2021 DRAFT PROSPECTS

[MrLionzz]

I believe Parsons is getting over hyped due to overall athleticism and not based on production. Potential to me means nothing other than the ability to do something. If Chase is there or Pitts or Waddle then I would go that route, I don't want a LB with potential character issues, limited production, and very questionable coverage abilities. I see him as a Jared Davis clone athletically and instinctively. Zaven Collins is by far to me a much better prospect and fit. People assume he is great in coverage due to his athleticism but in reality he guesses to often and uses his athleticism to make up for it by catching the receiver for minimal gain. In the NFL he won't have that great of a disparity in athleticism with the backs, TE's, and WR's and it will begin to show up and teams will attack his weakness causing LB problems with the Lions, same story different LB. 

[Karnage84]

17 minutes ago, MrLionzz said:

I believe Parsons is getting over hyped due to overall athleticism and not based on production. Potential to me means nothing other than the ability to do something. If Chase is there or Pitts or Waddle then I would go that route, I don't want a LB with potential character issues, limited production, and very questionable coverage abilities. I see him as a Jared Davis clone athletically and instinctively. Zaven Collins is by far to me a much better prospect and fit. People assume he is great in coverage due to his athleticism but in reality he guesses to often and uses his athleticism to make up for it by catching the receiver for minimal gain. In the NFL he won't have that great of a disparity in athleticism with the backs, TE's, and WR's and it will begin to show up and teams will attack his weakness causing LB problems with the Lions, same story different LB. 

When I first heard about Parsons and his character concerns, I was of the belief that there were sexual assault accusations (big red flag). However, it appears this is not as cut and dry. 

- HS > Transferred schools because he was accused of attempting to incite a riot due to something having to do with racism

- HS > Something about naked/near naked wrestling and simulated sex acts against teammates

- PSU

2018 - Accused of bullying and harassment (including sexual harassment) due to hazing incident involving Isaiah Humphries. Humphries sued Penn State and listed Parsons as one of the key people involved. 

• Quote

   

  • Took their clothes and did not return them.
  • Told them they intended to make them “their ***** because this is a prison.”
  • Wrestled them down and simulating a humping action while on top of them.
  • Placed their penis in their faces while simulating ejaculation.
  • Placed their penis on and in their buttocks.

   

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/10/former-psu-football-player-details-claims-he-was-hazed-by-teammates.html

2020 - Opted out due to COVID-19. Claims it was because Big Ten cancelled season, which was a decision that was reversed

 

None of this is good and far from something to be proud of. It also sounds a lot like young and dumb athlete in the locker room stuff. At the very least, it's extremely immature. Some of it could be borderline criminal.

I don't know if a young man that made a lot of stupid decisions should be penalized forever for those. You'd have to do a really deep dive into who Micah Parsons the man is now. Is this something that someone has/can grow out of or would a high draft position, prestige as a high 1st round pick and a boatload of money take that kind of mentality and make it worse?

[diehardlionfan]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

When I first heard about Parsons and his character concerns, I was of the belief that there were sexual assault accusations (big red flag). However, it appears this is not as cut and dry. 

- HS > Transferred schools because he was accused of attempting to incite a riot due to something having to do with racism

- HS > Something about naked/near naked wrestling and simulated sex acts against teammates

- PSU

2018 - Accused of bullying and harassment (including sexual harassment) due to hazing incident involving Isaiah Humphries. Humphries sued Penn State and listed Parsons as one of the key people involved. 

•  

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/10/former-psu-football-player-details-claims-he-was-hazed-by-teammates.html

2020 - Opted out due to COVID-19. Claims it was because Big Ten cancelled season, which was a decision that was reversed

 

None of this is good and far from something to be proud of. It also sounds a lot like young and dumb athlete in the locker room stuff. At the very least, it's extremely immature. Some of it could be borderline criminal.

I don't know if a young man that made a lot of stupid decisions should be penalized forever for those. You'd have to do a really deep dive into who Micah Parsons the man is now. Is this something that someone has/can grow out of or would a high draft position, prestige as a high 1st round pick and a boatload of money take that kind of mentality and make it worse?

Yikes, none of that is good.

[BigC421/]

2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

This isn't exactly an overreaction.... the numbers that guys post coming out of HS doesn't mean a ton BUT... 

ESPN Recruiting

Parsons - 4.66 40; 4.34 SS; 31.1 Vert

He had the third fastest out of the group (Dylan Moses and Baron Browning were tied at 4.56)

Decent SS and below average vert. 

 

I have my worksheets comparing prospects athletic performance (combine and pro days) since 2011. I have not gotten to work on the LB's for 2021 yet. 4.39 at that size is really impressive but I'm not sure he's as explosive as he is just fast. 

This is my process, take it for what it's worth, but I use this information (combine performance, pro days and college production) to get an idea of a prospect. I'll watch tape and then determine "am I seeing the same thing on tape or do the numbers not match up". If a guy runs a 4.56 but because they have really good mental processing and good feet, maybe they make up for that and play a lot faster. Sometimes a guy is just a freak athlete and can do things you can't teach and that level of athleticism makes sense to take a flier on. 

 

NFL network should have sent crews to as many pro days as possible.  Get there usual side shot of every 40 and do the simulcast thing with guys running side by side.  Would be very interesting 

[Louis Friend]

4 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

When I first heard about Parsons and his character concerns, I was of the belief that there were sexual assault accusations (big red flag). However, it appears this is not as cut and dry. 

- HS > Transferred schools because he was accused of attempting to incite a riot due to something having to do with racism

- HS > Something about naked/near naked wrestling and simulated sex acts against teammates

- PSU

2018 - Accused of bullying and harassment (including sexual harassment) due to hazing incident involving Isaiah Humphries. Humphries sued Penn State and listed Parsons as one of the key people involved. 

•  

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/10/former-psu-football-player-details-claims-he-was-hazed-by-teammates.html

2020 - Opted out due to COVID-19. Claims it was because Big Ten cancelled season, which was a decision that was reversed

 

None of this is good and far from something to be proud of. It also sounds a lot like young and dumb athlete in the locker room stuff. At the very least, it's extremely immature. Some of it could be borderline criminal.

I don't know if a young man that made a lot of stupid decisions should be penalized forever for those. You'd have to do a really deep dive into who Micah Parsons the man is now. Is this something that someone has/can grow out of or would a high draft position, prestige as a high 1st round pick and a boatload of money take that kind of mentality and make it worse?

I was trying to find insight to the character concerns, so thank you. 

It was stated after his pro day that the Lions have talked to him, more than once, including Dan Campbell.

When asked about the character concerns, Parsons stated that he did stupid things when he was 17/18 years old, but that he's grown up since then, including becoming a father. 

My issue is, even at 17/18 years old, you are old enough to know better. This wasn't tasteless pranks on classmates in grade school, this was him sexually assaulting teammates, as an a teenager/adult. And not just one place, but in high school and college.

Do I think people cannot grow and change? Of course not. But sexual assault, and that is what these acts were, is not a childish behavior one grows out of. I believe he will be drafted, in the first 20 picks, but I'm not sure it'll be by the Lions who have discussed improving the culture and being more focused on character under this new front office.

[Karnage84]

10 hours ago, Louis Friend said:

I was trying to find insight to the character concerns, so thank you. 

It was stated after his pro day that the Lions have talked to him, more than once, including Dan Campbell.

When asked about the character concerns, Parsons stated that he did stupid things when he was 17/18 years old, but that he's grown up since then, including becoming a father. 

My issue is, even at 17/18 years old, you are old enough to know better. This wasn't tasteless pranks on classmates in grade school, this was him sexually assaulting teammates, as an a teenager/adult. And not just one place, but in high school and college.

Do I think people cannot grow and change? Of course not. But sexual assault, and that is what these acts were, is not a childish behavior one grows out of. I believe he will be drafted, in the first 20 picks, but I'm not sure it'll be by the Lions who have discussed improving the culture and being more focused on character under this new front office.

Yeah - I'm trying to work through in my head what is "dumb teenagers with big ego's" vs criminal harassment and sexual harassment. There are enough stories in the league of talented guys that have done stupid/criminal things and thrown away an otherwise promising career. I do think he needs to be humbled a bit and learn from those mistakes. I don't know if being taken at #7 overall is going to do that. 

If the Lions do take him, it is because they have spent so much time with him and feel comfortable with him. If they don't, then it's because they've spent so much time with him and they aren't comfortable with him. He is a clear and obvious target for this team. If the Lions don't pick him, I believe that he is going to drop into the teens or even the twenties.

A significant factor for us vs some other teams is that we are attempting to rebuild the culture and the locker room. Our first selection is going to be an integral part in accomplishing that. Parsons could go to a team with a more established culture who can take the bigger risk because it won't blow things up. 

 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

With the draft pick trades as of late, I'm hoping that we're in a position to select a better prospect and avoid the Parsons situation completely.

[diehardlionfan]

6 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

With the draft pick trades as of late, I'm hoping that we're in a position to select a better prospect and avoid the Parsons situation completely.

Agreed. It’s looking more likely since the trades.

[NFL_Fan]

On 3/26/2021 at 5:56 PM, Karnage84 said:

When I first heard about Parsons and his character concerns, I was of the belief that there were sexual assault accusations (big red flag). However, it appears this is not as cut and dry. 

- HS > Transferred schools because he was accused of attempting to incite a riot due to something having to do with racism

- HS > Something about naked/near naked wrestling and simulated sex acts against teammates

- PSU

2018 - Accused of bullying and harassment (including sexual harassment) due to hazing incident involving Isaiah Humphries. Humphries sued Penn State and listed Parsons as one of the key people involved. 

•  

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/10/former-psu-football-player-details-claims-he-was-hazed-by-teammates.html

2020 - Opted out due to COVID-19. Claims it was because Big Ten cancelled season, which was a decision that was reversed

 

None of this is good and far from something to be proud of. It also sounds a lot like young and dumb athlete in the locker room stuff. At the very least, it's extremely immature. Some of it could be borderline criminal.

I don't know if a young man that made a lot of stupid decisions should be penalized forever for those. You'd have to do a really deep dive into who Micah Parsons the man is now. Is this something that someone has/can grow out of or would a high draft position, prestige as a high 1st round pick and a boatload of money take that kind of mentality and make it worse?

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Edited March 28, 2021 by NFL_Fan

[NFL_Fan]

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Edited March 28, 2021 by NFL_Fan
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[NFL_Fan]

do you guys likeOsa Odighizuwa?

[CWood21]

On 3/26/2021 at 4:16 PM, MrLionzz said:

I believe Parsons is getting over hyped due to overall athleticism and not based on production. Potential to me means nothing other than the ability to do something. If Chase is there or Pitts or Waddle then I would go that route, I don't want a LB with potential character issues, limited production, and very questionable coverage abilities. I see him as a Jared Davis clone athletically and instinctively. Zaven Collins is by far to me a much better prospect and fit. People assume he is great in coverage due to his athleticism but in reality he guesses to often and uses his athleticism to make up for it by catching the receiver for minimal gain. In the NFL he won't have that great of a disparity in athleticism with the backs, TE's, and WR's and it will begin to show up and teams will attack his weakness causing LB problems with the Lions, same story different LB. 

Not sure how you can claim that Parsons didn't produce when the previous 2 seasons combined he had nearly 200 tackles...

[NFL_Fan]

47 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Not sure how you can claim that Parsons didn't produce when the previous 2 seasons combined he had nearly 200 tackles...

grading based off tackles might be the worst thing to judge a defender...cmon now

[SimbaWho]

9 minutes ago, NFL_Fan said:

grading based off tackles might be the worst thing to judge a defender...cmon now

Yeah, but his point is still very valid. Parsons isn't a guy that hasn't produced... he just didn't play this season. Which, sure is a knock, but Jadevon Clowney didn't play the season his was drafted either( bit of a difference cause of positional impact. )

I think I agree though that I'm not sure I see this vast gap between Collins/Bolton/Parsons to go grab Parsons at 7. 

Trade downs are a different conversation but I've about had it with TE's/LB's in the top 10. You're pretty much bucking a trend and going against history when you pick guys this high. ( They aren't worth it. )

[CWood21]

14 minutes ago, NFL_Fan said:

grading based off tackles might be the worst thing to judge a defender...cmon now

And making the incredibly illogical jump to the conclusion that he hasn't produced because he didn't play this year is?  He was viewed as a likely top 10 pick prior to his decision to sit out the 2020/21 season because of COVID-19.  If he played this year, do you think he would have produced or not?