VanS Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: Allen is much better than Lamar He has the potential to be better but he's not "much better" than Lamar. Nobody is much better than a player of Lamar's caliber. Don't let what hapoened last night fool you. Lamar Jackson is still as good as any player in the NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, VanS said: He has the potential to be better but he's not "much better" than Lamar. Nobody is much better than a player of Lamar's caliber. Don't let what hapoened last night fool you. Lamar Jackson is still as good as any player in the NFL. It’s not just last night. It’s his overall play. He doesn’t have the full QB skill set to open up the playbook passing wise such as Mahomes, Allen, or Russ hes a very dynamic player but he’s not a great QB Edited September 30, 2020 by rocky_rams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: It’s not just last night. It’s his overall play. He doesn’t have the full QB skill set to open up the playbook passing wise such as Mahomes, Allen, or Russ hes a very dynamic player but he’s not a great QB It's weird that people still use language like this to knock certain players when we've seen so many examples of guys who have excelled in this league despite specific limitations. What even is a 'great QB' at this point? The standards that say you have to have X, Y and Z physical attributes, idealized mechanics, arm strength, etc. are clearly being outmoded by the proliferation of RPO schemes and QBs who can consistently make plays with their legs. So why is it necessary for a guy to be able to play the part of classic pocket QB to be great? People are still looking for a QB to check all the boxes for a guy in the Manning/Brady mold when it should be obvious that the standard is obsolete. Russell Wilson fell to the 3rd round because he didn't fit that standard. That was 8 years ago. He's now indisputably one of the top 2-3 players in the league and people still don't respect that. Edited September 30, 2020 by Starless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Starless said: It's weird that people still use language like this to knock certain players when we've seen so many examples of guys who have excelled in this league despite specific limitations. What even is a 'great QB' at this point? The standards that say you have to have X, Y and Z physical attributes, idealized mechanics, arm strength, etc. are clearly being outmoded by the proliferation of RPO schemes and QBs who can consistently make plays with their legs. So why is it necessary for a guy to be able to play the part of classic pocket QB to be great? People are still looking for a QB to check all the boxes for a guy in the Manning/Brady mold when it should be obvious that the standard is obsolete. Russell Wilson fell to the 3rd round because he didn't fit that standard. That was 8 years ago. He's now indisputably one of the top 2-3 players in the league and people still don't respect that. Nobody mentioned Manning/Brady. The players i mentioned are much better pocket passers than Lamar, especially Mahomes and Russ Edited September 30, 2020 by rocky_rams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, rocky_rams said: Nobody mentioned Manning/Brady. The players i mentioned are much better pocket passers than Lamar, especially Mahomes and Russ I brought up Manning/Brady because it's obvious that there's a bias towards guys who look vaguely like that over guys who can make plays in other ways. Why else was Mitch Trubisky picked ahead of both Mahomes and Watson? Why were two guys who appear destined to become career backups (if not wash out of the league entirely) in Darnold and Rosen selected ahead of Jackson in his draft? Even if the guy isn't what you'd call a great pocket passer as of yet, why does he need to be one if he can do the kinds of things he does with the football in his hands? Is a 12-yard run to convert 3rd and 10 not as effective as a 12-yard completion on a back shoulder throw in the same situation? Can you point me to specific instances where one was not as good as the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted September 30, 2020 Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Jakuvious said: You should add the rushing stats for Mahomes in the OP. He's about on par with Allen and Wilson thus far, there, and you have it for those 2. Will update next week. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamedayGuru Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Curious, why is Chubb over Kamara? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 10 hours ago, rocky_rams said: It’s not just last night. It’s his overall play. He doesn’t have the full QB skill set to open up the playbook passing wise such as Mahomes, Allen, or Russ hes a very dynamic player but he’s not a great QB It's like 2019 just didn't happen at all to some people. Wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 When did this become the "Week ______ Overreactions" thread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 10 hours ago, Starless said: I brought up Manning/Brady because it's obvious that there's a bias towards guys who look vaguely like that over guys who can make plays in other ways. Why else was Mitch Trubisky picked ahead of both Mahomes and Watson? Why were two guys who appear destined to become career backups (if not wash out of the league entirely) in Darnold and Rosen selected ahead of Jackson in his draft? Even if the guy isn't what you'd call a great pocket passer as of yet, why does he need to be one if he can do the kinds of things he does with the football in his hands? Is a 12-yard run to convert 3rd and 10 not as effective as a 12-yard completion on a back shoulder throw in the same situation? Can you point me to specific instances where one was not as good as the other? I don’t think anyone thought Trubisky was a better pocket passer than Mahomes it Watson. He, too, was known for his escaping the pocket skills and running when nothing is there. Watson and Mahomes are even much better pocket passers than Trubisky. It’s not that either running or making a back shoulder throw is better. The question is which opens up the playbook for offensive coordinator to design certain schemes and allow receivers to run certain routes. Running QBs typically rely on their athleticism which goes away quickly. QBs that are good in the pocket last longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: It's like 2019 just didn't happen at all to some people. Wild. I didn’t say Lamar isn’t a dynamic player. He’s a very dangerous player and super hard to game plan against. I said that he’s not a great QB. He won MVP but so did Cam. They’re good players who are dangerous. But great QBs they are not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, rocky_rams said: I didn’t say Lamar isn’t a dynamic player. He’s a very dangerous player and super hard to game plan against. I said that he’s not a great QB. He won MVP but so did Cam. They’re good players who are dangerous. But great QBs they are not yawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Biased_Fan Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Lamar is great when Baltimore can run it's offense and keep a balanced running/passing attack. The question mark on him is can he bring his team back from a deficit when he's asked to drop back at a greater percentage. We'll see, but he's not on Mahomes/Wilson/Rodgers level yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) I will say this - if BUF wins 2x vs. NE, and BUF beats SEA, assuming both QB's remain top 3 statistical leaders, Allen's chances of winning MVP go way up. Barring that, though, if SEA wins a top 2 seed, you have to like Wilson for MVP. He's the rightful frontrunner at this stage. Edited September 30, 2020 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Wilson Mahomes Allen Rodgers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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