When can we start putting Mahomes on the list of all-time great QBs?

[Tk3]

On 2/3/2021 at 12:56 PM, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

is Gayle Sayers the best RB of all time

TIL Gale Sayers had fewer than 5,000 career rushing yards

Frank Gore has nearly as many career carries as Sayers has yards lol

[ET80]

3 hours ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

but if you wana be the GOAT with a shorter career arc , you have to do **** no one has ever done

Such as 5,000/50 season as a first time starter, NFL MVP as a first time starter, SB Winner/MVP as a 2nd year starter, three Divisional Championships in three years as a starter, two SBs in his first three years as a starter...?

Asking for a friend.

@Kirill! I'm not asking for you, but you can jump in!

[Trojan]

20 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Such as 5,000/50 season as a first time starter, NFL MVP as a first time starter, SB Winner/MVP as a 2nd year starter, three Divisional Championships in three years as a starter, two SBs in his first three years as a starter...?

Asking for a friend.

@Kirill! I'm not asking for you, but you can jump in!

Didn't Marino basically do that too minus the SB winner part?

[ET80]

1 minute ago, Trojan said:

Didn't Marino basically do that too minus the SB winner part?

And isn't Marino considered an All Time great?

[Trojan]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

And isn't Marino considered an All Time great?

That's what I mean Marino's prime is basically what Mahomes has matched. If Mahomes just sticks around at this point he's Marino in a different era +SB success. Is 90s Marino greater than the post season success of Mahomes? If not then Mahomes ranks roughly at Marino. Probably 5 to 15 range for both of them, but a "Mt. Rushmore" is top 4 and I don't think either makes it. Marino would have been at one point, but Manning and Brady have essentially finished their careers (or at least passed Marino) and Favre took the counting stats with a SB... then Brees did the counting stats with a SB. I'm not sure I'd put Brees or Favre over Marino but they get in the argument at least. Top four likely is Brady, Montana, Manning and (Elway/Favre/Marino/Brees/Unitas flex arguments). I think Mahomes ends up being solidly in the top 4 and killing the flex type stuff and I think it will take him about 10 years in the league to do so.

How I took that post is for Mahomes to be top 4 all time in like 4 or 5 years or whatever he needs to do something very unique. What he has done is very Marino like with the addition of the top prize.

[SkippyX]

I've said before that Brady and Mahomes have different career arcs.

Brady was more of a clutch winner type early before he later became the stats guy as well (and redefined winning)

Brees and Rodgers are also not good fits because SD Brees was meh and Rodgers did not play for 3 years.

Manning has his own complications. He had to learn QB and OC-on the field at the same time in that offense.

He also had to play from game 1 while everyone else was phased in.

I think of Mahomes like the next upgrade version of Marino/Warner

 

 

Through 46 regular season starts

• Mahomes 38-8 record 1114-1687 66.0% 14152 yards 8.4 ypa 114 TDs 24 picks 108.7 rating 4.75 to 1 TD/INT
• Marino 34-12 record 958-1572 60.94% 12651 yards 7.9 ypa 107 TDs to 53 picks 95.0 rating 2.02 to 1 TD/INT
• Warner 35-11 record  1023-1517 67.44%  13494 yards 8.9 ypa  99 TDs 60 picks 100.6 rating 1.65 to 1 TD/INT
• Manning 24-22 record 968-1615 59.94% 11798 yards 6.71 ypa 80 TDs 57 picks 84.3 rating 1.40 to 1 TD/INT
• Brady  34-12 record 949-1531  61.99% 10181 yards 6.43 ypa 69 TDs 38 picks 86.1 rating 1.82 to 1 TD/INT
• Rodgers*   26-20 record 984-1524 64.57% 12165 yards 7.98 ypa 85 TDs 30 picks  99.5 rating 2.83 to 1 TD/INT
• Watson 26-20 record 997-1482 67.27% 12153 yards 8.39 ypa 88 TDs 33 picks 102.8 rating 2.67 to 1 TD/INT

 

You can scrub this on another layer by adding in things like passer rating adjustments over the years (Marino's 95 in the 80's might be close to 108 today)

Any way you cut it, Mahomes is incredible already.

[ET80]

2 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

I think of Mahomes like the next upgrade version of Marino/Warner

Kurt Warner without the turnovers is a really good comp.

[SkippyX]

The crazy thing is just how far ahead of Rodgers in TD to INT that Mahomes is at this point.

Rodgers put up that insane 2011 year next and became the TD/INT king but QBs get better at that over time.

[SkippyX]

9 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Kurt Warner without the turnovers is a really good comp.

Warner is also one of the few that you can say clearly had better weapons than Mahomes.

• 2 HoF level WRs in Holt and Bruce
• HoF RB Faulk who is top 3 in run/catch mix for RBs
• HoF Orlando Pace was so good he was associated with the phrase "pancake block"
• Az Hakim added that extra team speed
• Ricky Proehl was a 30-32 year old career #2 WR playing the #4 role.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

HoF RB Faulk who is top 3 in run/catch mix for RBs

Let's not mince words here - he's #1.

[Chiefer]

21 hours ago, ET80 said:

Kurt Warner without the turnovers is a really good comp.

He’s not as accurate, no knock on Mahomes, Warner was just out of this world there 

[ET80]

35 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

He’s not as accurate, no knock on Mahomes, Warner was just out of this world there 

I think some of that might have to be Warner working with two HoF WRs and a HoF RB who specialized in catching passes from everywhere.

There might be truth to your comparison, but give Mahomes an upgrade at RB who can contribute like Marshall Faulk did, then we can see about who stands where.

[NeptunePenguins]

Mahomes will not be an all-time great because he WILL lose tomorrow. There is NO chance that the Chiefs win against the Bucs tomorrow, and he will prove that he is a fraud for sure. They will fail to put up 20 points, and Mahomes will be exposed as the most overrated player in the NFL. Mark my words. 

 

[NeptunePenguins]

On 2/4/2021 at 2:48 PM, Trojan said:

That's what I mean Marino's prime is basically what Mahomes has matched. If Mahomes just sticks around at this point he's Marino in a different era +SB success. Is 90s Marino greater than the post season success of Mahomes? If not then Mahomes ranks roughly at Marino. Probably 5 to 15 range for both of them, but a "Mt. Rushmore" is top 4 and I don't think either makes it. Marino would have been at one point, but Manning and Brady have essentially finished their careers (or at least passed Marino) and Favre took the counting stats with a SB... then Brees did the counting stats with a SB. I'm not sure I'd put Brees or Favre over Marino but they get in the argument at least. Top four likely is Brady, Montana, Manning and (Elway/Favre/Marino/Brees/Unitas flex arguments). I think Mahomes ends up being solidly in the top 4 and killing the flex type stuff and I think it will take him about 10 years in the league to do so.

How I took that post is for Mahomes to be top 4 all time in like 4 or 5 years or whatever he needs to do something very unique. What he has done is very Marino like with the addition of the top prize.

Yeah but Marino has done something no one has ever done before, meanwhile Mahomes is just scapegoating off the success and rules of the modern NFL, so he actually isn't a good QB.

 

Marino is Muhammad Ali and Mahomes is Anthony Joshua basically. 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

On 2/4/2021 at 3:48 PM, Trojan said:

That's what I mean Marino's prime is basically what Mahomes has matched. If Mahomes just sticks around at this point he's Marino in a different era +SB success. Is 90s Marino greater than the post season success of Mahomes? If not then Mahomes ranks roughly at Marino. Probably 5 to 15 range for both of them, but a "Mt. Rushmore" is top 4 and I don't think either makes it. Marino would have been at one point, but Manning and Brady have essentially finished their careers (or at least passed Marino) and Favre took the counting stats with a SB... then Brees did the counting stats with a SB. I'm not sure I'd put Brees or Favre over Marino but they get in the argument at least. Top four likely is Brady, Montana, Manning and (Elway/Favre/Marino/Brees/Unitas flex arguments). I think Mahomes ends up being solidly in the top 4 and killing the flex type stuff and I think it will take him about 10 years in the league to do so.

How I took that post is for Mahomes to be top 4 all time in like 4 or 5 years or whatever he needs to do something very unique. What he has done is very Marino like with the addition of the top prize.

beautifully written and couldnt agree more

completely encapsulated  the point i was trying to get across

Mahomes to early Marino is a PERFECT comparison

if Mahomes continues to do what hes doing for 4-5 years , no doubt , many will consider him up there with the greats

and if he wins 1 or 2 more SBs then he could crack the Mt Rushmore of QBs 

but he SHOULD NOT be considered that yet

but hes on his way