deeluxx3 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 37 minutes ago, Daniel said: Rose colored glasses: So, 2020 had no offseason, more or less, which made it impossible for Shane Bowen to really implement his defense. With Vrabel in charge, we didn't actually see Bowen's defense play all that much, we just saw Vrabel's, and we knew it was terrible. Could it be all/most of the moments where the defense looked pretty good were plans orchestrated by Bowen, whereas the crappy default setting was Vrabel? Imagine that to be the case, and then it would suddenly look like a much better hire. Ftr, I know this is almost certainly not true, but I choose to believe it anyway. No harm in being optimistic but I think it’s just really telling that we saw zero consistent growth or improvement on D throughout the entire season. Struggling early in the year happens. But we never even flirted with just consistent, competent play. So Bowen is getting rewarded for ... sustaining bad play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans0021 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said: No harm in being optimistic but I think it’s just really telling that we saw zero consistent growth or improvement on D throughout the entire season. Struggling early in the year happens. But we never even flirted with just consistent, competent play. So Bowen is getting rewarded for ... sustaining bad play Even if you ignore the struggles of the entire defense, It’s particularly sad that the top three OLBs on the roster coming into the year all had the worst seasons of their careers and we responded by giving the OLB coach a promotion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 26 minutes ago, titans0021 said: Even if you ignore the struggles of the entire defense, It’s particularly sad that the top three OLBs on the roster coming into the year all had the worst seasons of their careers and we responded by giving the OLB coach a promotion. Honestly I thought Landry had a nice year. We ask A LOT from him. He’s clearly no more than a role player, though, and perhaps part of that is on coaching. he’s another Derrick Morgan. And with all due respect to Morgan, I was always bothered by our lack of willingness to try to upgrade at his role. Just such an inconsequential player in so many ways...although both Landry and Morgan do/did the small things well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans0021 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 https://www.tennesseetitans.com/news/weekend-mailbag-jim-wyatt-answers-questions-from-titans-fans-x2467Plus, Vrabel wants someone to run his defense. Bringing someone in from the outside wouldn't have allowed him to do that the way he wants to. Kind of hilarious that in his attempt to defend the decision (which he’s required to do as a team employee), Wyatt hits on the biggest concern we all have with the hire. That we don’t even know how incompetent Bowen is and that the incompetence actually comes from the HC, who runs a garbage system and didn’t want to bring someone else in to mess with his garbage system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoToneBlue Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, titans0021 said: https://www.tennesseetitans.com/news/weekend-mailbag-jim-wyatt-answers-questions-from-titans-fans-x2467Plus, Vrabel wants someone to run his defense. Bringing someone in from the outside wouldn't have allowed him to do that the way he wants to. Kind of hilarious that in his attempt to defend the decision (which he’s required to do as a team employee), Wyatt hits on the biggest concern we all have with the hire. That we don’t even know how incompetent Bowen is and that the incompetence actually comes from the HC, who runs a garbage system and didn’t want to bring someone else in to mess with his garbage system. A big question is, two years ago, were we running Pees defense or Vrabel’s? I think it’s bad moving forward if the answer is Pees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans0021 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, TwoToneBlue said: A big question is, two years ago, were we running Pees defense or Vrabel’s? I think it’s bad moving forward if the answer is Pees. I do wonder if part of the reason Pees retired last year is because Vrabel was pushing for more control of the defense. That as a young HC, he may have been willing to hand things over to Pees, but as he gained more confidence, he decided it was time for him to take a more active role and Pees wasn’t on board with it. i used to completely reject the idea that Vrabel played a role in pushing Pees out, but after having one of the worst defenses in football and promoting an obvious yes man, it’s become a lot more plausible to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MdTitansFan56 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, titans0021 said: I do wonder if part of the reason Pees retired last year is because Vrabel was pushing for more control of the defense. That as a young HC, he may have been willing to hand things over to Pees, but as he gained more confidence, he decided it was time for him to take a more active role and Pees wasn’t on board with it. i used to completely reject the idea that Vrabel played a role in pushing Pees out, but after having one of the worst defenses in football and promoting an obvious yes man, it’s become a lot more plausible to me. That and the fact Pees comes out of retirement to work with Art in Atlanta I think you are correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airness McNairness Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 18 hours ago, deeluxx3 said: No harm in being optimistic but I think it’s just really telling that we saw zero consistent growth or improvement on D throughout the entire season. Struggling early in the year happens. But we never even flirted with just consistent, competent play. So Bowen is getting rewarded for ... sustaining bad play I honestly don't see how you can say that... the defense played better toward the end of the year, culminating in their best performance of the year in the playoff game... I'm not mad at the higher... get the guy better players and watch the defense take off... from an X's and O's stand point... I liked the game plan each week outside of the Cleveland game... we had too many 3rd string guys playing quality snaps for us on the defense this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei01 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 23 hours ago, Chocolateman78 said: Aaron Roger's ain't Alex Smith though. I get upgrading over alex Smith. It's hard to upgrade over a 1st ballot HOFer in his prime Love is not meant to upgrade over Rodgers, but eventually replace him. And FWIW, Alex Smith at that time was a damn solid QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 23 minutes ago, Airness McNairness said: I honestly don't see how you can say that... the defense played better toward the end of the year, culminating in their best performance of the year in the playoff game... I'm not mad at the higher... get the guy better players and watch the defense take off... from an X's and O's stand point... I liked the game plan each week outside of the Cleveland game... we had too many 3rd string guys playing quality snaps for us on the defense this year... we gave up more PPG as the year progressed on a monthly basis https://titansized.com/2021/01/22/stop-making-excuses-titans-dc-shane-bowen/4/ we gave up 40 and 38 points in the final two games of the season. how can you say that we were playing better? one game against a QB that struggles passing the ball isn't enough to make up for how bad we were all year long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I do feel our D did improve as the year went on even if the PPG stat disagrees and the fact does remain it was not the D's fault we lost in the playoffs. I am concerned though about the development of our LB's and what this means going forward. Still I think a lot of the complaints about our D can go back to mistakes and or injuries with personal. I know I thought not having a healthy Adoree all year made a huge impact in the play of our back 7 as well as the mistake with Beasley and the injury loss of Cloney had a huge impact on our front 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airness McNairness Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 13 hours ago, quiller said: I do feel our D did improve as the year went on even if the PPG stat disagrees and the fact does remain it was not the D's fault we lost in the playoffs. I am concerned though about the development of our LB's and what this means going forward. Still I think a lot of the complaints about our D can go back to mistakes and or injuries with personal. I know I thought not having a healthy Adoree all year made a huge impact in the play of our back 7 as well as the mistake with Beasley and the injury loss of Cloney had a huge impact on our front 4. exactly! the more i think of the whole continuity thing, i think that may benefit us.. look, we went from dean peas to bowen.. same defense, but two different people. i think there was natural regression in that.. by not bringing in someone new, i think we will avoid that this year.. same thing with the ILB's with having a new coach and with us having a new secondary coach as well.. nobody talks about that tho.. the 2nd year in the system with these coaches could show for a big turnaround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSlim Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 While I’m not a fan of staying in house and promoting Bowen, I’m not going to spend all offseason complaining and being down in the dumps about our defense. As mentioned above we lost some key defensive coaches and defensive leaders. I probably underestimated how big an adjustment it’d be for the entire defense losing those guys.You add that to the fact our biggest free agent additions were absolute bust, we dealt with critical injuries to key players throughout the year and we really didn’t get any impact from our rookies, and it was recipe of disaster for our defense. If we hit on our free agent signings and draft picks, while our returning players get comfortable playing in the system (and maybe guys like Byard, Evans, Jackson returning to their 2019 form) and Bowen gets comfortable focusing on being strictly our DC, it’ll hopefully be enough to get our defense to a respectable level. The defense doesn’t need to be elite or anything. Just not historically bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan89 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) I don't see how anyone can justify this promotion I am sorry. Agree to disagree with some of you. If you take Vrabel at his word, Bowen played a big part in the defense and called the plays. The result was complete disarray and historically bad on third downs. If we can't trust what Vrabel says and it was Vrabel running it then we have a bigger problem with a lying not accountable head coach. The players were openly complaining about the scheme and how it wasn't working. Those same players who are silent right now after this promotion. Tells me all I need to know. Yet to see a single defensive player endorse this. Says a lot to me. To me, promoting him is rewarding crap performance. It's saying its okay to be bad at your job because Vrabel has your back. It sends the complete wrong message to the fan base that mediocrity is acceptable. I love this team have for many years but this cannot be justified. Unless there is drastic improvement Vrabel needs to be on the hot seat for this one. Yes the pass rush was pathetic and Vrabel's boy JD was a dud. The personnel was not the best. However, there is enough talent that it should not have fallen off the rails with a halfway decent scheme. How come Dean Pees could make this defense with largely the same roster, respectable? Oh I know its because he is an actual reputable coordinator. Bowen is just a Vrabel lackey. That's right. I want to make it clear I would love to be completely wrong and will own it if I am. However, you could have a rainbow unicorn and a pot of gold dropping gold coins on all of us. No amount of fluff and positivity will give you a logical reason for this promotion to have happened. Vrabel is lucky the media in Nashville is not like some other places. If he did this in a more media crazy market he would have been eaten alive. I just see this as Vrabel being pig headed, thinking he knows everything and protecting his buddies. Edited February 2, 2021 by Titan89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I am still really, really pissed off about this I got over the BAL loss much, much faster than this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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