MrOaktown_56 Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: I just hope we don't go with Brady. It seems utterly pointless to do so other than to satisfy a real life fan fiction. At worst, or best?, we have awful QB play and spend another year in the basement during some of our best assests' primes. At best, or worst?, he plays like 1 year and wins too much to have us in a good draft slot for a QBOTF. I think if you take Brady, you have to draft a qb in round 1 to sit behind him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 IMHO it has to be Brady the more you think about it. Of the qb's who are available, the only one who I feel will be a clear upgrade over 2nd year in the system Carr (with all the weapons) is Brady. But if Brady has protection and cooks, he could be a BIG upgrade. Like a make a deep run in the playoffs upgrade. I'm not a huge fan of the rest of the available qb's, though I'd prefer Minshew/Brisett if we go that way, assuming we look into drafting a qb regardless. Richardson would be the qb I want if we draft one because his mobility is nuts. Young/Stroud won't be there. The 2024 qb class is also very good so I could see a scenario where they load up on defense, get a vet qb like Brady and do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I think if you take Brady, you have to draft a qb in round 1 to sit behind him. Question becomes who and at what cost? I'm just not a fan of Young or Stroud at all. Levis needs more than a year, but the potential is there. The rest of the class for now really doesn't impress me at all. And we're boxed out of the top few picks for now unless we use extra assets to move up....and we need more work than just a QB. 2024's class looks excellent, which is part of why Brady scares me at his age. If we knew we'd have 2-3 years, totally different ballgame. Fwiw, I'd feel the same if we were talking about Aaron Rodgers, and I've been a Rodgers superfan since his early Cal days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: Trying to upgrade next year is unrealistic. I think most understand that. You hope to get cheaper and build a better overall team with a stop gap. A rookie QB may not be an upgrade and may not pan out at all.... but that is a sandbox you eventually have to play in. You cannot continue to this "he's not the problem, but not the solution" thing with Derek Carr. I think some understand that. Some think anyone will be an upgrade. I'm ok with moving on from Carr, but I've accepted the fact that we will most likely suck for years to come. I'm 51% one more year and 49% roll the dice at this point. We are probably screwed either way. Maybe we get lucky, but the odds are clearly against every team drafting a young QB and there doesn't appear to be a vet that would change anything. Whatever we do, all I can hope for is it's the right move. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 6 hours ago, SimonGruber said: Is he more expensive ? I’m looking at his current deal 15 mil sounds like a bargain. I’m not saying he’s the only choice problem is he moves worse than Carr does in the pocket at 45 years old. Next year's cap hits are nearly identical. I would just personally want to stay away. Not sure why anyone would want him to be honest assuming they've seen him play this year. Pretty much on par with Carr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 6 hours ago, BayRaider said: You’re right, but the problem is you said this exact thing in 2020 which is laughable. I said Brady was regressing in 2020? Is that what you're saying here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 20 minutes ago, true2form said: I think some understand that. Some think anyone will be an upgrade. I'm ok with moving on from Carr, but I've accepted the fact that we will most likely suck for years to come. I'm 51% one more year and 49% roll the dice at this point. We are probably screwed either way. Maybe we get lucky, but the odds are clearly against every team drafting a young QB and there doesn't appear to be a vet that would change anything. Whatever we do, all I can hope for is it's the right move. Odds are we spend the next few years in the basement for sure. Good/Great QB to Good/Great QB play just doesn't happen all that often. If we're ditching Carr, we really may as well try and move Adams and another older but valuable player or two after next season too unless we catch lightning in a bottle somehow. No point in keeping aging cap restricting players for a rebuild. It's too bad the Lions seem fairly intent on keeping Goff going forward. He's a guy I'd like to bring on board. Jimmy wouldn't be a terrible option, though I'm not entirely sure he'd be an upgrade by any metric other than being cheaper. I'd feel better about keeping guys and going the "ease into the future" route if we could bring someone in that isn't JUST there to keep the seat warm for a year or two. There's no reason we can't be competitive while rebuilding if we do it right. The options for doing it right are really pretty limited though. Most of the good QBs are either locked up long term or otherwise will be. Goff's likely off the table. Jimmy should be available. Brissett isn't a horrible option, but uninspiring. Brady is a no-go for me. Kirk probably isn't going anywhere. Mariota isn't an upgrade. Tannehill is washed. Rodgers costs too much. Minshew may be a sneaky option. Unfortunately there's just no Alex Smith come in and do the job type around right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I think if you take Brady, you have to draft a qb in round 1 to sit behind him. I think if you go that route you have to go all in and take someone that projects as an immediate impact player at a position of need. We’ve seen multiple high profile QBs change teams over the past couple of years . If Brady is only around for a year we can go after a QB again the following off-season. The QBs that have had success with teams that drafted them or acquired them are ones that went to teams that already had talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I think if you go that route you have to go all in and take someone that projects as an immediate impact player at a position of need. We’ve seen multiple high profile QBs change teams over the past couple of years . If Brady is only around for a year we can go after a QB again the following off-season. The QBs that have had success with teams that drafted them or acquired them are ones that went to teams that already had talent Fair enough. I can see that as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Year 1 in a new system= rebuilding year… only thing I see happening is a defense and OL get improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: I just hope we don't go with Brady. It seems utterly pointless to do so other than to satisfy a real life fan fiction. At worst, or best?, we have awful QB play and spend another year in the basement during some of our best assests' primes. At best, or worst?, he plays like 1 year and wins too much to have us in a good draft slot for a QBOTF. Brady would never come to a team that has been a dumpster fire for over 20 years and has not shown to take a step out of the swamp this year. With inferior talent across the board no way Brady takes the chance of ending his career on this **** burger roster. it will never happen. Uneducated homer fans talking nonsense is all this speculative garbage is. It downright laughable to think a legend will come to this dumpster fire team that needs to be rebuilt at nearly every level. As for Carr, he has not looked good this year, there is no denying that. Many can speculate as to why but from my perspective a few things stick out. Has Carr forgotten to play at a high level? Highly unlikely. One of his biggest critics on this forum had him listed as a top 10 fantasy QB during the preseason... He clearly believed the talent was there! JM's scheme and game plan have not allowed Carr to get into a rhythm for all 4 quarters. It seems like he starts out in a rhythm, we jump out to an lead then JM goes ultra conservative/heavy run. If Jacobs is not running wild the whole O is out of wack and JM refuses to make the proper adjustments, especially after halftime. DC Passer rating by half: 1st and 2nd half 2016: 90/92 Musgrave 2017: 89/80 Downing 2018: 90/80 Gruden 2019 109/92 Gruden 2020 110/92 Gruden 2021 90/98 Olson 2022 97/73 McD JM and DZ didn't come here to dump Carr after one year no matter what the talking head stooges or idiotic fans think. The risk is much too great unless an upgrade is staring them in the face and at this point I do not see a legit one. If we move on from Carr as the tv stooges suggest the risk of failure for our current regime is increased exponentially. It's easy for fans to sit back and point the finger at Carr when they don't have millions on the line like JM and DZ do. Let's say we move on from Carr, sign a stopgap bum , with our current talent on this roster we are a 4 win team. With 4 wins next year JM is for sure fired and DZ could very well be on the chopping block also. With our bottom 3 D there are no stopgaps that could win us more than 5 games also FA's won't want to sign with a franchise that has been the laughing stock of the league for over 20 years, lacks talent and depth, and now has a stop gap bum as the QB. We will have to overpay for mediocre talent which is one of the main reasons we are in the situation we are currently in and have been in for over 20 years. Also consider the media/fan reaction if we move on from Carr, win 4 games with a stopgap, Carr goes to the Jets and wins a playoff game. Instant firing for JM and DZ. The perception will be that Carr has had the talent but the coaching and overall lack of surrounding talent has let him down. That is not a good look.... I am all for drafting a young QB if there is a legit stud on the board, I am also for drafting a project Qb later in the draft, letting them sit until we know what we have but moving on from Carr just to do so without a plan in place is downright foolish for JM and DZ. The risk is much too great and DC was one of the main reasons they signed here as DC has been as stable as they come despite multiple coaching changes on teams that have had very little talent. I don't see many scenarios where JM/DZ can move on from Carr and win enough games next year to still be employed in Vegas. With their reputations and millions on the line I don't see them taking a foolish risk like that. If they can win 8 games next year they most likely will get a chance for a 3rd year. If they win 4 to 6 they are fired... With a stopgap the 4 to 6 win scenario is highly probable. It's that simple. Edited December 28, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdigtheRaiders! Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 I’m more-or-less on the same wavelength as @Frankie2Gunzconcerning Carr. The end is definitely approaching — but there’s a danger in jumping the gun too quickly without a plan in place, as@big_palooka has stated. There’s another point staring us in the face as well: Would Ziegler spend two high draft picks bringing in Davante to play with his BFF just to get rid of Davante’s BFF the following season? If anyone thinks Adams is gonna be perfectly okay with saying goodbye to Carr, that’s your right — but the burden of proof is entirely on you. We all know this is McDaniels’ last shot at a HC job — do we really think he’s gonna make the Jay Cutler decision all over again and completely alienate yet another locker room (because like it or not, Carr is still popular within the Raiders organization)? McDaniels may be maddeningly stubborn, but I doubt he’s that stupid. He realizes he’ll need to find a clear upgrade AND sell it to the locker room all in one offseason. IDK if that’s possible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 9 hours ago, true2form said: I think some understand that. Some think anyone will be an upgrade. I'm ok with moving on from Carr, but I've accepted the fact that we will most likely suck for years to come. I'm 51% one more year and 49% roll the dice at this point. We are probably screwed either way. Maybe we get lucky, but the odds are clearly against every team drafting a young QB and there doesn't appear to be a vet that would change anything. Whatever we do, all I can hope for is it's the right move. Disagree with this, the problem is you guys still over value Carr, the only thing Carr has at this point is a talented arm, you underestimate what a so called less talented QB who has better field vision, awareness and does the little things could do with all the weapons we have on offense. Add a couple of OL, keep Jacobs, bring in a gamer like Minshew for much cheaper, still draft a QB the offense will be what we envisioned 24-30 points a game. Invest everything else to defense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 8 hours ago, raidr4life said: Disagree with this, the problem is you guys still over value Carr, the only thing Carr has at this point is a talented arm, you underestimate what a so called less talented QB who has better field vision, awareness and does the little things could do with all the weapons we have on offense. Add a couple of OL, keep Jacobs, bring in a gamer like Minshew for much cheaper, still draft a QB the offense will be what we envisioned 24-30 points a game. Invest everything else to defense. And I disagree that any old below average QB, who no one in the league wants to start, is the answer for anything more than they already are. A spark off the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 14 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Brady would never come to a team that has been a dumpster fire for over 20 years and has not shown to take a step out of the swamp this year. With inferior talent across the board no way Brady takes the chance of ending his career on this **** burger roster. it will never happen. Uneducated homer fans talking nonsense is all this speculative garbage is. It downright laughable to think a legend will come to this dumpster fire team that needs to be rebuilt at nearly every level. As for Carr, he has not looked good this year, there is no denying that. Many can speculate as to why but from my perspective a few things stick out. Has Carr forgotten to play at a high level? Highly unlikely. One of his biggest critics on this forum had him listed as a top 10 fantasy QB during the preseason... He clearly believed the talent was there! JM's scheme and game plan have not allowed Carr to get into a rhythm for all 4 quarters. It seems like he starts out in a rhythm, we jump out to an lead then JM goes ultra conservative/heavy run. If Jacobs is not running wild the whole O is out of wack and JM refuses to make the proper adjustments, especially after halftime. DC Passer rating by half: 1st and 2nd half 2016: 90/92 Musgrave 2017: 89/80 Downing 2018: 90/80 Gruden 2019 109/92 Gruden 2020 110/92 Gruden 2021 90/98 Olson 2022 97/73 McD JM and DZ didn't come here to dump Carr after one year no matter what the talking head stooges or idiotic fans think. The risk is much too great unless an upgrade is staring them in the face and at this point I do not see a legit one. If we move on from Carr as the tv stooges suggest the risk of failure for our current regime is increased exponentially. It's easy for fans to sit back and point the finger at Carr when they don't have millions on the line like JM and DZ do. Let's say we move on from Carr, sign a stopgap bum , with our current talent on this roster we are a 4 win team. With 4 wins next year JM is for sure fired and DZ could very well be on the chopping block also. With our bottom 3 D there are no stopgaps that could win us more than 5 games also FA's won't want to sign with a franchise that has been the laughing stock of the league for over 20 years, lacks talent and depth, and now has a stop gap bum as the QB. We will have to overpay for mediocre talent which is one of the main reasons we are in the situation we are currently in and have been in for over 20 years. Also consider the media/fan reaction if we move on from Carr, win 4 games with a stopgap, Carr goes to the Jets and wins a playoff game. Instant firing for JM and DZ. The perception will be that Carr has had the talent but the coaching and overall lack of surrounding talent has let him down. That is not a good look.... I am all for drafting a young QB if there is a legit stud on the board, I am also for drafting a project Qb later in the draft, letting them sit until we know what we have but moving on from Carr just to do so without a plan in place is downright foolish for JM and DZ. The risk is much too great and DC was one of the main reasons they signed here as DC has been as stable as they come despite multiple coaching changes on teams that have had very little talent. I don't see many scenarios where JM/DZ can move on from Carr and win enough games next year to still be employed in Vegas. With their reputations and millions on the line I don't see them taking a foolish risk like that. If they can win 8 games next year they most likely will get a chance for a 3rd year. If they win 4 to 6 they are fired... With a stopgap the 4 to 6 win scenario is highly probable. It's that simple. Not a jmd fan but I think jmd wanted to see if carr could throw in intense cold weather…and he got his answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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