Packers 2020 WR Corps

[Uffdaswede]

4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Here's the thing about Lazard guys, and really all skill position guys. There's track background guys and there's basketball background guys. 

The track guys are always gonna run a .1 second faster on the 40 than the basketball guys just because their get-off is more technically sound. Lazard is as pure of a basketball guy as they come. Davante is another classic basketball guy.  The 4.55/4.56 respectively on those guys don't mean as much as they would on a guy who is used to doing that sprint. 

Very sound point to remember.

Rodgers doesn’t carry a stopwatch. He just wants his receivers to be where he expects them to be, and then catch the ball when it arrives. Lazard is becoming a very nice #2 .

[Smidgeon]

From Lazard himself (via PFT via someplace else):

“To be able to connect on those deep passes, even for me I think I’m going to be able to get more respect in my vertical game considering that I’m slow.”

I really do like his attitude.  He's got the right kind of energy.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Smidgeon

[HeresAGuy]

Darius Shepphard still looks like a homeless mans randall cobb out there.  Still shellshocked and scared to play in the NFL

[dwaye50327]

Does Lazard remind anyone of maybe a poor man's version of Jordy Nelson. Doesn't have great speed, not the big jump ball type of guy, but is very good at running routes and finding holes in the defense. Lazard has a long way to go before he is anywhere close to Jordy, but I can see Lazard causing problems for defenses with his route running and intelligence of how the defense is playing him.

[skibrett15]

5 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Here's the thing about Lazard guys, and really all skill position guys. There's track background guys and there's basketball background guys. 

The track guys are always gonna run a .1 second faster on the 40 than the basketball guys just because their get-off is more technically sound. Lazard is as pure of a basketball guy as they come. Davante is another classic basketball guy.  The 4.55/4.56 respectively on those guys don't mean as much as they would on a guy who is used to doing that sprint. 

I think this is true only to the extent that players did much less preparation for the 40 time in the past than they do now.  This may or may not be true of lazard, but pretty much all decent prospects heavily prepare for the 40 by working on their starts.

 

Regarding evans/lazard.  It's a decent comp from an athletic perspective.  I see Lazard as slower "down the field" meaning he's slower on deep routes.  Some of this is he's also clumsy with a lot of missed steps both tracking the ball and once he's caught it.  I think they are close speed/explosion wise inside 20 yards.

This next part is really splitting hairs, Lazard is actually faster inside 10 yards (1.58 vs 1.60) and inside 20 yards (2.63 vs 2.66) but the last 20 yards, mike evans is faster, and enough to overcome lazard in overall time.  So yards 20-40 or the "flying 20" (1.92 vs 1.87)

 

Now let's go back to another question - is Mike Evans athletic enough to be a great receiver - yes, but only because he's exceptional at contested catches, tracking the deep ball, and using his large frame to make things easier on his QB.  So I guess my point is that pointing to one athlete as a justification for Lazard's speed doesn't make much sense when Mike Evans is already somewhat limited in that area.  Both guys make it work - evans with more force of will, jumping, and catching ability, and Lazard with more polish on his routes.

[Green19]

9 minutes ago, dwaye50327 said:

Does Lazard remind anyone of maybe a poor man's version of Jordy Nelson. Doesn't have great speed, not the big jump ball type of guy, but is very good at running routes and finding holes in the defense. Lazard has a long way to go before he is anywhere close to Jordy, but I can see Lazard causing problems for defenses with his route running and intelligence of how the defense is playing him.

No... jordy had speed. His speed was just long stride, he didnt have short area burst. But in his prime he would out run DBs long striding.
 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Green19

[skibrett15]

10 minutes ago, dwaye50327 said:

Does Lazard remind anyone of maybe a poor man's version of Jordy Nelson. Doesn't have great speed, not the big jump ball type of guy, but is very good at running routes and finding holes in the defense. Lazard has a long way to go before he is anywhere close to Jordy, but I can see Lazard causing problems for defenses with his route running and intelligence of how the defense is playing him.

Nelson had good long speed.  Imagine Lazard catching this, prolly tackled at the 15 or 10?

 

[Green19]

4 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

I think this is true only to the extent that players did much less preparation for the 40 time in the past than they do now.  This may or may not be true of lazard, but pretty much all decent prospects heavily prepare for the 40 by working on their starts.

 

Regarding evans/lazard.  It's a decent comp from an athletic perspective.  I see Lazard as slower "down the field" meaning he's slower on deep routes.  Some of this is he's also clumsy with a lot of missed steps both tracking the ball and once he's caught it.  I think they are close speed/explosion wise inside 20 yards.

This next part is really splitting hairs, Lazard is actually faster inside 10 yards (1.58 vs 1.60) and inside 20 yards (2.63 vs 2.66) but the last 20 yards, mike evans is faster, and enough to overcome lazard in overall time.  So yards 20-40 or the "flying 20" (1.92 vs 1.87)

 

Now let's go back to another question - is Mike Evans athletic enough to be a great receiver - yes, but only because he's exceptional at contested catches, tracking the deep ball, and using his large frame to make things easier on his QB.  So I guess my point is that pointing to one athlete as a justification for Lazard's speed doesn't make much sense when Mike Evans is already somewhat limited in that area.  Both guys make it work - evans with more force of will, jumping, and catching ability, and Lazard with more polish on his routes.

And one cost a first rounder and the other cost no draft capital... amazing

[AlexGreen#20]

5 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

I think this is true only to the extent that players did much less preparation for the 40 time in the past than they do now.  This may or may not be true of lazard, but pretty much all decent prospects heavily prepare for the 40 by working on their starts.

 

Regarding evans/lazard.  It's a decent comp from an athletic perspective.  I see Lazard as slower "down the field" meaning he's slower on deep routes.  Some of this is he's also clumsy with a lot of missed steps both tracking the ball and once he's caught it.  I think they are close speed/explosion wise inside 20 yards.

This next part is really splitting hairs, Lazard is actually faster inside 10 yards (1.58 vs 1.60) and inside 20 yards (2.63 vs 2.66) but the last 20 yards, mike evans is faster, and enough to overcome lazard in overall time.  So yards 20-40 or the "flying 20" (1.92 vs 1.87)

 

Now let's go back to another question - is Mike Evans athletic enough to be a great receiver - yes, but only because he's exceptional at contested catches, tracking the deep ball, and using his large frame to make things easier on his QB.  So I guess my point is that pointing to one athlete as a justification for Lazard's speed doesn't make much sense when Mike Evans is already somewhat limited in that area.  Both guys make it work - evans with more force of will, jumping, and catching ability, and Lazard with more polish on his routes.

I think you're right that prep time has something to do with it, but I don't think you're going to get anywhere near the progress in 3 months that some of these guys get in 8 years of track as a highschooler.

[skibrett15]

Just now, Green19 said:

And one cost a first rounder and the other cost no draft capital... amazing

what point are you arguing?

No one is saying either is a bad player. Or even that Lazard isn't a good player.

[dwaye50327]

5 minutes ago, Green19 said:

No... jordy had speed. His speed was just long stride, he didnt have short area burst. But in his prime he would out run DBs long striding.
 

I kind of disagree, Lazard could have that same long stride speed but seems he hasn't figured it out yet. The dude is 6'5 with long legs, if Lazard can figure out how to run, he'll be really dangerous.

[Green19]

Just now, skibrett15 said:

what point are you arguing?

No one is saying either is a bad player. Or even that Lazard isn't a good player.

I’m not arguing any point... did I need to?

Im just saying given how similar they are one came at a greater cost than the other. Green Bay seems to pride itself on finding these guys.

 

[skibrett15]

Forgot to add, this is my comp for Lazard.  Maybe some of you remember him.  He had a nice size advantage out of the slot for buffalo on some really really bad teams:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NelsDa01.htm

 

One of the first 6-5 guys I ever saw lined up as a slot WR.  To me, this is Lazard's game - posts and corners in the deep red zone.  Using that frame on the outside for back-shoulder throws

[Green19]

2 minutes ago, dwaye50327 said:

I kind of disagree, Lazard could have that same long stride speed but seems he hasn't figured it out yet. The dude is 6'5 with long legs, if Lazard can figure out how to run, he'll be really dangerous.

And until he does... jordy isn’t a good comparison.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Green19

[skibrett15]

Just now, Green19 said:

I’m not arguing any point... did I need to?

Im just saying given how similar they are one came at a greater cost than the other. Green Bay seems to pride itself on finding these guys.

 

ok, but they aren't really similar.  Lazard has a shadow of the big play and contested play making abilities that evans has.  Lazard is better at creating some separation than Evans.