Higgins & Browns begin extension talk

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, ReggieCamp said:

Next year's FA class for WR's is ridiculously strong.  So much so, that if we do extend Higgins, it needs to be for a very reasonable number.  And if we do end up trading OBJ, I wouldn't plan on receiving very much in return.

Look at this list:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/

Golloday is going to get PAID, along with several others.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

its not necessarily about him progressing, its about the offense and baker progressing.

Its also about an off season of working with baker and getting some things taken care of.

def possible the third offseason is the charm

4 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

From what I can tell, Baker is best running a quick passing offense with quick decisions and relies on his receivers to be where he expects them to.

I mean, this is most QB’s.

4 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

He is great at back shoulder fades and hitting receivers out of their breaks.

Again this is just what I'm seeing but Odell is more liberal with his routes.  He does get open but he goes about it in a less calculated way in more of a how it feels way.

this could also be described as running inconsistent routes.

4 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

He honestly would be perfect in a system with deep balls and longer developing routes.  I think he is a great fit for Houston with Watson.

The question is, are we looking to trade him or just cut him? there is little value cutting him for us and there is also little value trading him during a major knee injury.

I don't expect them to do anything until the trade deadline next year at the earliest.

We save almost nothing by cutting him, we’d have to trade him and I doubt we get much in return.

Would keeping him be better than trading him?  Depends how much you value the cap flexibility and what you could do with 15 million and his contributions as a deep threat/3rd receiver, because as of now I’m sure as hell not starting him over Landry or Higgins.

[CBrownsman]

4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

def possible the third offseason is the charm

I understand the sarcasm here but do remember, its not just about O'dell, its about baker too.

This is his 3rd offensive playbook under 3 different offensive play callers.

There is something to be said about getting used to a scheme and a play style.

I'm sure that has a lot to do with Baker and OBJ's on field relationship as well.

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

this could also be described as running inconsistent routes.

It could be but it doesn't diminish his value as a wide receiver and his abilities to get open and make plays.

Would I like him to be a better route runner? of course, but some times you play with what you have and his talent and ability is undeniable.

7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

We save almost nothing by cutting him, we’d have to trade him and I doubt we get much in return.

Would keeping him be better than trading him?  Depends how much you value the cap flexibility and what you could do with 15 million and his contributions as a deep threat/3rd receiver.

I think we can afford the financial flexibility to see if it works out for now.  Again I think Baker is better without him on the field right now because he focuses on him too much and doesn't see the whole field.  I don't think that's an OBJ, problem, I think that's a Baker problem.

It might become an OBJ problem if we realize him not being on the field doesn't really hurt us, but he is someone the opposing defenses have to scheme around and if they double him it opens up more people on the field for us.

13 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

...as of now I’m sure as hell not starting him over Landry or Higgins.

I like Higgins and think he is doing a great job but I'm not sure I would go this far.

Yes Baker as we discussed has looked much better in games without OBJ than in games with.

In the games OBJ has played in, he has 1095 yards on 170 attempts (6.44 yards per attempt), 60.59% completion, 10 TD, 7 INT

In the games OBJ has been out, he has 1347 yards on 157 attempts (8.58 yards per attempt) 64.97% completion, 11 TDs, 0 INT

Unfortunately what OBJ adds to scheming and opening up the whole field. 

We are running more efficiently with OBJ in the game than with OBJ not in the game even though Chubb missed 3 games with OBJ and only 1 without. 

In the games OBJ has played in, we have 1019 rushing yards on 193 attempts for 5.28 yards per carry.

In the games OBJ has been out, we have 873 rushing yards on 194 attempts for 4.5 yards per carry.

Sure there are a lot of factors, blocking, weather, game conditions.  But you would thing since we are passing the ball so much better without OBJ the run game should open up a lot.

Again I'm not saying we are better with OBJ, I honestly didn't want to make the trade and was one of the first to stand up and say "we look better without him" even though it seemed ridiculous.  I think we should trade him and get something for him.  I just want to give our team a chance to help his trade value, and quite frankly give it a chance to see if we can make this work.  See if we can make baker force the ball less to him and keep spreading the field even with him on it...

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

18 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

I understand the sarcasm here but do remember, its not just about O'dell, its about baker too.

This is his 3rd offensive playbook under 3 different offensive play callers.

There is something to be said about getting used to a scheme and a play style.

I'm sure that has a lot to do with Baker and OBJ's on field relationship as well.

yeah, but other players seem to be doing just fine with chemistry.  

Quote

It could be but it doesn't diminish his value as a wide receiver and his abilities to get open and make plays.

it apparently has here.

Quote

Would I like him to be a better route runner? of course, but some times you play with what you have and his talent and ability is undeniable.

I think there was a time where that was true.  I’m not sure it has been this year or last year and I’m not sure it will be post acl, which is what matters moving forward.

Quote

I think we can afford the financial flexibility to see if it works out for now.  Again I think Baker is better without him on the field right now because he focuses on him too much and doesn't see the whole field.  I don't think that's an OBJ, problem, I think that's a Baker problem.

I get this point, but for whatever reason it’s just not happening. Is it fair to OBj?  Don’t know, don’t care tbh.  I just want our QB to lead a successful passing attack.

Quote

It might become an OBJ problem if we realize him not being on the field doesn't really hurt us, but he is someone the opposing defenses have to scheme around and if they double him it opens up more people on the field for us.

I like Higgins and think he is doing a great job but I'm not sure I would go this far.

Higgins has been much more efficient and equally as productive.

Quote

Yes Baker as we discussed has looked much better in games without OBJ than in games with.

In the games OBJ has played in, he has 1095 yards on 170 attempts (6.44 yards per attempt), 60.59% completion, 10 TD, 7 INT

In the games OBJ has been out, he has 1347 yards on 157 attempts (8.58 yards per attempt) 64.97% completion, 11 TDs, 0 INT

keep in mind, 3 of those games have been in absolutely awful weather conditions that greatly hinder passing.  And the numbers are still significantly better...

Quote

Unfortunately what OBJ adds to scheming and opening up the whole field. 

We are running more efficiently with OBJ in the game than with OBJ not in the game even though Chubb missed 3 games with OBJ and only 1 without. 
 

Both were here all of last season too.  Looked like the same issues then.

Quote

In the games OBJ has played in, we have 1019 rushing yards on 193 attempts for 5.28 yards per carry.

In the games OBJ has been out, we have 873 rushing yards on 194 attempts for 4.5 yards per carry.

Weather plays a role here too, if teams know you can’t pass it’s going to be harder to run.

Quote

Sure there are a lot of factors, blocking, weather, game conditions.  But you would thing since we are passing the ball so much better without OBJ the run game should open up a lot.

Again I'm not saying we are better with OBJ, I honestly didn't want to make the trade and was one of the first to stand up and say "we look better without him" even though it seemed ridiculous.  I think we should trade him and get something for him.  I just want to give our team a chance to help his trade value, and quite frankly give it a chance to see if we can make this work.  See if we can make baker force the ball less to him and keep spreading the field even with him on it...

I guess where you are is just where I was last offseason.  It didn’t work, let’s move on imo.

[NateDawg]

5 hours ago, mtmmike said:

I would rather have 3 1000 yard receivers then 2

🤯 You always say things I just don’t even think to say. Invaluable. 

[NudeTayne]

57 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

🤯 You always say things I just don’t even think to say. Invaluable. 

@malibuspeedrace is DOA. It's time to call it.

[big poppa pump]

32 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

@malibuspeedrace is DOA. It's time to call it.

Never really had a chance

 

[Thomas5737]

I don't even think we have to follow the process, I think we can just induct him now. Why waste time with nominations and votes.

Congrats Mike, you are now in the HOF. It is up to you who you choose to replace. You can eliminate any current member of the Browns forum HOF and take their seat. Choose wisely.

[NudeTayne]

27 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I don't even think we have to follow the process, I think we can just induct him now. Why waste time with nominations and votes.

Congrats Mike, you are now in the HOF. It is up to you who you choose to replace. You can eliminate any current member of the Browns forum HOF and take their seat. Choose wisely.

Seconded

[DawgX]

35 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I don't even think we have to follow the process, I think we can just induct him now. Why waste time with nominations and votes.

Congrats Mike, you are now in the HOF. It is up to you who you choose to replace. You can eliminate any current member of the Browns forum HOF and take their seat. Choose wisely.

Can we vote in @malibuspeedrace real quick just for Mike to instantly take his place?

[NudeTayne]

6 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Can we vote in @malibuspeedrace real quick just for Mike to instantly take his place?

Was literally about to post this. Seconded*

Edited December 10, 2020 by NudeTayne
*but only if it's for Mike to immediately rightfully take back.

[DawgX]

2 hours ago, NateDawg said:

🤯 You always say things I just don’t even think to say. Invaluable. 

Ingenious thoughts like that are why MIke is living the dream in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

[NudeTayne]

20 hours ago, mtmmike said:

Ingenious thoughts like that are why MIke is living the dream in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

Yup. We're not worthy.

[mtmmike]

No worries just having fun

What chance do you think we have at winning 13 games 

My own prediction is 20 percent because Pittsburgh maybe playing for there life if they have to win 3 games on the road without Dupree and Bush

[mtmmike]

Thank you everybody  not to bad for a illiterate. 

Let's get back to talking about football