thebestever6 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I think a ball control offense is more important than anything. If you can limit other teams possessions like chiefs and Chargers, while controlling the football and killing clock you're gonna win a lot of ball games. I'd love to see that 05' plummer offense versus these high scoring Offenses man they could eat up clock, and if they had a run game Jake looked more than serviceable. I'd love to get that back from Alabama in the second man if Drew can just turn into Jake we'd be in great shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: I think a ball control offense is more important than anything. If you can limit other teams possessions like chiefs and Chargers, while controlling the football and killing clock you're gonna win a lot of ball games. I'd love to see that 05' plummer offense versus these high scoring Offenses man they could eat up clock, and if they had a run game Jake looked more than serviceable. I'd love to get that back from Alabama in the second man if Drew can just turn into Jake we'd be in great shape. Ball control offense is valuable (see: Ravens), but the only issue in today's NFL is if you get down by 2+ scores with a ball control offense, you better have another gear to kick into to close that gap. The Ravens are one such team that struggles when they get behind because Jackson's passing skills are more limited. I think the Packers are an example of a team where this philosophy works. Can obviously throw all over the field with Rodgers, but will also try and grind you with Jones/Williams/Dillon. Tennessee is the other obvious example. I like offenses like that, but it's easier said than done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, broncos67 said: Ball control offense is valuable (see: Ravens), but the only issue in today's NFL is if you get down by 2+ scores with a ball control offense, you better have another gear to kick into to close that gap. The Ravens are one such team that struggles when they get behind because Jackson's passing skills are more limited. I think the Packers are an example of a team where this philosophy works. Can obviously throw all over the field with Rodgers, but will also try and grind you with Jones/Williams/Dillon. Tennessee is the other obvious example. I like offenses like that, but it's easier said than done. I even think the Colts were impressive I mean rivers didn't have a canon this year just very efficient. Our line realiscally is ready for that kind of offense shouldn't be that hard. I like that I from the colts I'd love to go after him next year. And I think an average to above average passer could come behind two scores. Drew has to get there or I saw reports Andy Dalton is being considered. Wouldn't hate it he's never had a defense as good as Fsngios. Gotta get the run game there though we got weapons all over the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, broncos67 said: Ball control offense is valuable (see: Ravens), but the only issue in today's NFL is if you get down by 2+ scores with a ball control offense, you better have another gear to kick into to close that gap. The Ravens are one such team that struggles when they get behind because Jackson's passing skills are more limited. I think the Packers are an example of a team where this philosophy works. Can obviously throw all over the field with Rodgers, but will also try and grind you with Jones/Williams/Dillon. Tennessee is the other obvious example. I like offenses like that, but it's easier said than done. Actually, the best example of that were our late 90's teams. I've never seen better. With a lead in the 4th they were all but unbeatable. Run it down your throat at about 5 ypc and if you loaded the box to stop it, well you got Elway, Sharp, Smith, McCaffery, etc. I' loved watching that offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Rodgers is the best QB to play in that offense since Elway too. And like the Broncos’ 90s OL, Packers have an elite group. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 15 hours ago, AKRNA said: Actually, the best example of that were our late 90's teams. I've never seen better. With a lead in the 4th they were all but unbeatable. Run it down your throat at about 5 ypc and if you loaded the box to stop it, well you got Elway, Sharp, Smith, McCaffery, etc. I' loved watching that offense. Oh for sure. I agree- was just trying to think of teams in recent times with that kind of approach. There's not many- not shocking because of how the game has evolved. That said, you can kind of see that Minnesota has tried to play that way. They have an elite (Top 3-5) RB in Dalvin Cook, very solid WRs, a good OL, and they've been trying to hit on that QB position to make it all come together. I'd be thrilled to go back to that kind of offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 5 hours ago, broncos67 said: Oh for sure. I agree- was just trying to think of teams in recent times with that kind of approach. There's not many- not shocking because of how the game has evolved. That said, you can kind of see that Minnesota has tried to play that way. They have an elite (Top 3-5) RB in Dalvin Cook, very solid WRs, a good OL, and they've been trying to hit on that QB position to make it all come together. I'd be thrilled to go back to that kind of offense. I’d be all for that as well. Unfortunately we have Pat Shurmur as OC and he quite clearly prefers to run mostly 11 personnel, rarely use the RBs in the passing game and employ a 60/40 to 65/35 pass/run ratio. If Paton decides to move forward with the Lock/vet journeyman route next year (which should result in Lock winning the starting job), I’m on board with keeping Shurmur just to give Lock and the young offense a chance to succeed. However, if we trade for an established vet (Watson, Stafford, et al) then I’d have problem finding a new OC. All that said, it’s a moot point because hiring/firing season is over and whatever route we go at QB it will be Shurmur calling the shots for at least one more year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 shurmur hire was so brutal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Given that Kubiak has been with the Vikings for the past year - is there any possibility that Paton moves to bring him back to Denver in some capacity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, jolly red giant said: Given that Kubiak has been with the Vikings for the past year - is there any possibility that Paton moves to bring him back to Denver in some capacity? We do have an opening for the Matt Russell job... But I just got a text alert, literally as I was typing the above sentence fragment, that Kubiak announced his retirement from pro football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 14 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: We do have an opening for the Matt Russell job... But I just got a text alert, literally as I was typing the above sentence fragment, that Kubiak announced his retirement from pro football. Yea - the news popped up for me shortly after I posted it I think it would be good if Kubiak was connected with the team in some capacity - even if only as an 'ambassadorial' role. I have a lot of time for the guy and think he was underrated both as a player and as a coach (and even in the FO - the first decent draft in years came with him there). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) Regarding the Player Personnel Director (Matt Russell) job, Klis was banging the drum for a minority hire right around the time that Paton was announced as the GM; he kept stating it was Joe Ellis’ desire to have a more diverse front office. Klis also kept pointing to Champ Kelly as a possibility (a choice I would really like and support) but all has been quiet on that front since then. Now, I certainly have no problem with a minority hire - it’s a fact minorities are underrepresented in the NFL FO ranks - but I sure hope Ellis is making that a requirement as I feel that would tie Patton’s hands if he feels the best candidate and the one with whom he could have the best working relationship looks like me. I just worry and when I hear “ Joe Ellis wants...” I think through the past decade-plus of when Joe Ellis wanted something it usually ended in disaster. He needs to shut up and worry about keeping the corporate sponsors happy and let the football guys make the football decisions. Edited January 22, 2021 by AnAngryAmerican 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said: I just worry and when I hear “ Joe Ellis wants...” I think through the past the last decade-plus of when Joe Ellis wanted something it usually ended in disaster. He needs to shut up and worry about keeping the corporate sponsors happy and let the football guys make the football decisions. Well - fortunately we won't have to put up with him for much longer. Edited January 22, 2021 by jolly red giant 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 On 1/20/2021 at 4:12 AM, broncos67 said: Well, I think some of this depends on the makeup of a team at a given time. Example- if you have a veteran team looking to get over the hump, you are probably not going to prioritize player development the same way you might with a young roster and a host of draft picks. That said, for our team I will say the following: 1. Player Development- right now for Denver, this is a no-brainer for me. A lot of youth across the board- need to see these players make the jump year over year, and become long-term contributors for the Broncos. 2. Team Preparedness- I will give Fangio credit here. The Broncos usually fight hard in games and play tough, which is a departure from the past where there was definitely some going through the motions. I think having a coach that can manage personalities and still manage to motivate professional athletes is critical. 3a. Time Management- this is increasingly critical and can absolutely serve as a competitive edge on gamedays. We have been an abysmal team when it comes to clock management for many years. This isn't exclusively a Fangio thing. Joseph was bad. Kubiak was okay. There's a lot to be desired here, and teams that have good time managers (either as HC, or alongside the HC) give themselves a competitive edge, IMO. 3b.Outside the box thinking- this probably is a bit of a catch all, but I want a coach who will embrace analytics on things like 4th down conversions, player selection, playcalling, etc... The same conservative, vanilla approach is what lands you at 6-10 each year. I think you need elements of 1 and 2 above to be able to really embrace a different way of doing things/more risk, but it's necessary in today's NFL. On 1/20/2021 at 11:58 AM, BroncoBruin said: Fangio largely has been what he was sold as: genius defensive coach, great attention to detail leading to strong game day preparation, disciplined play, solid player development program, consistent effort from players The next step is 99% on the offense/QB to make the jump so the things Fangio does bring to the table can lead to wins So, I agree with both of ya. Also, I'm firmly behind your priorities @broncos67. I've kind of got a theory right now about the Paton/Fangio pairing. Listening to Paton he's definitely a draft and develop kind of guy. Fangio, in spite of his on field deficiencies is one of the best we've ever had at developing players, getting amazing production from back ups and having the team ready to play every Sunday. I think Paton's already got the HC he wants. As a GM making all personnel decisions, draft picks, FA, having a guy like Fangio and his staff is a gold mine. Paton knows Fangio will get more out of his personnel decisions than 90% of the coaches in the league. Personally I think it's a very exciting pairing. Sure, finding a HC that's better at game management is not hard at all to do. Finding one that's better at your top two priorities is almost impossible. Rather than trying to replace Fangio I'd think it would be far easier to hire a game manager. A guy who's sole responsibility would be game/clock management. I don't think Fangio will ever be good at that. Shanahan was one of the best but when it came to the top two priorities he wasn't much. Anyway, just a thought. I appreciate your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 8 hours ago, AKRNA said: Personally I think it's a very exciting pairing. Sure, finding a HC that's better at game management is not hard at all to do. Finding one that's better at your top two priorities is almost impossible. I think we try hiring a college intern to manage game clocks before flat out moving on from Fangio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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