ESPN's Adam Schefter: Fangio will return next year

[big_palooka]

57 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

He made your defense look like the 2015 Broncos last time, we’ll see.

Touché... that was the last time the Raiders looked like they actually had a defense sadly. 

I think that game they hit him early and he didn't want anymore of it. Got skittish after taking that hit

[Broncofan]

3 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

If I had to pick out of those 2 honestly it would be Winston.  Yeah he’s gonna lose ya some games, but he’s capable of putting up a monster game and that’s what it takes to beat the chiefs 

Trust me I’m totally fine with either but Winston offers long term hope too.   His weakness is not seeing the underneath guy.   It’s weird because it accounts for over half his picks.   Who knows if it’s fixed but a year under Sean Payton and LASIK surgery who knows.  He won’t cost a lot so I’m all for that or Fitzmagic if we don’t go Rd1 rookie.   We just can’t go into next season solely with the hope the light comes on with Lock.   

[rcpbawler]

It may not be the best option for the team but Winston is easily the most exciting. Winston throwing to Sutton, Jeudy, KJ Patrick and Fant. It may not be as top heavy as the Mike Evans/Chris Godwin and an underutilized OJ Howard corps but better overall. 

Fitzpatrick isn't inspiring to me and if you're bringing him in to "win now" I think you'd be making a mistake. He wasn't anything more than a good game manager this season before they went to Tua and his history is the model of inconsistency. He's the perfect backup and great coming out of the bullpen to throw 98 for a half but not someone I want to start the season.

[1234567]

I’m ok with this; we’ve put all the young pieces in place and we were injured this year. If they are or are not “the guys”, we’ll know it in year 3, and there’s no point in endlessly blowing up the coaching staff every 2 years. If we are still terrible next year, then clean house. Plus, Lock to me is continuing to improve. If Jeudy could catch, Drew would have actually had a pretty decent game yesterday. The Hail Mary pick likely disappears, and you can add another 50 yards and 10% completion percentage. Not to mention the TD drop. That’s a big swing all because of one wideout who can’t catch. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by 1234567

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, rcpbawler said:

It may not be the best option for the team but Winston is easily the most exciting. Winston throwing to Sutton, Jeudy, KJ Patrick and Fant. It may not be as top heavy as the Mike Evans/Chris Godwin and an underutilized OJ Howard corps but better overall. 

Fitzpatrick isn't inspiring to me and if you're bringing him in to "win now" I think you'd be making a mistake. He wasn't anything more than a good game manager this season before they went to Tua and his history is the model of inconsistency. He's the perfect backup and great coming out of the bullpen to throw 98 for a half but not someone I want to start the season.

I’m on the Winston train out of all the guys left too.   Just saying I’m ok with Fitz as the floor.   But he does nothing long term which is why I’d rather go with Winston (or Darnold if it only cost a 3rd but that ship has sailed).  
 

I’m kinda hoping @Counselor has that dream where we end up with Lance or Winston vet-wise though.   Realistically Lance seems like our only draft scenario, Winston the young FA route (big no on Trubisky before ppl ask lol).    

[BroncoBruin]

Yeah, how can you not be intrigued by Jameis? Because a Stafford trade feels unrealistic, Jameis is the one guy I think has any chance to come in and just light it up in this offense and elevate the team. He has that ability. As we’ve seen, he also has the ability to send a couple AFC West linebackers and corners to the Pro Bowl. 

But the ceiling is real. Bucs were a top 3 scoring offense with Jameis. He’s a great fit for the kind of offense Shurmur wanted to run before it became clear that Lock needed the more traditional WCO passing game. 

[jsthomp2007]

If you like interceptions, you will love Winston. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

8 hours ago, broncos67 said:

It has? Curious what makes you say that?

I don't say it to sound arrogant, but I follow a lot of this stuff closer than just about everyone and Schefter has had some bad misses of late. He's gotten things wrong in attempts to be first, he's gotten sidetracked, he's become an advocate for his opinion on a multitude of topics, he's gotten into unprofessional and childish spats on social media with other reporters and with fans. He's just become part of the general armpit of sports media that is ESPN. 

I'm not bashing him, per se, as a reporter, he is exceptionally well-connected. The problem is, and we here often, and rightly, accuse Mike Klis of this as regards the Broncos, he is a mouthpiece for the powers that be, he helps shape the desired narratives, he toes the company line, he parrots talking points and he does all of it to keep in the good graces of the who's who crowd and keep his information flowing. He takes information from agents (the worst sources possible) and puts it out as facts. 

I guess it's modern journalism; we see it in much, much, much, much, much ..... much more egregious examples in the business and political "media," trading access for favorable coverage or taking a side to be viewed as friendly. I believe in independent media to hold the powerful accountable and be the conduits of fair, unbiased and unassailable information to the public (be they fans, shareholders or taxpayers). Now, this is a two-way street, those withholding information, spinning things their way, deceiving or outright lying to the press are just as guilty as the "journalists" to eat it up and spit it out on Twitter and then other platforms to be first with the news. It's a race to the bottom.

I, for one, believe that the powers that be at any and every level should be terrified of journalists and the journalists should be unafraid to share whatever news, good or bad, without fear of reprisals. If you got it first that the Broncos signed Peyton Manning, that big pharma inc. got FDA approval for their latest wonder drug or that the president helped brokered a Mideast peace deal, good job. If you got it first the team covered up a player's DUI, a company lied about the risks in using their flamethrower or the president had an affair with the secretary of state's wife and they cut off your access, or you bury the news to keep your access, shame on you, shame on them or shame on both of you. 

[Orangecrush151]

I just don’t get how people bash lock for his horrid picks and decisions but can back Winston? Dude is an int machine

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, Orangecrush151 said:

I just don’t get how people bash lock for his horrid picks and decisions but can back Winston? Dude is an int machine

Probably the lasik lol it's the same guy rn I actually think Lock manages a game better

[Orangecrush151]

5 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Probably the lasik lol it's the same guy rn I actually think Lock manages a game better

Yea, I just don’t see it. Same thing that people hype up tua in press. Imo that dude looks like doodoo. And looks like he has a weenie arm lol

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, Orangecrush151 said:

I just don’t get how people bash lock for his horrid picks and decisions but can back Winston? Dude is an int machine

Because for all of Winston’s TO issues - he makes plays and produces - and on teams that were putting them in catch up (TAM’s D turnaround in the past 2 years is the pre-eminent difference to their success - from bottom 5 in 2016-8 to now top 5 by DVOA).    There isn’t a Q if Winston can make the tough throws or hang in vs.  pressure.  Plus a large number of picks comes down to 1 issue (not seeing the underneath guy).    That’s a far more fixable problem.    And for context - Winston has done it with bottom 10 OL play in 2016-9 (31st & 23rd by DVOA the last 2 years - whereas upgrading 3 spots has them at 10th this year). 

Lock’s flaws haven’t improved - and his flaws limit his ability to succeed vs. NFL D’s far more than Winston’s do.   Bad footwork vs. pressure, bailing with eyes down (which is new), and intermediate - deep ball accuracy issues are killers that limit ceiling.   The hope was we’d see progress with time.   We haven’t though.   That’s damning to a huge degree.   

The other part that's been touched on in other threads when discussing vets like Alex Smith - the skill set Winston (and Fitzmagic) possess fit a Shurmur O far better than other vets.    You want a guy who can push the ball downfield, especially with the weapons we have on O.   You don't want a dink and dunk guy - but a guy who actually can push it, but also recognize when to dump it off if the deep / intermediate ball isn't there.   It's easy to find checkdown guys - but guys who can do both, much harder to find.    Right now, the 2 vets who are likely available that absolutely fit - Winston & Fitzmagic.   If you are looking to go rookie / get a caretaker vet, then the options change...but if you are thinking Lock isn't the guy, you then look for fits for a Shurmur O.    Hence the interest in Winston (& Fitzmagic, albeit truly as a caretaker in the latter).  It's probably why there was interest in Darnold as well, when the thinking was that he could be had relatively cheaply (who knows now).

Keep in mind these vets are brought in to compete for the job, not handed outright.   But when you look at the context and absolute lack of growth, it’s frankly no surprise the FO wants to hedge their bets with a vet (at the very least).  

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Broncofan

[DiehardBronxFan]

13 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Because for all of Winston’s TO issues - he makes plays and produces - and on teams that were putting them in catch up (TAM’s D turnaround in the past 2 years is the pre-eminent difference to their success - from bottom 5 in 2016-8 to now top 5 by DVOA).    There isn’t a Q if Winston can make the tough throws or hang in vs.  pressure.  Plus a large number of picks comes down to 1 issue (not seeing the underneath guy).    That’s a far more fixable problem.    And for context - Winston has done it with bottom 10 OL play in 2016-9 (31st & 23rd by DVOA the last 2 years - whereas upgrading 3 spots has them at 10th this year). 

Lock’s flaws haven’t improved - and his flaws limit his ability to succeed vs. NFL D’s far more than Winston’s do.   Bad footwork vs. pressure, bailing with eyes down (which is new), and intermediate - deep ball accuracy issues are killers that limit ceiling.   The hope was we’d see progress with time.   We haven’t though.   That’s damning to a huge degree.   

The other part that's been touched on in other threads when discussing vets like Alex Smith - the skill set Winston (and Fitzmagic) possess fit a Shurmur O far better than other vets.    You want a guy who can push the ball downfield, especially with the weapons we have on O.   You don't want a dink and dunk guy - but a guy who actually can push it, but also recognize when to dump it off if the deep / intermediate ball isn't there.   It's easy to find checkdown guys - but guys who can do both, much harder to find.    Right now, the 2 vets who are likely available that absolutely fit - Winston & Fitzmagic.   If you are looking to go rookie / get a caretaker vet, then the options change...but if you are thinking Lock isn't the guy, you then look for fits for a Shurmur O.    Hence the interest in Winston (& Fitzmagic, albeit truly as a caretaker in the latter).  It's probably why there was interest in Darnold as well, when the thinking was that he could be had relatively cheaply (who knows now).

Keep in mind these vets are brought in to compete for the job, not handed outright.   But when you look at the context and absolute lack of growth, it’s frankly no surprise the FO wants to hedge their bets with a vet (at the very least).  

 

 

 

Absolute lack of growth?  We’re not watching the same guy.  I get how people could be concerned about Lock, but to claim there has been an absolute lack of growth is just flat out wrong.  Not improving as fast as we would all like? Sure.  Ok.  But the trend over the course of the year in unequivocally upward.  Seeing defenses better. Manipulating defenses with his eyes, pre-snap adjustments, bailing with eyes down?

I’m of the general belief that players make much more progress between seasons than they do in-season.  With no real off-season, no pre-season games, a new OC, a bunch of rookies, an injury (which lingered for a few weeks), and more than a few “virtual” practices during the course of the year, progress was always going to be a challenge.  But it has occurred.  I remain optimistic a full, real off-season with some continuity will provide a chance for step-function improvement. 
 

But to bail on Lock to go with the guy that through 30 interceptions, and make excuses for THAT guy?  Don’t get it.  Want no part of it.  Let’s give the guy with 16 games under his belt and that still has a chance to improve further the opportunity to do so, instead of wasting our time with the one that’s already had a chance to fix their issues, and proven they can’t. 

[Broncofan]

37 minutes ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

Absolute lack of growth?  We’re not watching the same guy.  I get how people could be concerned about Lock, but to claim there has been an absolute lack of growth is just flat out wrong.  Not improving as fast as we would all like? Sure.  Ok.  But the trend over the course of the year in unequivocally upward.  Seeing defenses better. Manipulating defenses with his eyes, pre-snap adjustments, bailing with eyes down?

I’m of the general belief that players make much more progress between seasons than they do in-season.  With no real off-season, no pre-season games, a new OC, a bunch of rookies, an injury (which lingered for a few weeks), and more than a few “virtual” practices during the course of the year, progress was always going to be a challenge.  But it has occurred.  I remain optimistic a full, real off-season with some continuity will provide a chance for step-function improvement. 
 

But to bail on Lock to go with the guy that through 30 interceptions, and make excuses for THAT guy?  Don’t get it.  Want no part of it.  Let’s give the guy with 16 games under his belt and that still has a chance to improve further the opportunity to do so, instead of wasting our time with the one that’s already had a chance to fix their issues, and proven they can’t. 

No one is saying the FO bails on Lock - but bringing a viable vet who can step In if Lock can’t take the step up.    If they are going Lock / vet route there’s little point in getting a check down guy - Shurmur’s system calls for a vertical thrower.   Out of all the bets available two fit this mold - Winston & Fitz.   

If we go Rd1 rookie then yes the FO is bailing.   But barring that - they can also hedge their bets and bring in a vet that actually fits the system.   And who can take the job completely if what we’re seeing with Lock this year is as good as it gets.   Because it’s not even close to good enough.  
 

Given the very resl uncertainty Lock presents - there’s  no way putting all the org’s eggs in Lock’s basket is a smart idea.   Nothing he’s done merits that.  

Edited January 1, 2021 by Broncofan

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

Absolute lack of growth?  We’re not watching the same guy.  I get how people could be concerned about Lock, but to claim there has been an absolute lack of growth is just flat out wrong.  Not improving as fast as we would all like? Sure.  Ok.  But the trend over the course of the year in unequivocally upward.  Seeing defenses better. Manipulating defenses with his eyes, pre-snap adjustments, bailing with eyes down?

I’m of the general belief that players make much more progress between seasons than they do in-season.  With no real off-season, no pre-season games, a new OC, a bunch of rookies, an injury (which lingered for a few weeks), and more than a few “virtual” practices during the course of the year, progress was always going to be a challenge.  But it has occurred.  I remain optimistic a full, real off-season with some continuity will provide a chance for step-function improvement. 
 

But to bail on Lock to go with the guy that through 30 interceptions, and make excuses for THAT guy?  Don’t get it.  Want no part of it.  Let’s give the guy with 16 games under his belt and that still has a chance to improve further the opportunity to do so, instead of wasting our time with the one that’s already had a chance to fix their issues, and proven they can’t. 

I'm no Lock fan and he continues to frustrate me but I agree with ya. I'd like to see an adult in the QB room though. Not as competition but more as a mentor and reliable backup, someone that can teach Lock how to be a pro, both in the film room and study and on the field. I think Fitz would be great.

I don't want to have an open competition at the position in TC at all. If the FO doesn't think Locks the guy fine. Trade Lock and bring in your new designated starter by draft, trade or FA. Just have that starter designated by TC.