Packers 2020 WR Corps

[Mazrimiv]

If you have to put qualifiers of a WR's speed... he's slow

[HighCalebR]

2 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

If you have to put qualifiers of a WR's speed... he's slow

Ya'll are wild.

[Norm]

According to Elias, Lazard is the slowest player to ever record 140 yards. 

I'm still half convinced half of the people down on him do so just because he wasn't drafted.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Norm

[Sasquatch]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

According to Elias, Lazard is the slowest player to ever record 140 yards. 

Lazard is only slow when he’s looking backwards at a closing defender.  Otherwise, he’s of average speed, lol.

[beekay414]

2 hours ago, Norm said:

According to Elias, Lazard is the slowest player to ever record 140 yards. 

I'm still half convinced half of the people down on him do so just because he wasn't drafted.

lol impossible. James Jones had 140 yards vs Atlanta in 2011. Also had 178 vs Washington in 2013.

EDIT - I'm assuming you mean WR? Or you just messing with us again lol? Cuz there's gotta be some chode *** slow TE that had 140 yards. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by beekay414

[coachbuns]

Good god Irene ... who cares how fast Lazard is?  He runs good routes, is where he's supposed to be, catches the ball (most of the time), and blocks well.  There's been numerous players without blazing speed (Jerry Rice had 4.71 40 yd speed) who have been lights out receivers.  To be solely fixated on how fast or slow a wr is ... goofyness.    

[craig]

Lazard appears to be a legit, good player.  Glad we got him.  He seems to really use his tools.  He blocks well; seems to be a smart, nuanced route runner; he drops some but he's pretty good at catching what he can reach; uses his body well; seems to have excellent body control.  His catch on the first bomb was really impressive, stretched out, protected the ball from the ground as well as possible, was able to consciously do a little twist to try to get his hip down first and avoid landing on his arms and jarring the ball free.  Seems to be excellent technically, and seems to have things click very well intellectually and in terms of decision-making.  

I wonder if they're kind of taught on the deep throws to make sure they focus on catching, and securing the ball, and don't worry about running until you've got it?  Just focus on ball and hands, don't worry about the feet?  

He runs well... for a guy his size.  But obviously he's not faster than safeties and corners.  He's not going to run away from those guys, few WR can.  As in the Sunday play, it was subtle move not pure speed that got him open.  That's probably true for most receivers.  

There have been some comps to Mike Evans and Jordy.  That's cool. 

There were some other comps over the off-season:  "I hope he doesn't turn out to be another Geronimo Allison or Jarrett Boykin", UDFA guys who made some plays, racked up some stats and were given opportunities, but weren't able to match or improve.  (Boykin was the starter ahead of Davante Adams early in Adams' rookie year.).  Pretty evident that Lazard is NOT Boykin or Allison.  

Think he's a smart, motivated guy.  Gives an excellent interview.  And the "slow" is a chip-on-his-shoulder thing.  Obviously he's not fast, relative to the WR or secondary guys of the NFL.  But of all the factors that factor into receiver play, pure speed is only one of them and is not essential.  

 

 

[Norm]

7 hours ago, beekay414 said:

lol impossible. James Jones had 140 yards vs Atlanta in 2011. Also had 178 vs Washington in 2013.

EDIT - I'm assuming you mean WR? Or you just messing with us again lol? Cuz there's gotta be some chode *** slow TE that had 140 yards. 

I was joking...

[deathstar]

I think what we are seeing throughout this thread is the argument that GB has no talent at WR is slowly dying. The weird discussion about MVS being untalented and now apparently Lazard is slow. Each week they are disproving these things, but the idea that outside of Adams we had the worst WR corps in the league had such a hold on people that it’s going to take awhile for them to admit that we are good.

[craig]

On 9/27/2020 at 10:52 PM, HeresAGuy said:

MVS's absolute ceiling is WR3 / route run home run hitter.  Thats just who he is.

Lazard, while slow, has the capacity to at least roleplay as a WR2

Disagree.  Home-run threat opens other things.  In games 1 and 2, he had a couple of nice crossing patterns, (one he badly dropped, the other he made a difficult high-throw catch.). In games 1 and 2, he had some "cushion" catches, where the threat of deep gave him opportunities for quick underneath completions.  Even Sunday, he didn't catch much with a couple of imperfect throws, but he pulled the attention away from Lazard. Because Saints viewed him as our most dangerous target.

He racked up a lot of catches and a lot of yards in games 1+2.  Was that "3" or "2", I think that could be as much tagged as "2" as "3".  

Perhaps MVS and Lazard might both be tagged as 2/3-ish guys.  Guys play within the system.  They aren't #1.  MVS got lots of yards and catches when primary attention was on Adams and the run game; that's what a 2/3 should do.  When MVS got Adams-level attention, he didn't, but Lazard did.

Like Outlook said, if these guys kinda toggle big games, that's fine.  Defenses can't be focused on Jones, Adams, MVS, Lazard, Ervin, and TE's all.  Whoever is NOT getting targeted defensively, lets keep on taking advantage and taking what the defense allows.  

Vikes focused Jones, Adams exploded.  Lions focused Adams, Jones and others had big games.  Saints focused Jones and MVS, Lazard and TE's exploded.  

I don't know what the Falcons are going to try to prioritize next week.  It probably won't be the same as either weeks 1, 2, or 3.  So maybe next week the TE's will catch nothing, and others will.  Who knows?  

[craig]

Other WR note, I thought it was interesting that while Taylor made the roster ahead of Shepherd, it was Shepherd who got all the snaps from scrimmage.  

I admit being very disappointed in that, I'd hoped that perhaps Taylor was more than just a special-teams guy, and that he made the roster because he has potential as a receiver.  He's been with the team as long as Shepherd, so it's not like he hasn't had time to learn the system or anything.  

Or perhaps that speaks to the positions they play? 

• Adams is the one receiver who isn't asked to block much, and small Shepherd isn't the physical blocker that Taylor is.  So maybe Shepherd is next many up specifically and only if Adams is injured? 
• Perhaps if it was instead Lazard, whose blocking duties are heavy, perhaps then it would have been Taylor? 
• I wonder with MVS.  Might Taylor take some of his snaps?  Or would perhaps the PS speedster from Buffalo then take the MVS speed role?  
• Hopefully Adams, MVS, and Lazard are all healthy from here on out, or at least from after the bye through the season, so that we never need to see who takes their places in games future. 

[Mr. Fussnputz]

1 hour ago, craig said:

Lazard appears to be a legit, good player.  Glad we got him.  He seems to really use his tools.  He blocks well; seems to be a smart, nuanced route runner; he drops some but he's pretty good at catching what he can reach; uses his body well; seems to have excellent body control.  His catch on the first bomb was really impressive, stretched out, protected the ball from the ground as well as possible, was able to consciously do a little twist to try to get his hip down first and avoid landing on his arms and jarring the ball free.  Seems to be excellent technically, and seems to have things click very well intellectually and in terms of decision-making.  

I wonder if they're kind of taught on the deep throws to make sure they focus on catching, and securing the ball, and don't worry about running until you've got it?  Just focus on ball and hands, don't worry about the feet?  

He runs well... for a guy his size.  But obviously he's not faster than safeties and corners.  He's not going to run away from those guys, few WR can.  As in the Sunday play, it was subtle move not pure speed that got him open.  That's probably true for most receivers.  

There have been some comps to Mike Evans and Jordy.  That's cool. 

There were some other comps over the off-season:  "I hope he doesn't turn out to be another Geronimo Allison or Jarrett Boykin", UDFA guys who made some plays, racked up some stats and were given opportunities, but weren't able to match or improve.  (Boykin was the starter ahead of Davante Adams early in Adams' rookie year.).  Pretty evident that Lazard is NOT Boykin or Allison.  

Think he's a smart, motivated guy.  Gives an excellent interview.  And the "slow" is a chip-on-his-shoulder thing.  Obviously he's not fast, relative to the WR or secondary guys of the NFL.  But of all the factors that factor into receiver play, pure speed is only one of them and is not essential.  

 

 

Plus he has the biggest hands I've ever seen on a Packer WR. He doesn't catch the ball; he engulfs the ball. 

[Refugee]

On 9/29/2020 at 7:19 AM, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Plus he has the biggest hands I've ever seen on a Packer WR. He doesn't catch the ball; he engulfs the ball. 

I remember Jarrett Boykin, he had some catchers mitts for hands.  Sterling Sharpe definitely had some meat pillows.  The ball would just fall into his hands and that was that.

[Chili]

Jordy Nelson did track, 100m, 200m, 400m and that is clearly reflected in his running technique. Just watch his Kansas TD over Talib where his beautiful long running stride was on full display. That's a 400m background right there without a doubt, his running style reminds me of Olympic Champion Jeremy Wariner.

 

Allen Lazard doesn't appear to have any track background and because he hasn't refined his running technique he is stumbling when he doesn't need to be. On top of that I think because he's so big he spent most of his career just doing jump balls and doing little else (common in larger WRs/TEs) so he never really developed his YAC game. He since lost weight and become more explosive and has obviously improved to the point where he has developed some YAC ability as evidenced last weekend but it's still work in progress.

The only explanation for the similarities between Nelson's and Lazard 40 times is that Nelson isn't as explosive but has superior long speed whilst Lazard has a more powerful start but not much of a long speed. Also this is why you see Nelson comfortably making long TDs whereas Lazard can make the catch but struggles to reach the endzone.

They are completely different players.

Lazard need to do some 400m track running in his spare time and that should tidy up his running technique and strengthen his legs too.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Chili

[coachbuns]

4 hours ago, Chili said:

Jordy Nelson did track, 100m, 200m, 400m and that is clearly reflected in his running technique. Just watch his Kansas TD over Talib where his beautiful long running stride was on full display. That's a 400m background right there without a doubt, his running style reminds me of Olympic Champion Jeremy Wariner.

 

Allen Lazard doesn't appear to have any track background and because he hasn't refined his running technique he is stumbling when he doesn't need to be. On top of that I think because he's so big he spent most of his career just doing jump balls and doing little else (common in larger WRs/TEs) so he never really developed his YAC game. He since lost weight and become more explosive and has obviously improved to the point where he has developed some YAC ability as evidenced last weekend but it's still work in progress.

The only explanation for the similarities between Nelson's and Lazard 40 times is that Nelson isn't as explosive but has superior long speed whilst Lazard has a more powerful start but not much of a long speed. Also this is why you see Nelson comfortably making long TDs whereas Lazard can make the catch but struggles to reach the endzone.

They are completely different players.

Lazard need to do some 400m track running in his spare time and that should tidy up his running technique and strengthen his legs too.

He's huge compared to Nelson, no way he can replicate what Nelson did.  Lazard and Nelson ARE completely different.  Lazard is a complimentary receiver to Adams and did show last week he can handle it.  An undrafted player who was on the practice squad who blocks well, runs decent routes and is where he's supposed to be ... Packers have to be thrilled with his production.  To compare the 2 can be done but not sure it's a fair comparison.