The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Sure, in your mind, Carr is a dog.... 

He is the furthest thing from a dog in the NFL. 

Also, nothing I said is untrue. Carr is not a tight-window thrower, never has been, this is why sometimes we get shutout like 48-6 or whatever, it's mostly because Carr would see no one open, takes zero chances, and shuts down. 

His Pocket Presence is Below Average, that's always been true. Heck, that was in all of his scouting reports. If you want to make an argument his pocket presence is Average, I'll certainly entertain that, as it's not a bad argument. 

And Carr won't go deep unless a guy is open with lots of room to spare, and usually doesn't go deep more than once or twice a game. Dating back to college. Him being a dink and dunker (not in these exact words) was also in majority of his scouting reports. Just because you have a strong arm, doesn't mean you automatically have the tendency to play that way. 

Oh this how we got on the dog subject  lol

[BackinBlack]

3 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Lol wow you went all mama bear on me. I was just talking in general not pointing fingers at carr. I’ll break it down later after I absorb these 🍻 tho

Hahaha well it was all tying together 🤣

[BackinBlack]

11 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

This is the part that counts the most.

For sure.

I just don’t think our D keeps us in games enough, to give Carr that opportunity. Games spiral quickly when our O doesn’t score. 
although, a few games this season our D actually did their part (atl, ne) 
 

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

- treats every play like their job is on the line
So any QB who throws the ball away is not a dog? Doesnt Rodgers normally lead the league in throw aways?
If my job is on the line, and my coach is preaching live for the next play, I would take my coaches advice, because my job is on the line, so I am playing for him.
 

*******I meant well for a qb more aggressive vs nonchalant with your opportunities especially if you’re a seasoned vet. Can’t keep blaming gruden he’s getting the best out of carr lol. Does your chart show throwaways in the redzone? Winning keeps a job. Carr supposedly has full control. Crazy thought what if Carr’s been calling the audibles especially in the redzone? ******

- Major sense of urgency, I can def understand the frustration.
Carr is actually pretty solid in the 2 min drill, when he has to pass. . . I wish we saw it more. 

******urgency on and off the field especially personal development for example it took carr 6 years to figure out he needs two hands if he’s gonna stretch out esp around the goal line. Urgency with yours and others careers. A dog would be considered elite by his 5-6 year in the nfl *******

- Will to win - Carr loses a lot as a Raider, so this is just a way to discredit him. If we had a better record do you say this?
Carr fumbling out of bounds diving for the endzone, almost seems like a reckless player doing whatever it takes because they just want to win. . . 
 (yes i know he threw the ball away on 4th, when were down 3 scores, with 2 mins left lol)
People discard his TDs as Garbage time, I discard that play as garbage time lol
 

*******will to win also means being able to make people around you better. Also understand your responsibility as a qb and don’t leave the team hanging especially in the 10 that’s money time. Call people out establish standards elevate the level of intensity of the team I nonchalant qb = nonchalant team******

- Holding players accountable - I mean the guy has almost ever Raider reciever in Vegas working out the past two seasons. Again, I think you just dont like Carr and say that because we lose a lot. 
- 

*****dogs control the locker room...............esp the longest tenured vet.yea...playing catch in the park is cool but I’m sure midseason no body is talking about park days****

So to sum up, I think 2 out of your 4 points - can be said about any player on a losing team, not sure if that is fair.

Treating every play like your job is on the line  - Coaches preach live for the next down - if your job is on the line you would listen to your coach, no?

More urgency, I agree with though, would love to see it. 


 

 

[Darbsk]

Ok so 76 pages in has anyone actually changed their mind or been persuaded from one side of the fence to the other on Carr? 😁😁

[BackinBlack]

4 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Ok so 76 pages in has anyone actually changed their mind or been persuaded from one side of the fence to the other on Carr? 😁😁

haha doubtful, I do understand a lot of the frustration from the nay sayers though. 

Hopefully Carr steps up this year and plays out of his mind throughout the entire season. 

[BackinBlack]

@NCOUGHMAN getting to long so will just reply, but good post. 

I do think if Carr was audibling into poor play calls, it would really be p***ing Gruden off. 
But yes 100% agree that its not all on Gruden. 
Everyone on the O needs to figure out the redzone. Carr included, or putting Mariota in in the redzone. Why not at least try it? If Sean Peyton can take Brees out of a game for Hill, I think its ok for us to take Carr out for Mariota. All that matters is getting the TD. 

A dog is considered elite after 5-6 years - - ok so a Dog is an elite player. Carr is not a dog then. 
Very simple haha. Carr is not elite. 

I think Carr has made some players better, Nelly and Crabtree even Byron Jones all had good years here. 
But again agreed, I dont think he is the yell at you type. He is the put all the blame on himself type. 
I hate seeing himself on the sideline staring at his screen. Go talk to your WRs / TEs, RBs whoever. What do they see??

How many Dogs can be on a team?
This is Grudens team and esp Offensive, Carr doesnt butt heads with him, and I think Gruden likes that. 
But again, yes I dont see Carr as the rip someone for jumping offside type guy. Wish he were

[Jerry]

4 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Ok so 76 pages in has anyone actually changed their mind or been persuaded from one side of the fence to the other on Carr? 😁😁

Nope.  We all know what he is.  In our minds he can be ranked anywhere between a top 8 and top 24 QB.  It all depends on how you view his TD/INT/Fumble/Sack ratio.  Then we dive into his pocket awareness and ability to scramble.  Then you have the fans that demand he have a little hood/thug/dog in him.  Based upon the aforementioned metrics, each of us come to our own conclusions.  Each of us either think he is doing well, or that he is complete trash and probably wets his bed every night.  There is very few of us on the outskirts (saying he's top 3, bottom 3), but those psychopaths do exist.

I forgot to mention his W/L record.  Carr fans point to his TD/INTs.  Carr haters point towards his INTs and fumbles.  When Carr fans make a good argument, Carr haters point to his W/L record as their haymaker in the argument.  Then Carr fans throw their uppercut (crappy defense for the last 20 years).  Fun stuff.  A lot of back and forth violence in these threads.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Jerry

[NCOUGHMAN]

43 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

@NCOUGHMAN getting to long so will just reply, but good post. 

I do think if Carr was audibling into poor play calls, it would really be p***ing Gruden off. 
But yes 100% agree that its not all on Gruden. 
Everyone on the O needs to figure out the redzone. Carr included, or putting Mariota in in the redzone. Why not at least try it? If Sean Peyton can take Brees out of a game for Hill, I think its ok for us to take Carr out for Mariota. All that matters is getting the TD. 

A dog is considered elite after 5-6 years - - ok so a Dog is an elite player. Carr is not a dog then. 
Very simple haha. Carr is not elite. 

I think Carr has made some players better, Nelly and Crabtree even Byron Jones all had good years here. 
But again agreed, I dont think he is the yell at you type. He is the put all the blame on himself type. 
I hate seeing himself on the sideline staring at his screen. Go talk to your WRs / TEs, RBs whoever. What do they see??

How many Dogs can be on a team?
This is Grudens team and esp Offensive, Carr doesnt butt heads with him, and I think Gruden likes that. 
But again, yes I dont see Carr as the rip someone for jumping offside type guy. Wish he were

Good point with brees and hill.

I actually thinks gruden wants carr to butt heads with him. 
 

carr the longest tenured guy if he’s not getting in people’s faces nobody is and nobody is which we learned from nelly 

[BackinBlack]

25 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Good point with brees and hill.

I actually thinks gruden wants carr to butt heads with him. 
 

carr the longest tenured guy if he’s not getting in people’s faces nobody is and nobody is which we learned from nelly 

Yeah, I mean Gruden calls the play before seeing the D. 
A great play call, can be killed by the way a D lines up. Obviously Gruden should know the personal of the D, when calling a play, but it gets tricky. Carr has to audible out of plays more at the line. 

If you see no safety and 1 on 1 with Ruggs, audible out of whatever play call and take the shot. Even if it is a 10 yard out, you know the CB is turning to run with Ruggs. 

-
to the bold, for sure. 
But, when an Olineman jumps offside, I want to see Gruden bench him for a snap or two.
WR drops a ball, jumps offside benched for a play or two. 
DB blows a coverage benched. 
False start on 3rd and 1 benched. 
-

Maybe its because we dont have the depth, but, not a chance BB lets players make so many mental mistakes stay in a game in NE. 
If Carr is not the get in the people face leader, which I agree he is not, then Gruden needs to be harder on the team. 
This is supposed to be Grudens thing too. But he lets his favourites get away with mental mistakes. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

43 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Yeah, I mean Gruden calls the play before seeing the D. 
A great play call, can be killed by the way a D lines up. Obviously Gruden should know the personal of the D, when calling a play, but it gets tricky. Carr has to audible out of plays more at the line. 

If you see no safety and 1 on 1 with Ruggs, audible out of whatever play call and take the shot. Even if it is a 10 yard out, you know the CB is turning to run with Ruggs. 

-
to the bold, for sure. 
But, when an Olineman jumps offside, I want to see Gruden bench him for a snap or two.
WR drops a ball, jumps offside benched for a play or two. 
DB blows a coverage benched. 
False start on 3rd and 1 benched. 
-

Maybe its because we dont have the depth, but, not a chance BB lets players make so many mental mistakes stay in a game in NE. 
If Carr is not the get in the people face leader, which I agree he is not, then Gruden needs to be harder on the team. 
This is supposed to be Grudens thing too. But he lets his favourites get away with mental mistakes. 

I say the locker room is so vital to a team. I don’t know if you’ve played football but the locker room is were you see the dogs especially at halftime and after the game.

 

I vividly remember when I coached after a hard fought game that we lost. I was talking to coaches and I observed our huge lt pissed (150%dog) with his head down and another player (wr who dropped some important catches) approached him saying “cheer up we’ll get um next time” and they fought lol with the lt yelling “f next time you always say that sh you don’t know what’s gonna happen tonight or tomorrow etc etc” 

that woke the locker room tf up and very next week we dogg walked our opponents. Wr didn’t drop a pass rest of the year. Players gotta hold players accountable imo more than coaches. Hc have to hold their coaches accountable. Gotta have a strong locker room. 

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Jerry said:

a top 8 and top 24 QB. 

Pretty much this. 

When he plays well, man does he play well. Every now and then (aka: not consistent enough to use it as the base of opinion), he even flirts with top 5 caliber play (The Saints and first Chiefs games last year, for example) 

But when he doesn't play well, it can be brutal (Falcons game). 

I actually have trouble finding a good comparison for him in regards to consistency (or lack thereof). I can think of a handful of guys who have had a big game here and there along with some crap ones, but nobody who's total body of work always seems to he right on the cusp of solidifying a top 10 in the league status. 

[BackinBlack]

13 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I say the locker room is so vital to a team. I don’t know if you’ve played football but the locker room is were you see the dogs especially at halftime and after the game.

 

I vividly remember when I coached after a hard fought game that we lost. I was talking to coaches and I observed our huge lt pissed (150%dog) with his head down and another player (wr who dropped some important catches) approached him saying “cheer up we’ll get um next time” and they fought lol with the lt yelling “f next time you always say that sh you don’t know what’s gonna happen tonight or tomorrow etc etc” 

that woke the locker room tf up and very next week we dogg walked our opponents. Wr didn’t drop a pass rest of the year. Players gotta hold players accountable imo more than coaches. Hc have to hold their coaches accountable. Gotta have a strong locker room. 

so your 150% dog, was sitting with his head down, and wasnt going to do anything until spoken to?

I def agree that locker room chemistry is key. 
What if your WR was also a 'Dog' and the fight between the 2 caused 1 to just f it and leave the team?

Point being, if everyone in the locker room is a dog, there will be problems. 

But we can agree to disagree, because I think the jobs coach is to hold players accountable. A players job is to perform. 

As a coach yourself, Im surprised you dont think you need to hold your players accountable. 
You are saying that speech your LT gave woke up your team. . . 

That implies your team wasnt ready or awake/ up for that game. , that falls on you as a coach IMO

[NCOUGHMAN]

14 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

so your 150% dog, was sitting with his head down, and wasnt going to do anything until spoken to?

I def agree that locker room chemistry is key. 
What if your WR was also a 'Dog' and the fight between the 2 caused 1 to just f it and leave the team?

Point being, if everyone in the locker room is a dog, there will be problems. 

But we can agree to disagree, because I think the jobs coach is to hold players accountable. A players job is to perform. 

As a coach yourself, Im surprised you dont think you need to hold your players accountable. 
You are saying that speech your LT gave woke up your team. . . 

That implies your team wasnt ready or awake/ up for that game. , that falls on you as a coach IMO

He had his head down momentarily  cause he was pissed not cause he was sulking. 
 

the wr started out of depth issues lol this isn’t the nfl sometimes you have depth issues he had an extra casual personality.
 

And he did cost us the game and I have talked to him before but
 

****politics prevent coaches from being able to have heated interactions with players hence why players have to step up**** it’s not like when I grew up and coaches could basically grab you by your face mask and cuss you out Lolol oh no everyone is sensitive now.*****
 

the loss was on me I’m the hc so everything is my fault 

 

[BackinBlack]

48 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

He had his head down momentarily  cause he was pissed not cause he was sulking. 
 

the wr started out of depth issues lol this isn’t the nfl sometimes you have depth issues he had an extra casual personality.
 

And he did cost us the game and I have talked to him before but
 

****politics prevent coaches from being able to have heated interactions with players hence why players have to step up**** it’s not like when I grew up and coaches could basically grab you by your face mask and cuss you out Lolol oh no everyone is sensitive now.*****
 

the loss was on me I’m the hc so everything is my fault 

 

Hahah first, ill just say, I wasnt / didnt mean to come across as saying it was your fault. I am sure you are a great coach. Just ended up using your example, and then realized it kind of came off as an attack on you. Was not my intention. 

to first point, ah very fair. Read it as, he was sulking by himself and was thinking doesnt sound like a dog to me LOL.

But yes 100%, while you can relate to Gruden more than I can (ive never coached, maybe one day if I have a son who plays fb lol), It is still drastically different. 
Jon can still get into his players face. And I believe he does to some, and plays favourites to others. 

haha to the bold, 2 points;
1. werent we saying we hate hearing DC say stuff like ' im the qb so its my fault'' ???
2. I think in HS, there is only so much a coach can do at some point. Some games your just going to be clearly outmatched.