ThatJaxxenGuy Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) I’m surprised I haven’t seen a discussion about this topic on here so thought I’d get it started. We are seeing this with Watson and obviously the Texans were blown up with self inflicted wounds by BOB, but I think there is more nuance to the situation than “Texans r bad” because Watson being in the first year of his mega deal forces a change to team building and while I completely disagree with the bad return they got, a WR like Hopkins is a luxury a team paying a top QB contract probably can’t afford. So Watson wants out after one year of his new contract and the Texans look like a replacement team without him. now rumours are swirling that Russel Wilson is having a rocky marriage because he wants a major say in who the GM is hiring to be his Offensive coach. It seems like he saw that Brady gets a lot of say in Tampa and thinks he can put together that kind of project, and when not given that decision making power he is throwing a fit behind closed doors and going to the media with his dissatisfaction. Brady famously wanted more weapons on the Pats and became disgruntled when they cut Brown. I’m willing to give Brady a pass because he’s winning Super Bowls at the rate he is, but I think other QBs see how he pulled in guys in Tampa and think they deserve the same say. and now Wentz wants out after he is benched for playing poorly this season, and rumour has it he is trying to veto a trade to the Bears. So guy wants to have his cake and eat it too. so I guess my main question to the FF is do you agree with these QBs who think they should have a degree of control over team direction? If yes or no, why? What about QBs who sign a mega deal and want out after a year or two of losing? I feel like they get used to the star studded team when they’re on their rookie deal and don’t understand the reality of the situation when one guy is eating 30 percent of cap space... thoughts? Edited February 17, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said: so I guess my main question to the FF is do you agree with these QBs who think they should have a degree of control over team direction? If yes or no, why? I don't know enough about the other QB situations, but I am a SME on the Texans/Watson situation... ...and all I can say is that it was a completely avoidable situation, but ownership chose to side with a character coach/team chaplin over the 2nd highest paid player in football history. Promises were made to Watson, and then firmly pulled away as the team chose to listen to Jack Easterby and bring in a staff that would firmly entrench him into the organization. The lack of draft picks, the damage done by BoB, the precarious cap situation - it didn't really matter to Watson. Keeping Easterby in the building? Giving him more power than what he had? That's unacceptable. Given what other players, FO personnel and coaches have said about Easterby, I'm inclined to side with Watson. Can't say the same about other situations, but I can say for certain that this is the situation in Houston. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, ET80 said: I don't know enough about the other QB situations, but I am a SME on the Texans/Watson situation... ...and all I can say is that it was a completely avoidable situation, but ownership chose to side with a character coach/team chaplin over the 2nd highest paid player in football history. Promises were made to Watson, and then firmly pulled away as the team chose to listen to Jack Easterby and bring in a staff that would firmly entrench him into the organization. The lack of draft picks, the damage done by BoB, the precarious cap situation - it didn't really matter to Watson. Keeping Easterby in the building? Giving him more power than what he had? That's unacceptable. Given what other players, FO personnel and coaches have said about Easterby, I'm inclined to side with Watson. Can't say the same about other situations, but I can say for certain that this is the situation in Houston. Thanks for the reply, I do feel like Watson’s is less self inflicted than maybe the other examples but wanted to include him because no matter who I agree or disagree with in the Texans debacle the team is still in a state of disarray and the relationship with QB1 is a major factor in the question marks going forward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I think it's more that the top NFL players have seen what the top NBA guys are pulling, and want to try to gain the same "power" so to speak. LeBron has been doing it for years, now others are too (Anthony Davis basically forced his way to join the lakers and LeBron, and the league made it happen). I can ask for a doubled salary to my boss. Doesn't mean I'm getting it. It is much easier for players to manipulate a 12 man roster with 5 starters than it is for a QB on a 53 an roster and 25 or so "starters". And NFL owners don't seem to want to cave to it. But it only takes one. Brady did it with Tampa. But that was much easier because Tampa wanted HIM and caved to whatever he wanted. Entrenched players with years remaining on deals have far less leverage. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFM18 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, INbengalfan said: I think it's more that the top NFL players have seen what the top NBA guys are pulling, and want to try to gain the same "power" so to speak. LeBron has been doing it for years, now others are too (Anthony Davis basically forced his way to join the lakers and LeBron, and the league made it happen). I can ask for a doubled salary to my boss. Doesn't mean I'm getting it. It is much easier for players to manipulate a 12 man roster with 5 starters than it is for a QB on a 53 an roster and 25 or so "starters". And NFL owners don't seem to want to cave to it. But it only takes one. Brady did it with Tampa. But that was much easier because Tampa wanted HIM and caved to whatever he wanted. Entrenched players with years remaining on deals have far less leverage. And that's the key. Brady went to Tampa, got what he wanted which led to another Superbowl. Other QB's are looking at what Brady did and saying "I want input into how the team does things to achieve the same success" or they'll make noises about moving to another team to either force the current team to acquiesce to their demands or actually move on. Franchise QB's, especially top tier talent, are realising how much they are worth in terms of achieving success, and thus will start to make more noise in order to achieve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, PFM18 said: And that's the key. Brady went to Tampa, got what he wanted which led to another Superbowl. Other QB's are looking at what Brady did and saying "I want input into how the team does things to achieve the same success" or they'll make noises about moving to another team to either force the current team to acquiesce to their demands or actually move on. Franchise QB's, especially top tier talent, are realising how much they are worth in terms of achieving success, and thus will start to make more noise in order to achieve it. Those QBs should consider that Brady takes a pay cut imo.. I’m sure that helps when you want a say on team building. Edited February 17, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said: Those QBs should consider that Brady takes a pay cut imo.. I’m sure that helps when you want a say on team building. I feel as if - sometime in the near future - we'll see a guy who will take less money on their 2nd deal. I thought we'd see that with Mahomes/Watson (some might argue we did see that with Mahomes, actually) but you'll eventually see a top guy take less than market value to keep a team around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalvadorsDeli Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 28 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said: Those QBs should consider that Brady takes a pay cut imo.. I’m sure that helps when you want a say on team building. Brady has always had the flexibility to take less money because he isn't even necessarily the main breadwinner in his family. Not true for most other QB's. I think the question around QB's taking less money just comes down to how much less money we're talking. If it's a question of taking $1-2 million less per year to give teams that little bit extra of flexibility to make an extra move or two, then that probably feels doable on all sides. But if you're asking guys to take ~$5-10 million less per year - which is moreso what we're talking about in order to really create room to sign or keep additional premium pieces, then that's a legitimate chunk of change even for someone who is getting paid tens of millions of dollars either way. If you do go down that road of asking your QB to take a paycut though then I don't think there can be much complaining about QB's wanting to take a more active role in personnel decisions, though. At that point it's their money the team is spending, essentially. Like, it's probably a different conversation with Lamar around his extension if the Ravens tell them they'll use whatever money he chooses to leave on the table to go out and get Allen Robinson, compared to asking him to make that sacrifice just so that they can go out and sign a nose tackle to replace Brandon Williams. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said: Brady has always had the flexibility to take less money because he isn't even necessarily the main breadwinner in his family. Not true for most other QB's. I think the question around QB's taking less money just comes down to how much less money we're talking. If it's a question of taking $1-2 million less per year to give teams that little bit extra of flexibility to make an extra move or two, then that probably feels doable on all sides. But if you're asking guys to take ~$5-10 million less per year - which is moreso what we're talking about in order to really create room to sign or keep additional premium pieces, then that's a legitimate chunk of change even for someone who is getting paid tens of millions of dollars either way. If you do go down that road of asking your QB to take a paycut though then I don't think there can be much complaining about QB's wanting to take a more active role in personnel decisions, though. At that point it's their money the team is spending, essentially. Like, it's probably a different conversation with Lamar around his extension if the Ravens tell them they'll use whatever money he chooses to leave on the table to go out and get Allen Robinson, compared to asking him to make that sacrifice just so that they can go out and sign a nose tackle to replace Brandon Williams. I’m not saying QBs should generally take less, I’m saying if they want the decision making power of Brady the fact he takes substantially less should be part of the discussion. I think Brady was making like 22 mil this year, but for a 6 (now 7) time Super Bowl winner still playing well he could justifiably have been a 40 mil cap hit. I agree Tom definitely has a privilege of taking less when he’s not the primary breadwinner, but that’s not really another team’s problem to deal with when it comes to dealing with other QBs who want both top dollar and to control roster moves/ coaching hires. If a QB comes to me and says he wants the power to bring in players and influence hires like Brady but then when asked to take a pay cut like Brady he says “well no fair Brady’s wife is rich”, that’s not a bargaining chip that any front office will care about. The example you’ve given is exactly what I’m talking about. Brady takes less because he wants Gronk and Brown and gets them for money that’s “his” in a way. Another QB wants to be able to have that say to get their players in or hiring but probably won’t put the pay cut on the table. That doesn’t sound like the team causing problems, that’s all on the QB imo Edited February 17, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said: Brady has always had the flexibility to take less money because he isn't even necessarily the main breadwinner in his family. Not true for most other QB's. helps when your wife is a brazilian model/mogul and a billionaire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonebillsfan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, scar988 said: helps when your wife is a brazilian model/mogul and a billionaire. People always leave that part out when it's a giant reason Brady "takes less" and even then by the end of his time in New England taking less had alienated him from the entire organization who just expected him to do that forever lol. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 hours ago, PFM18 said: Other QB's are looking at what Brady did and saying "I want input into how the team does things to achieve the same success" or they'll make noises about moving to another team to either force the current team to acquiesce to their demands or actually move on. Except what most these other QB's don't realize, is that they ain't Brady. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, THE DUKE said: Except what most these other QB's don't realize, is that they ain't Brady. So? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) EDIT: Wrong thread. What demands did Brady make? Aside from maybe bringing in AB. Even that, I’d probably separate a team appeasing a player vs a player making demands. Edited February 20, 2021 by Yin-Yang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 There is nuance to each situation imo. Pete Carroll has lost his edge (knowing college football really well) and is reliant on Russ to keep his job. Watson is in an organization that has gone from mediocre to full implosion. I cant blame him for wanting out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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