WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: I’m not disputing that he missed the pick. MY POINT is that the difference between Pace being considered a pretty successful one and not being considered a pretty successful one is no more than getting that one pick wrong. You can absolutely contend with a mediocre OL and an averageish TE situation with a good QB. You can say that for a ton of coaches and GMs. It is the most important personnel decision you make in the NFL. Get it wrong it will cost you your job, get it right and you are employed for a long time. That is what separates the good coaches and GMs from the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, beardown3231 said: Don't forget O'Donnell's atrocious punt You call it forgetting, I call it blocking out. Lol Edited May 16, 2020 by Sugashane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sugashane said: You call it forgetting, I call it blocking out. Lol If Pace found a new punter I'd forgive him for Trubisky 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, WindyCity said: Again exaggerations to cover up the failings of Pace. It was said in jest in reference to how the majority of people on this board think they have a mediocre GM. What I said had nothing to do with you. But since you wanna go that route, then lets look at your list. Quote There are a number of better GMs in the league and a number of good ones. You named 10 GM's that you think are better and another 3 who you listed as "growing into it". This would put Pace into the top 1/3 of the league and you still want him fired? I would also argue Decosta belongs on that "growing into it" as well since he inherited a team built by Ozzie and not by himself. Edited May 16, 2020 by JustAnotherFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 4 hours ago, WindyCity said: 5 hours ago, dll2000 said: Kick was tipped nobody ever mentions that. And it still traveled 43 yards and almost went in. It missed by a few inches. He made his other kicks. Parkey as scapegoat for that game to me is wrong. Burton not playing at last minute was reason they lost. If you have a 43 yard kick tipped with 0 penetration, by a 6’2” 300lbs man... You kicked it to damn low. Yes. The missed FG was all on Parkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: You can say that for a ton of coaches and GMs. It is the most important personnel decision you make in the NFL. Get it wrong it will cost you your job, get it right and you are employed for a long time. That is what separates the good coaches and GMs from the pack. This is not true at all. Rick Speilman has missed on QB's how many times in his career and he still has a job. A GM's job is more than just about the QB position. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 I think AZ makes a great point about the perception of an average to good or even great GM...it is also ironic that John Schneider has been mentioned as a quality GM considering his and Pace's approaches are pretty similar... Schneider arrives in Seattle in 2010 and went 7-9...2011 went 7-9...but brought in talent like Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Brandon Browner, K.J Wright...that is the core of an elite defence and in the discussion for top 10 defence of all time but still a losing record...after 2012 Schneider drafts Bobby Wagner to complete that defence and then took a duel approach at QB signing Matt Flynn in FA from GB and drafting Russell Wilson in round 3 of the draft and boom...you have a superbowl winning team the next season... This is very similar to Pace since Nagy arrived... 2018 we go 12-4 and already have a D in place with Goldman, Hicks, Mack, Trevathan, Fuller and Jackson...he drafts Smith and we get solid play at the QB spot with decent output from the offence as a whole after adding the likes of Allen Robinson...2019 we go 8-8 because the offence goes backwards following an offseason with limited resources and poor QB play...2020 Pace adds more talent on offence...keeps the core of the defence together and adds a guy like Robert Quinn and has what looks to be a solid draft and signs a vet who has been a winner in the past in Nicke Foles to compete with Trubisky...winner takes the job... How is what Pace has done different to what Schneider has done outside of one guy taking a big swing and potentially missing where the other took a gamble on a 3rd rounder he thought would be backing up Matt Flynn of all people and hit gold? One lucky pick can take you from average to great... If Trubisky and Foles take us to another 8-8 type year I still think we are on that Seahawks curve...you bring back one of them on a mid level contract and draft a QB that both Pace and Nagy have true faith in...keep your cap space to keep your core together and when that rookie is ready you have a real shot with the talent you have built around him...the blue print is there. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 @Madmike90 Good post and Imma let you finish.....but the way you folk over the pond spell "defence" still bothers me. But as I was told by a friend in the UK --"We spell it the right way. Do you spell fence with an S or C ?". I was left speechless.......he got me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Getting a good quarterback is a very difficult proposition and I really think a decent portion of the process comes down to luck. The Chargers had a chance to take Peyton Manning instead of Ryan Leaf. They chose Leaf and pretty much everyone in the building felt good with the pick at the time. A lot of experts were wrong on that one. There are a lot of stories like that when teams have picked guys high in the draft and they busted. Unfortunately, it just happened to the Bears this time. It probably wouldn't hurt near as much if you didn't have to be reminded so often about who they passed on for Trubisky, but that's life in the NFL. Win some, lose some. Hopefully, next time you get a chance, you will get a good one. You never know, maybe you will end up with a guy like Russell Wilson, who fell to the third round and became one of the leagues best QBs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 2 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: It was said in jest in reference to how the majority of people on this board think they have a mediocre GM. What I said had nothing to do with you. But since you wanna go that route, then lets look at your list. You named 10 GM's that you think are better and another 3 who you listed as "growing into it". This would put Pace into the top 1/3 of the league and you still want him fired? I would also argue Decosta belongs on that "growing into it" as well since he inherited a team built by Ozzie and not by himself. I think those 10 are good. That is not an exhaustive list of GMs better than Pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 2 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: This is not true at all. Rick Speilman has missed on QB's how many times in his career and he still has a job. A GM's job is more than just about the QB position. Good single example. The list of GMs taken down by bust QBs is a lot longer than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Madmike90 said: I think AZ makes a great point about the perception of an average to good or even great GM...it is also ironic that John Schneider has been mentioned as a quality GM considering his and Pace's approaches are pretty similar... Schneider arrives in Seattle in 2010 and went 7-9...2011 went 7-9...but brought in talent like Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Brandon Browner, K.J Wright...that is the core of an elite defence and in the discussion for top 10 defence of all time but still a losing record...after 2012 Schneider drafts Bobby Wagner to complete that defence and then took a duel approach at QB signing Matt Flynn in FA from GB and drafting Russell Wilson in round 3 of the draft and boom...you have a superbowl winning team the next season... This is very similar to Pace since Nagy arrived... 2018 we go 12-4 and already have a D in place with Goldman, Hicks, Mack, Trevathan, Fuller and Jackson...he drafts Smith and we get solid play at the QB spot with decent output from the offence as a whole after adding the likes of Allen Robinson...2019 we go 8-8 because the offence goes backwards following an offseason with limited resources and poor QB play...2020 Pace adds more talent on offence...keeps the core of the defence together and adds a guy like Robert Quinn and has what looks to be a solid draft and signs a vet who has been a winner in the past in Nicke Foles to compete with Trubisky...winner takes the job... How is what Pace has done different to what Schneider has done outside of one guy taking a big swing and potentially missing where the other took a gamble on a 3rd rounder he thought would be backing up Matt Flynn of all people and hit gold? One lucky pick can take you from average to great... If Trubisky and Foles take us to another 8-8 type year I still think we are on that Seahawks curve...you bring back one of them on a mid level contract and draft a QB that both Pace and Nagy have true faith in...keep your cap space to keep your core together and when that rookie is ready you have a real shot with the talent you have built around him...the blue print is there. So, we just need to hit on the next QB? As this franchise and GM have proven that is the most difficult thing to do. Schneider may have got lucky or it was exceptional scouting, but he landed an MVP candidate QB, on his first try, and took advantage of his defenses window. Approaches-Similar Results-Not Similar Edited May 16, 2020 by WindyCity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 I am on-board with the idea that the primary difference between good GMs and average or worse GMs is their ability to scout, draft, and develop QBs. The guys who hit on them have consistent winners that they can supplement and it makes team building much easier. The guys who miss either throw Hail Marys that work, like Kirk in Minny and Tom in TB, or they get taken down by it. Not always immediately, but the QB position is on the top of their gravestones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, WindyCity said: So, we just need to hit on the next QB? I...guess? They may have one now...but--whatever? 5 minutes ago, WindyCity said: As this franchise and GM have proven that is the most difficult thing to do. Well, no, that doesn't prove that at all. But, is there a point, there? 7 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Schneider may have got lucky or it was exceptional scouting, but he landed an MVP candidate QB, on his first try, and took advantage of his defenses window. Umm, okay? And? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I think those 10 are good. That is not an exhaustive list of GMs better than Pace. Then I would love to see your list with a detailed reasons as to why then. 25 minutes ago, WindyCity said: he list of GMs taken down by bust QBs is a lot longer than that. You're too focused on the QB position that it's blinding you from the fact that the GM's job is more than one position. 8 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I am on-board with the idea that the primary difference between good GMs and average or worse GMs is their ability to scout, draft, and develop QBs. And what's the percentage of these of good GM's vs the field? I'll wait. Edited May 16, 2020 by JustAnotherFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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