The New York Jets

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

Analysts piling on the Jets for winning and saying they should have lost are completely gutless and that kind of talk is garbage and a terrible look for the NFL brand. 

Two weeks ago everyone hated the Jets for losing to the Raiders. Now everyone hates them for winning a game.

Jets players have a fan in me. These guys have likely only ever played football as their only experience. These grown men are trying to feed their families and some losers in their basement and on the tv are saying they should be trying to lose and they’re losers because they won. 

First overall pick doesn’t mean jack if you’re a host of losers. 

[incognito_man]

This doesn't matter because Trevor Lawrence is going to bust anyway. They probably saved themselves 5 years of continued hope -> misery.

[ET80]

11 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I get what you're saying. I just don't love the mindset

Totally get it - I was listening to Seth Payne on 610 and he described this as the Silicon Valley model, which I liked. Early on, companies would throw everything against the wall to see what would stick. They'd fail, but they would admit the failure quickly and move on.

That's sort of the change the NFL is going through now. We saw Arizona admit failure on Josh Rosen and move on to Kyler Murray, we're going to see Football Team admit failure on Dwayne Haskins and move onto someone (Trey Lance?) and we're probably going to see NYJ admit failure on Sam Darnold and move on to Justin Fields. That's 99% what's going to happen, I see that.

My question is - was the failure on Darnold, or was he the victim of failure? I personally believe he's the victim of failure.

[.Buzz]

3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Totally get it - I was listening to Seth Payne on 610 and he described this as the Silicon Valley model, which I liked. Early on, companies would throw everything against the wall to see what would stick. They'd fail, but they would admit the failure quickly and move on.

That's sort of the change the NFL is going through now. We saw Arizona admit failure on Josh Rosen and move on to Kyler Murray, we're going to see Football Team admit failure on Dwayne Haskins and move onto someone (Trey Lance?) and we're probably going to see NYJ admit failure on Sam Darnold and move on to Justin Fields. That's 99% what's going to happen, I see that.

My question is - was the failure on Darnold, or was he the victim of failure? I personally believe he's the victim of failure.

I had reservations on Darnold as a prospect. So I don't know if I can say one way or another.

Do I think he was given the short end of the stick and wasn't helped by the organization to succeed? Definitely. Had he gotten better weapons and coaching would he be their future/a top 10 QB in the league? Also skeptical on this, but maybe? These guys are just so volatile and so much goes into whether they work out.

I get what you're saying overall though. I just think you always need to be drafting a QB (especially at the top) if you don't have "the guy" right now. 

[SDotNova]

9 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

Analysts piling on the Jets for winning and saying they should have lost are completely gutless and that kind of talk is garbage and a terrible look for the NFL brand. 

Two weeks ago everyone hated the Jets for losing to the Raiders. Now everyone hates them for winning a game.

Jets players have a fan in me. These guys have likely only ever played football as their only experience. These grown men are trying to feed their families and some losers in their basement and on the tv are saying they should be trying to lose and they’re losers because they won. 

First overall pick doesn’t mean jack if you’re a host of losers. 

The Raiders stuff was always a joke. Anyone who watches the Jets knows that the players and coaches have been trying win every single game. They just suck. That Gregg call was vintage Gregg Williams. He thought it was the right call.

We’ve won more meaningless games than any franchise in history. 

[jrry32]

31 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Exactly - I don't see Fields or Wilson as guys who can make chicken salad out of chicken you-know-what. They're not elevating their guys in the same vein as a Rodgers/Mahomes/Wilson/Watson - they need to fill the roster out a bit with quality talent before they can put in a Fields or Wilson.

I get the "Silicon Valley" model is now en vogue in the NFL - fail as frequently as you can, but admit failure and move on ASAP - but Darnold isn't the failure, IMO. The roster construction around Darnold is the failure.

Each of the guys you named would have been drafted much earlier than they were if teams thought they would elevate the guys around them the way they have. What's my point? I don't think there was a consensus that those guys would make chicken salad out of chicken poop when they were prospects either.

[SDotNova]

We’re the most cursed franchise in sports. And it’s not even debatable at this point.

To answer the question - trade back or draft Sewell. We’re not the type of franchise then can work with a project QB. Fields has all the tools. They will all go to waste in NY.

Better for us to just keep building the team around the QB. If Sam turns it around, great. Otherwise we’d be drafting top 8 again next year anyways.

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

9 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

This doesn't matter because Trevor Lawrence is going to bust anyway. They probably saved themselves 5 years of continued hope -> misery.

I have absolutely nothing against Lawrence but part of me hopes he is a bust just so everyone can shut up about tanking.

3 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

The Raiders stuff was always a joke. Anyone who watches the Jets knows that the players and coaches have been trying win every single game. They just suck. That Gregg call was vintage Gregg Williams. He thought it was the right call.

We’ve won more meaningless games than any franchise in history. 

Dude I guarantee that they’ve been working their tails off. People don’t seem to realize how many good football players there are in America. Even getting exposure to get into the league you have won a lottery. They’ve worked their entire lives, and now some “analyst” is on tv saying they should have lost. 

It’s a really gross look.

Edited December 21, 2020 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[Magnifico]

They should select the best QB prospect at #2.

Absolutely no point in selecting a WR/LT/whatever, winning 4-7 games next year, finishing bottom of the division or worse, 2nd bottom, and not being able to select a prime QB prospect when they had the chance in 2020.

Everyone, rightfully, thinks the Eagles should move on from Wentz. The Jets should do the same with Darnold, admittedly he's been given nowhere near as much help, but nows the time to cut the cord and start again. Get a 5th/6th off a team like the Steelers/Saints/Colts if they want to try and help him.

[Tk3]

3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Totally get it - I was listening to Seth Payne on 610 and he described this as the Silicon Valley model, which I liked. Early on, companies would throw everything against the wall to see what would stick. They'd fail, but they would admit the failure quickly and move on.

That's sort of the change the NFL is going through now. We saw Arizona admit failure on Josh Rosen and move on to Kyler Murray, we're going to see Football Team admit failure on Dwayne Haskins and move onto someone (Trey Lance?) and we're probably going to see NYJ admit failure on Sam Darnold and move on to Justin Fields. That's 99% what's going to happen, I see that.

My question is - was the failure on Darnold, or was he the victim of failure? I personally believe he's the victim of failure.

This is a really good conversation point. It's not a novel question to ask about a player's surrounding cast (we had decades of wondering if a drafted QB could ever be good in Buffalo or Cleveland for example, or if the team would just ruin them) - but it IS something with new relevance after some 2020 breakouts

How much of Josh Allen's and Kyler Murray's ascendance is due to actual growth, and how much is due to giving them Stefon Diggs and DeAndre Hopkins, respectively?

Was Mahomes always going to be great and Trubisky always going to be bad, or does the Chiefs coaching and surrounding cast have a large part to play in it?

I'm increasingly convinced that you have ONE additional offseason to set your young QB up. One.

Bengals drafted Joe Burrow - they NEED to give him an offensive line. THIS OFFSEASON. If Jet's want to move on from Darnold and get Lawrence, they NEED to add some OL or a WR NOW, and then finish the job next offseason

[Tk3]

3 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

We’re the most cursed franchise in sports. And it’s not even debatable at this point.

To answer the question - trade back or draft Sewell. We’re not the type of franchise then can work with a project QB. Fields has all the tools. They will all go to waste in NY.

Better for us to just keep building the team around the QB. If Sam turns it around, great. Otherwise we’d be drafting top 8 again next year anyways.

IMO you trade down

Adding Zach Wilson into the conversation you have 4 early QBs. If an Atlanta or a Carolina or a Dallas or a Detroit want to trade up because they specifically like one guy - then I'm taking that deal. Jets need a lot of things. You can pick up some significant assets and still get one of the 4 QBs

[TheKillerNacho]

The decision to let Gase fire Gregg Williams looks pretty bad now.

[.Buzz]

Maybe it's my outlook assuming Fields was (still could be) a Jaguar for the last couple months. We have a decent OL, good talent at the WR position, and a legit RB. Him coming in with little around him was never a worry.

But I still think you have to take the guy with franchise altering upside when your in position. Always will be my belief when your in position and don't have that guy on the roster. If you want to say Darnold may be able to turn it around, fine, but I'm not putting all my chips in that basket and risking it. 

As I said, what's the outlook on Douglas next year if both/either of Fields/Wilson look like long term fixtures? 

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

I have absolutely nothing against Lawrence but part of me hopes he is a bust just so everyone can shut up about tanking.

He reminds me of Vince Young. Just screams "maxed out in college" to me. Wonky throwing motion. I don't like him as an NFL QB.

[SDotNova]

1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

Maybe it's my outlook assuming Fields was a Jaguar for the last couple months. We have a decent OL, good talent at the WR position, and RB. Him coming in with little around him was never a worry.

But I still think you have to take the guy with franchise altering upside when your in position. Always will be my belief when your in position and don't have that guy on the roster. If you want to say Darnold may be able to turn it around, fine, but I'm not putting all my chips in that basket and risking it.

There lies the difference. Part of why the Jets have been a QB black hole is because we don’t build around the QB properly. Sánchez’ first couple of years might be the exception in recent years. We don’t have the supporting cast to allow Fields to develop. Look at what we did to Sam? Both are pretty similar prospects. Fields might be slightly better because of his long ball. We do have $90 million in cap space. So that’ll go a long way.