Raider 2020 UDFA signings

[Humble_Beast]

I don't think these guys have a team would be worth a look and from this side of the country

• Khalil Tate - RB/WR convert Arizona - sucks at QB but explosive athlete , only 21 
• David Woodward MLB- this should be a no brainer, our depth isn't great and he is a local kid.
• Darius  Jet Anderson RB
• Evan Greeneway T
• Josh Pearson WR  
• Dallas Warmack G Oregon 
• Frederick Mauigoa C
• TIM LYNOTT C
• Tipa Galeai DE - UTAH STATE
• Ron'Dell Carter DE
• Brendon Hayes DT
• Michael Pinckney MLB- give him a HUGE BONUS, he would make the team with starter potential
•  Chris Orr, MLB
•  Daniel Bituli MLB
• Dontavious Jackson MLB
• Keisean Lucier-South MLB UCLA
• Bryan London MLB
• Erroll Thompson MLB
• Michael Turk P
• Evan Foster S
• David Dowell S
• JARIUS MOREHEAD S
• Javon Hagan S
• Jaquarius Landry S
• Jaron Bryant CB

I know we don't have room but should sign 5 of these guys 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Humble_Beast

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

Erik Harris, Leavitt, Coney, WIlber and Eligwe are all on notice with Muse and this kid in camp.

Meh. I think Erik Harris is pretty much guaranteed a roster spot. Third year in Gunther's system, played in all 32 games the last two seasons (18 starts), and he was average in coverage and run support last season. We need a backup safety with some range and Harris can provide that. White/Muse are more so box players that will likely be full time LB's in the league so I agree Levitt and Wilbur's spots are at risk. 

[NYRaider]

54 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I know we don't have room but should sign 5 of these guys 

I think we're pretty much done with UDFA. Mayock said it himself that the reason they didn't look to add any 5th-7th round picks is because with the way the offseason is structured it's not realistic to expect those type of players to make the roster this year. When you look at our roster we're fairly deep across the board and it's unlikely that an UDFA would beat out one of the guys we already have for a roster spot. 

[NYRaider]

56 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I don't think these guys have a team would be worth a look and from this side of the country

• Khalil Tate - RB/WR convert Arizona - sucks at QB but explosive athlete , only 21 
• David Woodward MLB- this should be a no brainer, our depth isn't great and he is a local kid.
• Josh Pearson WR  
• Michael Pinckney MLB- give him a HUGE BONUS, he would make the team with starter potential
• Erroll Thompson MLB
• Michael Turk P
• Jaron Bryant CB

I know we don't have room but should sign 5 of these guys 

I'll just comment on the ones that you highlighted. I can't see Tate making the roster when we just spent a 3rd round pick on someone in the same role. I can't see any of the LB's making the team because we already have 5 guys on the roster that are locks plus guys like Coney and Wilbur competing for a 6th spot. No way an UDFA CB beats out the young guys we've brought in the last two off-seasons for a spot. And pretty much zero chance that an UDFA WR makes the team either. 

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

Dallas Warmack G Oregon 

I'd probably kick the tires. Highly recruited to Bama. Transferred. Talent is probably there somewhere. But I think we're set at guard unless we managed to move Gabe over the next few days. 

Unfortunately, we have a ton of tough cuts to make....now if only so many of them were actually talented or not redundant. We've got what  20 TE's? Lol

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I'd probably kick the tires. Highly recruited to Bama. Transferred. Talent is probably there somewhere. But I think we're set at guard unless we managed to move Gabe over the next few days. 

Plus he'd be competing with Lester Cotton and Andre James, who are both eligible for the PS, if IIRC.

[oakdb36]

We already signed a G. Kamaal Seymour from Rutgers.

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

I don't think these guys have a team would be worth a look and from this side of the country

• Erroll Thompson MLB

I know we don't have room but should sign 5 of these guys 

I wanted to get this kid also but I thought he decided to go back to Miss St.

[Mr Raider]

I'm not too worried about the lack of undrafted free agents. We are not a complete team at all. We have holes obviously. But what we currently really lack is star power. The depth of the overall team is night and day when compared to 2 years ago. We have a bunch of guys at almost every position that can be described as decent/solid starters. We don't have many guys you can look at and say he's among the best in the league at his position. You aren't finding that with undrafted free agents 99% of the time. When signing those guys you're looking to fill the role of depth at positions or high end special teams players maybe. I'm not saying that isn't important but when I look at our roster I don't see a ton of places where I see an undrafted guy beating the guy's we already have. 

Our most talented group is probably our OL. We have 3 starters I think you can say are among the best at their position in the NFL (Brown at RT, Incognito at LG, and Hudson at OC). Then you have a first round pick that grew a lot from year one to year two. A former pro bowler in Gabe Jackson who is being paid to play at that type of level. Behind those guys you just invested a 4th round pick in a Guard most thought was one of the best in the draft. A former similar pick in Sharpe who has played well when given opportunities and is at least a decent swing tackle, and a bunch of guys on the interior that played well when injuries could have killed our OL overall. 

At QB we have Carr who's paid to be a top 15 QB and certainly isn't getting beat out by an undrafted guy. And a former number 2 overall pick and highest paid backup. You could bring in a camp arm but really whats the point? You aren't finding your franchise QB or a better backup there. 

WR we invested heavily in this draft with our top pick, a gadget guy in the 3rd round that will play WR some, and the very next pick another 3rd round WR that a lot of people are high on and will see a ton of playing time. Then you have Williams who we just paid to be a top tier number 2 wideout, and a former first round pick that has had some good moments in the NFL and some bad, but isn't likely to get beat out by an undrafted guy. 

Running back is really the only position I see on offense where making signing an undrafted guy a priority to have a crack at being the second or third RB. And mainly that's because that's one position with a higher success rate at finding that. Jacobs is going to be fed early and often. Keeping him fresh and healthy will be important, but I think we have a genuine star in Jacobs at tail back. The team obviously see something they love in Bowden. He's going to get opportunities. Richard is a really good 3rd back. And there's always a handful of older vets capable of coming in to give Jacobs a breather. 

On defense I could see arguments made for targeting some guys at LB but we just paid 2 guys good to great money for the position to fill 2 starting spots. Plus invested a 3rd round pick in a guy to develop behind them. We could find someone in the undrafted market that could maybe beat out, or at least be comparable to guys like Morrow, Lee, etc. So I wouldn't be mad if we did. But I also don't think its anything to get upset about. I don't see anyway our LB core from starters to depth isn't much improved. Lee, Morrow and Wilber can hold down the SLB spot that will see like 30% of the snaps and depth IMO. 

Corner has a bunch of question marks but not for lack of investment of resources. We have a first round pick, a second round pick that showed a ton of promise as a rookie, a 4th round pick the team seemed to be very high on that has all the athletic tools, another 4th round pick that a lot of people think can have a positive impact in the slot this year, and that's only if a high paid free agent investment from a year ago continues to struggle. Is there possibly a guy we could find in the undrafted market that ends up being better than some of those guys? I mean maybe, but even the best teams are going to give the higher resources every chance to swim. And the questions with this position aren't likely to be answered with even more youth. 

Safety is pretty similar. Abrams is a first round pick. I absolutely love his potential. Randall is a starter in the NFL and he isn't paid a ton so it's not like he is the type of player you are willing to sacrifice slightly worse play for to save a bunch of money. Heath was just signed to a pretty sizable deal for a backup safety. And Harris has had his ups and downs and was an undrafted guy himself, so maybe. But I'm not sure there are a bunch of guys out there that are going to come in undrafted and play better in him, especially with a shortened offseason. 

Defensive line is another mix of investing solid money in free agency and high draft picks. Say what you want about Ferrell, he started to play better down the stretch and he's still young and full of potential. Even if he was a reach at 4, he was a first round talent that produced a ton on one of the elite defenses college football has ever seen. No undrafted guy is coming in and taking his snaps away. Crosby just had one of the best seasons you will see from a mid round pick off the edge. 10 sacks is impressive for 90% of NFL players, especially a rookie 4th round pick. You're giving him every opportunity to take the next step. Nassib was just signed to a big contract for a 3rd DE. He's a productive, solid but unspectacular NFL player. It would be super difficult for any undrafted guy to come in and beat him out in the first year or two of that deal. You could sign a guy or two to try and come in and contribute more than Key I guess. 

You could maybe make a case for DT but Hankins is a really good NT and makes a huge impact on our run game. You could possibly find an undrafted guy that develops into a run stuffing NT at his level, but it's not likely to happen. Especially with Hall behind him in a make or break season as a high second round pick that has all the athletic tools. He needs the reps to see if he finally takes a step in a make or break year. Collins is on a one year, prove it type of year but is a productive NFL pass rusher at DT with connections to the DL coach who pounded the table for him. He's not sacrificing reps to any undrafted guy I see. And Hurst is behind him and has played well enough to get reps. And he's still very young. 

And that's not even considering these rookie undrafted guys seeing the depth we have at a lot of positions and choosing some teams that don't have as much depth, even if some of those teams have more star power at the top at their position. And then you factor in the shortened offseason where we don't even truly know just how short that will be. I can certainly see why signing some of these undrafted kids that people like we're a priority. I really like a few of them too. I'm not saying they can't be good or aren't worth even considering. I just think we're in a great spot depth wise at most of the positions. The depth won't be what keeps us from being a very good team. It's the lack of true game breaking star power that could do that. And you just don't typically find that on the undrafted market. We have to hope some of our young guys that we have invested high picks in this year hit their ceiling and the guys we did last year that showed flashes take the next step. If that happens we could see a jump in just how good this team can be. 

[NYRaider]

9 minutes ago, Mr Raider said:

I'm not saying that isn't important but when I look at our roster I don't see a ton of places where I see an undrafted guy beating the guy's we already have. 

Agreed. At spots like WR/IOL/TE/QB there are going to be decent veterans that don't make the roster. An UDFA CB isn't going to make the team with all of the young talent we already have there. The only two spots I think an UDFA really might be able to find a roster spot would be at DT if the staff really doesn't like Hall and a true RB to play behind Jacobs. But even then I think we'd be better suited to bring in veterans like Dion Jordan and Carlos Hyde to fill those spots. 

[NYRaider]

30 minutes ago, Mr Raider said:

I'm not too worried about the lack of undrafted free agents. We are not a complete team at all. We have holes obviously. But what we currently really lack is star power. The depth of the overall team is night and day when compared to 2 years ago. We have a bunch of guys at almost every position that can be described as decent/solid starters. We don't have many guys you can look at and say he's among the best in the league at his position.

I agree. Although in terms of star power I'd say we have 5 players you can look at say he's among the best in the league at his position with Jacobs, Waller, Hudson, Brown, and Littleton. 

[NightTrainLane]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Meh. I think Erik Harris is pretty much guaranteed a roster spot. Third year in Gunther's system, played in all 32 games the last two seasons (18 starts), and he was average in coverage and run support last season. We need a backup safety with some range and Harris can provide that. White/Muse are more so box players that will likely be full time LB's in the league so I agree Levitt and Wilbur's spots are at risk. 

Doesn't mean anything if he isnt playing like a stud. If he gets outplayed he is toast. period

And Heath and Joyner are the main back up Safteies imo but we'll see how things work out on the field. anyone ca rise or fall.

[Mr Raider]

37 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I agree. Although in terms of star power I'd say we have 5 players you can look at say he's among the best in the league at his position with Jacobs, Waller, Hudson, Brown, and Littleton. 

I agree with all of those. Especially Hudson and Brown right now today. I meant to mention Jacobs and Waller as well, but went on a different rant lol. I think Waller and Jacobs both played like top 5-7 players at their positions last year. The continued play at a high level and hopefully improvement and growth for both of them because of their youth and being a second year back and a guy that essentially saw his first real playing time at TE last season, will go a long way in determining just how good we can be. If they both take another step we could become a very scary team. Football is the ultimate team sport but the true contenders still have star power. We currently have an abundance of talent on the OL (our most talented unit IMO) which is a huge asset in football but having Jacobs and Waller take another step would lead to another step on our path to being a legitimate contender. If guys like Crosby, Mullen, Ruggs can hit their ceiling in the next couple of years they also can be guys I can see being "stars" and among the top 12ish of their positions in the NFL. I have no idea if they will, but I've seen enough potential and on field ability as rookies from the guys that played last year and a high enough ceiling for Ruggs to believe he could get there. And that would be so huge for us. I'm also hopeful Littleton can provide some real star power quality of play at LB. Lord knows we've been without even remotely close for years and he certainly has the ability and is still incredibly young. We can be very hopeful his best football is in front of him. 

Really though if I'm an undrafted free agent, I still believe in myself, I believe I can become a great NFL player but at that point the first goal is to stick. Get yourself on a roster, make an impact on special teams. Hit the weight room. Get better in practice, etc. But I want to make it on the roster first and foremost. And in that situation I would actually prefer to go to a team even if they have a star that plays at my position but poor depth as opposed to going to a team that doesn't have a star at my spot but a bunch of guys that are quality NFL depth players. If you develop and hit your ceiling you have to believe you'll break through with more reps and understanding of the system. The star alone won't keep you from eventually breaking through if you're good enough. The depth though could make it hard to do, because until you stick you have to outplay all of those guys immediately not after you've developed some. And that won't be an easy task your rookie season. Especially because sometimes you can even be a little better but you're still an undrafted free agent and you'll probably have to be significantly better for a team to keep you on the roster over a first, second, or sometimes even third year guy that was a former first or second round pick, or even sometimes mid round picks because coaches and GMs just value the guys they drafted over undrafted guys unless the gap is pretty sizable. We have an influx of high first and second round picks over the past couple of years and a bunch of promising mid round prospects. 

I just don't see our situation overall as one that would cause us to prioritize undrafted guys more than other teams because of the overall depth, the higher number of early round draft picks, draft picks overall and because we have had a bunch of cap space the past couple of seasons that have led us to sign some big names and a bunch of solid, mid level free agents. 

[jimkelly02]

15 hours ago, Dessie said:

I’m not sure I am getting this? Our veteran depth is preventing UDFAs from signing? Surely that is only a bad thing if the UDFA is better than the vet. 

We did sign Eberle so what’s the problem ? 

I said I’d have been thrilled if we only did Signed both a P AND a K.  Eberle was the K I thought made most sense: local and was a draftable prospect- meaning he’d at least push Carlson, who is the preferred K to make the team.  But I felt we also needed a P to compete with Cole.  He was okay last year but not amazing by any means.  With Charlton and Turk going undrafted we really should have signed one of them.  
 

Im not upset... im just slightly disappointed.  We signed some guys who are highly questionable even for UDFAs.  IMO since we had limited roster spots and every team has the same amount of money to give bonuses to UDFAs the smart move is to target 2-3 guys who have a decent chance of making the team.  I don’t see a single player outside of Eberle who is worth holding a blocking pad at camp.  

Let me clarify my other comments:

we had a roster that was pretty full already after the draft, 86 players.  Look at OL we have Kush, Devey, Cotton, Magnuson, Kalis all on the outside looking in to make the team.  If your a top UDFA OL the Raiders is not a desireable team because your not likely to make the team.  You’ll get very few reps to impress and you gotta beat out proven vets.  The top UDFAs want to go to teams that have have a low number of players on their roster at their position and have a weakness at their position.

look at Preston Williams the WR from Colorado State who signed with Miami last year.  They didn’t have a lot of WRs and the ones they did weren’t roster locks, this when he played well in the good amount of reps he made the team.

The only positions I saw us not stacked at were FB (but no ones beating out Ingold), LT, RB (we lack a power back or a speedy back that can get a good amount of carries, isn’t just a receiver), and Safety. 
 

There’s no way Hunter Bryant, one of the top UDFAs, the TE from Washington would ever sign with us.  We have an insane amount of good TEs.  So I had low expectations for UDFA signings.  
 

An A+ got would have been if we signed K Eberle, P Charlton/Turk (still available), LS Liam McCullough (gives us good competition for all our ST players) and then a RB like Javon Leake/James Robinson/Michael Warren/etc and 1-2 guys who had draftable grades.  

Myles Dorn, FS. Dad played for us

Francis Bernard, LB, Fresno State

Raequan Williams, DT, Michigan St

Alex Taylor/Trey Adams/Calvin Throckmorton/Terrence Steele/etc OL

etc, etc

 

the good thing is we didn’t appear to waste any money of the guys we signed... it’s really only a principal issue for me but I’d be mad if we signed Nick Powers got money signing bonus money then Ingold, Nixon, Cole, James, Coney all got last year.

[Totty]

I wouldn't expect too much.  90 spots.  After draft had like 5-8 spots available.  We filled out the roster with people who were in the league previously in FA.  Probably had a lot to do with the coronavirus situation.  Get known NFL talent in early to avoid a crapshoot udfa frenzy in uncertain times.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Totty