The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[jimkelly02]

17 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Let's stick to football. Otherwise, some good banter in here. Continue to keep it clean everyone.

Sorry, 10-4

[jimkelly02]

6 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Does anyone else here think that Carr trying to bulk up has caused him some problems.  

He does look more muscular now.  Is it a case of him bulking up during the offseason and slowly losing it during TC and the season, which happens with a lot of guys, or has he continuously bulked up?

When did he first bulk up, was it after the back injury?

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

He does look more muscular now.  Is it a case of him bulking up during the offseason and slowly losing it during TC and the season, which happens with a lot of guys, or has he continuously bulked up?

When did he first bulk up, was it after the back injury?

I think he started after the broken leg.  He looks 20+ pounds heavier than he did at the combine.  Based off of my personal experience when I put on muscle weight the wrong way it has had a huge negative impact on my athletic ability and stamina.  Now I am just old so I have an excuse.  I remember Amari doing the same thing around the same time and it appeared to have a negative impact on his play also.  I know you get bigger thru your early mid twenties but I do not know a lot of QBs that have tried to put on muscle like Carr has.

[Totty]

5 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I think he started after the broken leg.  He looks 20+ pounds heavier than he did at the combine.  Based off of my personal experience when I put on muscle weight the wrong way it has had a huge negative impact on my athletic ability and stamina.  Now I am just old so I have an excuse.  I remember Amari doing the same thing around the same time and it appeared to have a negative impact on his play also.  I know you get bigger thru your early mid twenties but I do not know a lot of QBs that have tried to put on muscle like Carr has.

Brady Quinn comes to mind.  How'd that turn out? Lol.  

[jimkelly02]

12 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I think he started after the broken leg.  He looks 20+ pounds heavier than he did at the combine.  Based off of my personal experience when I put on muscle weight the wrong way it has had a huge negative impact on my athletic ability and stamina.  Now I am just old so I have an excuse.  I remember Amari doing the same thing around the same time and it appeared to have a negative impact on his play also.  I know you get bigger thru your early mid twenties but I do not know a lot of QBs that have tried to put on muscle like Carr has.

I don’t think he’s 20+ pounds heavier.... but maybe I’m wrong.... he just doesn’t look THAT much bigger to me.  Max 20lbs IM0 (there’s a reason I’m splitting hairs)

The more weight he adds it’s inevitable the more agility he loses.

I think it’s most likely, and I say this as a guess, a two part Reasoning.

1) he naturally just added 7-10 pounds to his frame while he was injured and rehabbing.... and he’s kept it on.... cuz like you said he’s at the age where it’s easiest to add muscle.

2). He bulked up 7-10 pounds in the offseason by a lot lifting and doing little cardio..... but not as he prepares for the season the cardio will go up and half that muscle will be gone by the end of camp.  A lot of guys do this because they fear the loss of muscle throughout the season. When they come into camp 15lbs bigger they do so knowing that half of it or more will be gone by the end Of camp.

[G]

12 hours ago, drfrey13 said:I do not know a lot of QBs that have tried to put on muscle like Carr has.

McNabb did and I think it hurt his accuracy. Carr went from skinny with muscles to more bulky and now has matured that bulk. Not saying PEDs but the difference between A bulker  and a shredder. 

[raidr4life]

Some of us have said exactly this.

[drfrey13]

15 hours ago, G said:

McNabb did and I think it hurt his accuracy. Carr went from skinny with muscles to more bulky and now has matured that bulk. Not saying PEDs but the difference between A bulker  and a shredder. 

He has a similar body type to Mcnabb but McNabb was a lot more compact and heavier.  It might have not hurt him but I think history would show that certain positions loss needed abilities with bulking.

[jimkelly02]

Josh Dubrow is the most negative “fan” ever.  The guys a whining “Carr Sucks” baby.  Every single thing that guy says is about Carr sucking..... it’s to the point I think Carr must have bullied him in HS or stolen his gf in 8th grade.

Some of the facts he quotes are fair but a lot of them are manipulations of stats to fit his agenda.

[Darbsk]

11 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Some of us have said exactly this.

To be frank, he's a conservative QB by nature, playing in a Westcoast offence designed for lots of short, quick throws and to get targets the ball quickly and relatively open and with a receiving core where his best option was a rookie poor man's version of Danny Amendola, genuinely what did we expect?

For most of the year I thought we stayed ahead of the chains, limited big mistakes and were pretty efficient until our best pieces starting going down. With even an average D we would gave been in the playoffs. I'd be absolutely fine being ranked plumb last in either of those categories so long as the production is there, we're moving the chains and scoring enough points to win. 

I know this is meant as a slight on Carr obviously but put in proper context I think its to be expected. We should improve a little on that this year but just because we drafted Ruggs won't mean we'll be dropping 40 yard bombs every other pass, expect Ruggs to get a lot of quick slants, bubble screens and short throws to try to get YAC. People expecting Daryl Lamonica are going to be disappointed 😁😁  IMHO The important thing in the design of the offense is the efficiency. 😀

[MrOaktown_56]

It's incredible that Dubow is bringing up points scored without bringing up penalties. Its not like we didn't lead the league in those or close to it in the last 4 years.

[raidr4life]

5 hours ago, Darbsk said:

To be frank, he's a conservative QB by nature, playing in a Westcoast offence designed for lots of short, quick throws and to get targets the ball quickly and relatively open and with a receiving core where his best option was a rookie poor man's version of Danny Amendola, genuinely what did we expect?

For most of the year I thought we stayed ahead of the chains, limited big mistakes and were pretty efficient until our best pieces starting going down. With even an average D we would gave been in the playoffs. I'd be absolutely fine being ranked plumb last in either of those categories so long as the production is there, we're moving the chains and scoring enough points to win. 

I know this is meant as a slight on Carr obviously but put in proper context I think its to be expected. We should improve a little on that this year but just because we drafted Ruggs won't mean we'll be dropping 40 yard bombs every other pass, expect Ruggs to get a lot of quick slants, bubble screens and short throws to try to get YAC. People expecting Daryl Lamonica are going to be disappointed 😁😁  IMHO The important thing in the design of the offense is the efficiency. 😀

To be frank if he keeps it up we won't win with him, nobody ever said he needs bombs away, but you have to make tight window throws and stretch the field sometimes, he used to do it now seems afraid to. I mean he's virtually last, people can keep blaming weapons, but i don't buy into that. People think Aaron Rodgers 4th and 5th WR's are actually good because he actually throws to them gives them a chance to make plays, hell we even signed one of them and he's gone now, my point give guy's a chance sometime, even if they won't become household names.

[Darbsk]

21 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

To be frank if he keeps it up we won't win with him, nobody ever said he needs bombs away, but you have to make tight window throws and stretch the field sometimes, he used to do it now seems afraid to. I mean he's virtually last, people can keep blaming weapons, but i don't buy into that. People think Aaron Rodgers 4th and 5th WR's are actually good because he actually throws to them gives them a chance to make plays, hell we even signed one of them and he's gone now, my point give guy's a chance sometime, even if they won't become household names.

I dont disagree with a lot of that, we've seen Carr throw laser guided missiles down the seam which are just beautiful but I think the Bill Musgrave offense is very different from Chuckies Westcoast offense.

I'd like to see more aggression (both from play calling and from Carr) but to say we wont win is categorically wrong, we did win last year whilst playing very conservative with a terrible receiving core, if we upgrade the receivers which we've theoretically done, upgrade the defence which we've theoretically done and have a few less key player injuries then that 7-9 should turn into at least a 9-7. We were vying for playoffs last year until the last 3 weeks when the wheels came off due primarily to lack of depth and injuries at critical positions.

Other teams have theoretically improved aswell for sure but we should be a good  20% better as a team so even if Carr plays the same we should at least be in the running for the playoffs, I cant really see a way we've gotten worse. 😀

[drfrey13]

On 7/10/2020 at 8:20 AM, Darbsk said:

To be frank, he's a conservative QB by nature, playing in a Westcoast offence designed for lots of short, quick throws and to get targets the ball quickly and relatively open and with a receiving core where his best option was a rookie poor man's version of Danny Amendola, genuinely what did we expect?

For most of the year I thought we stayed ahead of the chains, limited big mistakes and were pretty efficient until our best pieces starting going down. With even an average D we would gave been in the playoffs. I'd be absolutely fine being ranked plumb last in either of those categories so long as the production is there, we're moving the chains and scoring enough points to win. 

I know this is meant as a slight on Carr obviously but put in proper context I think its to be expected. We should improve a little on that this year but just because we drafted Ruggs won't mean we'll be dropping 40 yard bombs every other pass, expect Ruggs to get a lot of quick slants, bubble screens and short throws to try to get YAC. People expecting Daryl Lamonica are going to be disappointed 😁😁  IMHO The important thing in the design of the offense is the efficiency. 😀

First paragraph I think you forgot about Waller and Williams.  I know Williams got hurt but he still out produced Renfrow.

Second paragraph is the reason why I wanted to go hard after Hyde.  We were 1-5 when we were with out Jacobs or he rushed for less than 70 yards.  The 1 win was against the Chargers and our defense held them to under 300 yards.  The D should be vastly improved.  I would not mind seeing Clowney or a reliable 3T but they should not be at least an average unit this year if they gel.  Big if with no off season.   I expect a struggle the first quarter of the season.

Third paragraph I understand your point but I do think when Carr panics he switches from where do I need to go to where can I go right now.  Carr and Gruden both need to step it up before they get Renfrow killed.  Renfrow is a good cerebral slot WR that always knows where the sticks are and that helps Carr out because he does not but you can not run the same play all the time.  3rd down you know Renfrow is the 2nd or 3rd option and Carr is coming back to him at the sticks because he will not allow other routes to develop or throw open his primary WRs.  This is also part of the reason why he will stare down his primary WR.  He does not trust and has to see the WR win to pull the trigger.  Trust your WR is going to win, know where they will be, look the coverage away, and then come back at the last moment.  I do not know why he does not do this more often. 

[Darbsk]

23 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

First paragraph I think you forgot about Waller and Williams.  I know Williams got hurt but he still out produced Renfrow.

Second paragraph is the reason why I wanted to go hard after Hyde.  We were 1-5 when we were with out Jacobs or he rushed for less than 70 yards.  The 1 win was against the Chargers and our defense held them to under 300 yards.  The D should be vastly improved.  I would not mind seeing Clowney or a reliable 3T but they should not be at least an average unit this year if they gel.  Big if with no off season.   I expect a struggle the first quarter of the season.

Third paragraph I understand your point but I do think when Carr panics he switches from where do I need to go to where can I go right now.  Carr and Gruden both need to step it up before they get Renfrow killed.  Renfrow is a good cerebral slot WR that always knows where the sticks are and that helps Carr out because he does not but you can not run the same play all the time.  3rd down you know Renfrow is the 2nd or 3rd option and Carr is coming back to him at the sticks because he will not allow other routes to develop or throw open his primary WRs.  This is also part of the reason why he will stare down his primary WR.  He does not trust and has to see the WR win to pull the trigger.  Trust your WR is going to win, know where they will be, look the coverage away, and then come back at the last moment.  I do not know why he does not do this more often. 

Lot of fair points, though I’m not a huge fan of Williams and with his nagging injury I thought by the last third of the season Renfrew was our best and most consistent wide receiver, probably should have said most trusted. Waller is our best overall receiver, would agree with that but then again probably because Carr force fed him the ball due to lack of WR options. I didn’t think his route running was that precise and I’m not sold yet on him being a top 5 TE like most seem to crown him, very similar production to Cook and Hopefully he keeps improving and will be a real top TE this season.

Trust is the big thing with Carr which can be seen as a positive and a negative, I wouldn’t want him just throwing it up there for the likes of Doss and Gafford too often Or just assuming they will be where they need to be as that is asking for trouble but you are right he has to let plays develop at times and not just bail into his safe checkdown option, totally agree there.  It’s about finding the balance for me and I think we get closer this year although Carr will always leave you wanting something.............