Winston and Mariota vs Goff and Wentz

[Soko]

6 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Hinting at field position? Ok, let me rephrase it as defense does not DIRECTLY help a QB as they are not on field at the same time, simple. They have 0 influence on how a QB looks when you are watching them. They may may however influence their stats in a number of ways, although I would say it's generally not by much. If you have a really dominant defense, one that forces TOs and shuts opposing offenses down, then you'll have several more close TD opportunities, but also less pass attempts.

It effects the game, which effects the QB.

Trash defense giving up points? Going to be in a lot more (undesirable) pass scenarios. Makes the defense play the pass more than the run, making it harder for the QB - facing more pressure, throwing into tighter windows. It’s what happens when you’re forced to throw more.

Defense can’t stop anyone? The coach/OC has a different game plan, even before the opening kickoff. The playcalls change, third down becomes more critical, playcalling becomes less conservative and thus more risky.

So sure, they’re not on the field at the same time, but a good defense (or great, in your 17’ Eagles’ case) certainly helps a quarterback. Directly, indirectly, whatever - defense helps a QB quite a bit. 

[jrry32]

6 hours ago, Chiefer said:

On the run, Woods coming open near the sideline, i see Carson hitting him to keep the game alive.

I remember Aikman saying that it was an "easy throw"(doubtful Aikman could hit that lol) and how could Goff miss it.

Just my observation. Goff played a great game, that stuff just happens sometimes. 

 

Whoa nelly, that's a terrible opinion. 

[Oregon Ducks]

It's too bad Winston isn't holding up his end of the bargain. Chump.

# of playoff wins:

Mariota = 1

Goff + Wentz + Winston = 0

[jrry32]

12 hours ago, eagles18 said:

Rams holding onto the little relevancy they have had since 1999.. If Philly doesn't knock you out of the playoffs, the saints will. Yesterday's game shows, stop Gurley, force Goff to beat you. 

9 hours ago, eagles18 said:

it was 35-17 at one point... then the trademark collapse of the saints defense happened. While good, Goff doesn't scare anyone. 

I shouldn't have read this thread. I didn't realize there was this much ignorance contained in it. Woof. Scalding hot takes here. Maybe Philly fans should focus on making the playoffs before they try to come in and attack our QB for playing better football than theirs.

[RandyMossIsBoss]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

It effects the game, which effects the QB.

Trash defense giving up points? Going to be in a lot more (undesirable) pass scenarios. Makes the defense play the pass more than the run, making it harder for the QB - facing more pressure, throwing into tighter windows. It’s what happens when you’re forced to throw more.

Defense can’t stop anyone? The coach/OC has a different game plan, even before the opening kickoff. The playcalls change, third down becomes more critical, playcalling becomes less conservative and thus more risky.

So sure, they’re not on the field at the same time, but a good defense (or great, in your 17’ Eagles’ case) certainly helps a quarterback. Directly, indirectly, whatever - defense helps a QB quite a bit. 

I guess I can see how it effects it more than a little on the extreme ends, but even then that I would say that pales in comparison to again, the 10 men on the field you are actually playing with. I mean playing your game, if you're surrounded by enough talent and are good enough you will score so much that opposing teams will not be able to keep up even if you don't have a great defense (see: 2018 Rams and Chiefs).  If people think a top 5 defense, Alshon, Agholor, Ertz, Ajayi/Blount/Clement and arguably the best OL is a more favorable situation for a QB (not a team, just the QB) than an average defense, Cooks, Woods, Kupp, Gurley and a top 3 OL, then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Maybe I am under appreciating that offensive cast from 2017, although clearly I wouldn't be the only one since nobody seems to think very highly of that team, historically speaking.

 

Also let's just this into the Goff vs Wentz thread, thread title is halfway there. Winston and Mariota might not even see 2nd contracts with the team that drafted them.

[Soko]

1 minute ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

I guess I can see how it effects it more than a little on the extreme ends, but even then that I would say that pales in comparison to again, the 10 men on the field you are actually playing with. I mean playing your game, if you're surrounded by enough talent and are good enough you will score so much that opposing teams will not be able to keep up even if you don't have a great defense (see: 2018 Rams and Chiefs).  If people think a top 5 defense, Alshon, Agholor, Ertz, Ajayi/Blount/Clement and arguably the best OL is a more favorable situation for a QB (not a team, just the QB) than an average defense, Cooks, Woods, Kupp, Gurley and a top 3 OL, then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Maybe I am under appreciating that offensive cast from 2017, although clearly I wouldn't be the only one since nobody seems to think very highly of that team, historically speaking.

 

Also let's just this into the Goff vs Wentz thread, thread title is halfway there. Winston and Mariota might not even see 2nd contracts with the team that drafted them.

Yeah, how much an elite defense helps a QB vs an elite offensive supporting cast, is up for debate. I’m not really hopping into the 17’ Eagles and 18’ Rams debate. 

Just commenting that an elite defense certainly helps a quarterback and the offense as a whole. Think we’re on the same page now, homes.

[jrry32]

48 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

I guess I can see how it effects it more than a little on the extreme ends, but even then that I would say that pales in comparison to again, the 10 men on the field you are actually playing with. I mean playing your game, if you're surrounded by enough talent and are good enough you will score so much that opposing teams will not be able to keep up even if you don't have a great defense (see: 2018 Rams and Chiefs).  If people think a top 5 defense, Alshon, Agholor, Ertz, Ajayi/Blount/Clement and arguably the best OL is a more favorable situation for a QB (not a team, just the QB) than an average defense, Cooks, Woods, Kupp, Gurley and a top 3 OL, then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Maybe I am under appreciating that offensive cast from 2017, although clearly I wouldn't be the only one since nobody seems to think very highly of that team, historically speaking.

 

Also let's just this into the Goff vs Wentz thread, thread title is halfway there. Winston and Mariota might not even see 2nd contracts with the team that drafted them.

I think they're equally favorable situations. Our offensive talent is better, while your defense made Wentz's job easier. Goff has already had 4 shootouts (arguably 5) in 9 games this year. It puts a lot of pressure on the offense to be in a situation where you feel you have to score every drive. 

[KellChippy]

12 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I think they're equally favorable situations. Our offensive talent is better, while your defense made Wentz's job easier. Goff has already had 4 shootouts (arguably 5) in 9 games this year. It puts a lot of pressure on the offense to be in a situation where you feel you have to score every drive. 

I don’t disagree,  but it’s worth noting a good offense helps a defense as well. Especially when they’re built to play with a lead.  Our defense really shined last year with a lead when teams were pressured to score touchdowns. 

Our defense last year was much better than your defense has been playing, but they were also put in constant favorable situations by our offense.

I don’t feel strongly either way whose offensive cast is/was better at this point in the season.  I think most QBs would be successful on both teams if I’m being honest.  Just not Jameis.

[Chiefer]

13 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Whoa nelly, that's a terrible opinion. 

I think Carson has got better arm talent than Goff.

[El Ramster]

7 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

I think Carson has got better arm talent than Goff.

Not really. Specially when Goff has the better accuracy. 

[Breesus mode]

19 hours ago, Non-Issue said:

Or until McVay and Goff adjusted. But sure, the "trademark collapse" of a 7-1 team.  Goff doesnt need to scare anyone as long as he can put up 400 yards and 3 TDs with a 115 rating with Gurley being "taken away."

But please, tell us more about that quality win vs the Jags. 

The Saints defense is well known for blowing leads and games Drew Brees has given us

[Danger]

14 hours ago, Oregon Ducks said:

It's too bad Winston isn't holding up his end of the bargain. Chump.

# of playoff wins:

Mariota = 1

Goff + Wentz + Winston = 0

lol such a troll. 

[Breesus mode]

14 hours ago, Oregon Ducks said:

It's too bad Winston isn't holding up his end of the bargain. Chump.

# of playoff wins:

Mariota = 1

Goff + Wentz + Winston = 0

Damn, didn't realize Wentz got cut during the super bowl run. 

 

[Oregon Ducks]

2 minutes ago, Breesus mode said:

Damn, didn't realize Wentz got cut during the super bowl run. 

 

Really bro? That's your argument?

[Breesus mode]

8 minutes ago, Oregon Ducks said:

Really bro? That's your argument?

Yup