The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Chali21 said:

I don’t think Carr wants to be traded to another team. I think when the Raiders are done with him he’s going to be done with football. He’s a big time family man, I don’t think he wants to move his family to another state so soon. His faith is pretty important to he’s very active in his church(mods I’m not trying to promote religious talk) and I think he wants to be a pastor. He’s made over 100 million in the NFL, the dude doesn’t need the money. 

It probably depends on where he might get traded to. 

One thing you can't take away from him is that he loves football and wants to win. The state of the Raiders is far from 100% his fault. I think when push comes to shove, he'd play elsewhere....he just doesn't want to as long as he's a Raider. 

The right team, he probably gives it a shot. Or he could pull a Jake Plummer type of move and walk away. I don't think he's down to uproot and go across the country though, so the realistic options are probably pretty limited. 

Seattle (increasingly doubtful), San Francisco (highly doubtful at this point though), LA Rams?, Arizona if they ditch Murray, maaaaybe he makes a concession if he's shipped to a legit likely contender like Tampa or something, but I sort of doubt it. 

 

[big_palooka]

6 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Ah yes the COVID year where he took over someone else's defense before running it into the ground. 

Inherited a defense that ranked bottom half of the league in 2019 and turned them into a top 10 unit adding only Bradbury and Martinez. 

[ronjon1990]

3 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Inherited a defense that ranked bottom half of the league in 2019 and turned them into a top 10 unit adding only Bradbury and Martinez. 

One hit wonders are a helluva drug. 

It got A Deep Blue Something into the Rock Hall of Fame 🤷🏼‍♂️

[big_palooka]

9 minutes ago, true2form said:

Looks like most people are ready for a lateral move at best next year.  I have a tough time choosing any lateral move.  An extra 1st round pick and say 10-20 mil cap savings would help though.

Carr hasn't made it easy on me this year, but I still think our best chance at success next year, is with him as our QB.

If we are throwing in the towel on next year already, then that's a different approach and I'd be ok with that. Not sure how the team will react to it though. Any of the choices to replace Carr do not signal we are shooting for even the playoffs next year, Brady included.

Trying to upgrade next year is unrealistic. I think most understand that. You hope to get cheaper and build a better overall team with a stop gap.

A rookie QB may not be an upgrade and may not pan out at all.... but that is a sandbox you eventually have to play in.

You cannot continue to this "he's not the problem, but not the solution" thing with Derek Carr.

[big_palooka]

2 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

One hit wonders are a helluva drug. 

It got A Deep Blue Something into the Rock Hall of Fame 🤷🏼‍♂️

Or alternatively, he's been on some bad teams with mediocre talent.  If they get some legit talent to work with and the results are still middling, then you know and you move on. 

I'm just tired of the "fire the DC" stance with the Raider fans every year when they have had legit bottom league talent for 2 decades now. 

 

[Devilshark69]

I agree, and wouldn’t mind stidham, stache and maybe ur boy nix as a later round development type. If it doesn’t work out tip top, then I’m all in on 2024. If we can get the right pieces this offseason or at least 75% of them (not all fa’s and picks will pan out) I’d definitely sell the farm so to speak for Williams or another top signal caller in 2024s draft. 

[IdigtheRaiders!]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

Trying to upgrade next year is unrealistic. I think most understand that. You hope to get cheaper and build a better overall team with a stop gap.

A rookie QB may not be an upgrade and may not pan out at all.... but that is a sandbox you eventually have to play in.

You cannot continue to this "he's not the problem, but not the solution" thing with Derek Carr.

     Does that change if Carr agrees to a pay-cut, or are you fully on the “Time For A New QB” train?

     It seems pretty obvious that there will be a new signal-caller under center by 2025 (at the latest). I’m just still of the opinion that we’re better off sticking with Carr for the rest of his contract (preferably restructured) and seeing if Year 2 and 3 in McDaniels’ offense and a better O-line reap dividends while also improving the defense (so we have an overall improved team for when we finally do pass the torch at QB).

[bucksavage1]

55 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Same time, he's a competitor and may not want to go out this way. 

But the constant negativity around him maybe he decides it's not worth it any longer. 

There’s some teams that believe we are a dysfunctional organization and getting a player with us a new scenery could change them

 

There will be teams kicking the tires on Carr for the next few seasons

Edited December 27, 2022 by bucksavage1

[Bitty 2.0]

51 minutes ago, IdigtheRaiders! said:

     Does that change if Carr agrees to a pay-cut, or are you fully on the “Time For A New QB” train?

     It seems pretty obvious that there will be a new signal-caller under center by 2025 (at the latest). I’m just still of the opinion that we’re better off sticking with Carr for the rest of his contract (preferably restructured) and seeing if Year 2 and 3 in McDaniels’ offense and a better O-line reap dividends while also improving the defense (so we have an overall improved team for when we finally do pass the torch at QB).

You're delusional if you think Josh is not getting fired next year.

[Darbsk]

52 minutes ago, IdigtheRaiders! said:

     Does that change if Carr agrees to a pay-cut, or are you fully on the “Time For A New QB” train?

     It seems pretty obvious that there will be a new signal-caller under center by 2025 (at the latest). I’m just still of the opinion that we’re better off sticking with Carr for the rest of his contract (preferably restructured) and seeing if Year 2 and 3 in McDaniels’ offense and a better O-line reap dividends while also improving the defense (so we have an overall improved team for when we finally do pass the torch at QB).

Carrs cap hit changes a lot to me. Right now, he’s not playing up to his pay status, simple as that.  As others have rightly said, that limits other position on the team. I’m not really that knowledgeable with regards to cap hits etc. but I think Carr has a cap hit of around $35m next year and If we can restructure or he’ll come back for around 20 to 25 then that would be much more palatable moving forward. He would be payed like a mid level QB and you can build up a team around that, then if he succeeds great or if not you can move on and draft a rookie into a solid team and situation.

[big_palooka]

12 minutes ago, IdigtheRaiders! said:

     Does that change if Carr agrees to a pay-cut, or are you fully on the “Time For A New QB” train?

     It seems pretty obvious that there will be a new signal-caller under center by 2025 (at the latest). I’m just still of the opinion that we’re better off sticking with Carr for the rest of his contract (preferably restructured) and seeing if Year 2 and 3 in McDaniels’ offense and a better O-line reap dividends while also improving the defense (so we have an overall improved team for when we finally do pass the torch at QB).

I'm on the train. I like Carr, but 9 years in I know what I am getting. It's always two steps forward, one back with Carr. He's regressed in this offense and it feels time, finally, for a fresh start.

I will always maintain you can win with Carr, but not because of Carr. And for me, in the QB stacked AFC you need to do more. The roster has to improve and that takes resources. The kind you get trading a QB of Carr's caliber. 

He'll be 32 next season, seems to be regressing in accuracy. Provides next to no ability to make plays off script and plays small in the pocket. Is his best football already behind him at this point.... maybe? You can make the argument. 

I will say, I'm not advocating "anyone but Carr". I'd like to see a thought out plan for succession. He's meant a lot to the franchise and it's a shame they didn't capitalize on building a better team through the draft around him all these years.

[Devilshark69]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I'm on the train. I like Carr, but 9 years in I know what I am getting. It's always two steps forward, one back with Carr. He's regressed in this offense and it feels time, finally, for a fresh start.

I will always maintain you can win with Carr, but not because of Carr. And for me, in the QB stacked AFC you need to do more. The roster has to improve and that takes resources. The kind you get trading a QB of Carr's caliber. 

He'll be 32 next season, seems to be regressing in accuracy. Provides next to no ability to make plays off script and plays small in the pocket. Is his best football already behind him at this point.... maybe? You can make the argument. 

I will say, I'm not advocating "anyone but Carr". I'd like to see a thought out plan for succession. He's meant a lot to the franchise and it's a shame they didn't capitalize on building a better team through the draft around him all these years.

I may not agree on the coach thing with you, but this is kinda exactly where I sit with Carr. When I actually saw that last int, I was pissed. He had the chance and blew donkey on that throw. He gambled on himself with the way the contract was set up. And I believe that put additional pressure in his mind. He seems like that kinda guy. Love his heart (people called him a coward when he played 2 wks after breaking a bone in his back SMH X 100, never misses games) but I hate his head (pocket presence, happy feet etc) if he does retire, thank you Derek!!! 

[bucksavage1]

We need a new QB. Carr is the longest Tenure AFC QB and has no playoff wins. Time to reset and try something else

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Or alternatively, he's been on some bad teams with mediocre talent.  If they get some legit talent to work with and the results are still middling, then you know and you move on. 

I'm just tired of the "fire the DC" stance with the Raider fans every year when they have had legit bottom league talent for 2 decades now. 

 

Only alternatively of we're in an alternate reality where that was the case. But it hasn't been. The evidence has been presented ad-nauseum that defenses/units have fallen off with him and improved upon his departure. If you don't want to acknowledge that, that's up to you- but it doesn't make it not the case. 

We're ALL tired of firing the DC. That doesn't excuse mediocrity or routinely bad play calling. We shouldn't keep a DC around just for the sake of doing so. Graham was a disappointing hire, not unlike when we ditched our old OC for Todd Downing a few years back. We should have either gone for a slam dunk hire at DC, retained an equally as mediocre but personnel fitting Gus, or hired a first time DC that one could reasonably argue has room to grow.

This isn't Graham's first time around the block. Or his second. It's his third in practically as many years, none of which times ended particularly optimistically or with much cause to try and retain his services for anything beyond simply not bringing someone else in. I've even said I'd be willing to give McDaniels a pass on some things if he cut Graham loose, as it's his second time around the block and his first was a career's worth of time ago. Graham has coattailed Patriots assistants practically his entire career and has managed to fail upwards. 

It's ironic that in a thread where people are saying "we know what we're getting with Carr and he should be cut loose" despite not knowing at all that we'd actually improve without him that some would still defend Graham tooth and nail despite his history where it was obvious what teams got with him AND improved afterwards without him.

One DC has failed elsewhere and his prior teams got better once he left. 

One DC has only "failed" here and there's no evidence to back a claim we'd improve without him. 

[ronjon1990]

19 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

We need a new QB. Carr is the longest Tenure AFC QB and has no playoff wins. Time to reset and try something else

I just hope we don't go with Brady. It seems utterly pointless to do so other than to satisfy a real life fan fiction. 

At worst, or best?, we have awful QB play and spend another year in the basement during some of our best assests' primes.

At best, or worst?, he plays like 1 year and wins too much to have us in a good draft slot for a QBOTF.