2021 Baker thread

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Such a crazy personnel usage. Hunt and Felton could be our most Dangerous weapons but yet he refuses to use them like that. Like he is so set on being traditional with the offense. Like how in the blue hell have we not run any packages with Hunt and Chubb on the field? Yes you like to Keep them fresh but it’s not like he is running either one of them in the ground that you can use both at the same time

And the fact that Johnson has been playing lights out when given the chance only makes this more absurd.

Rotate the 3 of them.

[MWil23]

29 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Such a crazy personnel usage. Hunt and Felton could be our most Dangerous weapons but yet he refuses to use them like that. Like he is so set on being traditional with the offense. Like how in the blue hell have we not run any packages with Hunt and Chubb on the field? Yes you like to Keep them fresh but it’s not like he is running either one of them in the ground that you can use both at the same time

I think that Schwartz up until this past week would have gotten those reps that Felton would be/should be getting. IMO he's your slot answer right now, and Jarvis has to be an outside guy by default with DPJ from now on. Njoku is your other outside guy with Jarvis in the slot if you don't go that route to be honest.

29 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Yes right now bakers injury is holding back certain aspects of the offense but Stef should be able to figure out other schemes to offset it.

Easier said than done. You have to go back to some major philosophical installation and personnel groupings, and they are victims of having a Week 13 BYE. Asking anyone to do that in season is a disaster waiting to happen, and let's be real, injuries to Hunt, the COVID RB issue that lingered, OBJ's drama, and the decimated OT situation all factored into needing to use the TE heavy packages more for pass protection, personnel shortcomings, and to protect Baker who has been really hurt, as well as playing poor football (whether it's due to injuries or not).

[MWil23]

30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Chubb and Hunt should be on the field together much of the time tbh.  We don’t need to rotate just them, Johnson is good enough to mix in there too. Hunt needs to be split out a lot right now as he’s at least able to make a play.

Going forward after the BYE, I have this as an expectation, which is probably a mistake on my part. It's time to put your best players on the field, see if you can see something the rest of the way, and salvage some portions of the season for the woefully inept offense we've had the last 2 months minus an outlier Cincinnati game.

30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And I like the idea of what Felton could do, but man, he’s living off that once screen for way too long.  He hasn’t done much of anything in months. I’m still hopeful he can develop and be a player, but he’s a rookie 6th rounder who’s making a position change.  We really need to temper expectations with him.

I guess I look around and say "who else is there?". Start giving him some receiver reps in the slot and see, otherwise it HAS to be Hunt.

30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

yep. Baker gave these clowns a half dozen chances (conservatively) to make a play and they simply didn’t.

As I’ve said before, if you need to be schemed for get open, and have a pinpoint pass thrown at the perfect millisecond, you’re simply not good enough.

No question about it, but it needs to be within the system and timing as opposed to freelancing (see my issues with OBJ).

30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think part of the issue is teams know our receivers, and at times Baker, isn’t gonna beat them deep.  Nor is our protection on the outside going to hold up.  They’re not gonna give us easy stuff.

We really lack any semblance of a consistent vertical threat unless it's DPJ, who in a perfect world if OBJ pans out, absolutely is killing it as a #3 right now. By default, he's our #1 outside option, and he's just not ready for that yet IMO.

30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I care if it’s Hooper, he’s been absolutely useless.  I’m not saying he’s not an NFL caliber TE or whatever, he is, but he’s an average number 2 tbh.  He’s a good blocker who can find the soft spot in zones.  He can’t get split a seam nor can he beat linebackers 1:1.

And his contract gives us ZERO flexibility for at least another year.

30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It is, and if that was a common thing I’d be more concerned, but it was fluky. Other than that and the overthrow to Hooper that should have been picked, he played a pretty decent game tbh.

Fluky from a fumble/result standpoint yes; from a pressure standpoint, that's been his struggle and issue for his entire career. Blitz him, pressure him, and he's going to fold and going to be unable to get the job done. I'm not asking for big boy hero ball throws here, but when a coach calls a screen pass because he reads a Cover 0 engage 8 style blitz, and it's the perfect play, it's wide open, and you double clutch it like he has for 3+ years now, that's absolutely not a fluke and is on him.

Yes, he played a decent game, but I expect my QB to execute a basic screen pass if he's going to struggle reading pressure and the coach makes it that easy for him. And I know I've had some fun trolling him over the last 2 weeks, but now that the season is basically over, I'm going to go back to realistic analysis.

The pressure metrics and analytics with him are MISERABLE, and that IS something he needs to improve on, otherwise he can leave after next year...or earlier.

[buno67]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Easier said than done. You have to go back to some major philosophical installation and personnel groupings, and they are victims of having a Week 13 BYE. Asking anyone to do that in season is a disaster waiting to happen, and let's be real, injuries to Hunt, the COVID RB issue that lingered, OBJ's drama, and the decimated OT situation all factored into needing to use the TE heavy packages more for pass protection, personnel shortcomings, and to protect Baker who has been really hurt, as well as playing poor football (whether it's due to injuries or not).

Not asking to reinvent the entire offense but develop some Better wrinkles to the damn scheme

hell we saw Freddie install the full house concept in a freaking week and ran it successfully. I think it was vs the crap falcons but this browns team couldn’t even do anything differently vs the lions

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Going forward after the BYE, I have this as an expectation, which is probably a mistake on my part. It's time to put your best players on the field, see if you can see something the rest of the way, and salvage some portions of the season for the woefully inept offense we've had the last 2 months minus an outlier Cincinnati game.

yep, time to go all in.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

I guess I look around and say "who else is there?". Start giving him some receiver reps in the slot and see, otherwise it HAS to be Hunt.

Njoku, Hunt, Breshad Effing Perriman who is still on the Buccaneers PS, hell even Bradley has made a play or two.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

No question about it, but it needs to be within the system and timing as opposed to freelancing (see my issues with OBJ).

Absolutely.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

We really lack any semblance of a consistent vertical threat unless it's DPJ, who in a perfect world if OBJ pans out, absolutely is killing it as a #3 right now. By default, he's our #1 outside option, and he's just not ready for that yet IMO.

Yeah, DPJ is a solid 3, really great #4 on a team with good receivers.  He’s arguably a 4 in both Cincy and Pittsburgh.

Love his development so far, but he’s not ready to be “the man”.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

And his contract gives us ZERO flexibility for at least another year.

You using Spotrac?

Check here

https://overthecap.com/player/austin-hooper/4794/

post June 1, 3.75 in dead cap, 9.5 in savings.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Fluky from a fumble/result standpoint yes; from a pressure standpoint, that's been his struggle and issue for his entire career. Blitz him, pressure him, and he's going to fold and going to be unable to get the job done. I'm not asking for big boy hero ball throws here, but when a coach calls a screen pass because he reads a Cover 0 engage 8 style blitz, and it's the perfect play, it's wide open, and you double clutch it like he has for 3+ years now, that's absolutely not a fluke and is on him.

fluky in the he lost his grip.  It wasn’t a turnover because of a bad read or whatever.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Yes, he played a decent game, but I expect my QB to execute a basic screen pass if he's going to struggle reading pressure and the coach makes it that easy for him. And I know I've had some fun trolling him over the last 2 weeks, but now that the season is basically over, I'm going to go back to realistic analysis.

The pressure metrics and analytics with him are MISERABLE, and that IS something he needs to improve on, otherwise he can leave after next year...or earlier.

How much of those pressure issues are due to scheme/personnel though?  Like, for example when they go cover 0 and you don’t have time to make a couple of reads, who’s the one dude he has in his back pocket where he can just grip it and rip it to them?
 

The last play of the game was another good example.  He made the right read/throw.  The receiver has to beat their man in that situation.

And I’ve seen multiple times, specifically with Hance where he gets help and still allows a sack (thinking of the Pitt game where he had the outside chip and got beat TO THE INSIDE).  If you’re giving help, you have to expect some time for guys to get open as you’ve only got a couple guys out in routes. You can’t double a guy AND allow them to get the sack. You can’t have 7 man protections and still get quick pressure.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

20 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Not asking to reinvent the entire offense but develop some Better wrinkles to the damn scheme

hell we saw Freddie install the full house concept in a freaking week and ran it successfully. I think it was vs the crap falcons but this browns team couldn’t even do anything differently vs the lions

Or just play Hunt and Chubb together ffs. It’s not even creative, but at least something different.

[MWil23]

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

yep, time to go all in.

Njoku, Hunt, Breshad Effing Perriman who is still on the Buccaneers PS, hell even Bradley has made a play or two.

Fine, either of those guys then.  

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah, DPJ is a solid 3, really great #4 on a team with good receivers.  He’s arguably a 4 in both Cincy and Pittsburgh.

Love his development so far, but he’s not ready to be “the man”.

Considering the lack of development and/or coaching he had at UM, I'm not surprised. He was always a 2-3 year project that we hoped would compliment OBJ and Juice. We've seen flashes, but consistency really is lacking there. It's not his fault he's been thrust into this role, but we really need him to be an ideal #2 at least.

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You using Spotrac?

Check here

https://overthecap.com/player/austin-hooper/4794/

post June 1, 3.75 in dead cap, 9.5 in savings.

Beautiful!

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

fluky in the he lost his grip.  It wasn’t a turnover because of a bad read or whatever.

He lost his grip because he double clutched and didn't trust his eyes. That's a major problem.

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

How much of those pressure issues are due to scheme/personnel though?  Like, for example when they go cover 0 and you don’t have time to make a couple of reads, who’s the one dude he has in his back pocket where he can just grip it and rip it to them?

It's been my major issue of his going back to the CFP game in the 2nd half vs. Georgia. It's not just a 2021 thing...it's the entire body of work.

Granted, this is only through Week 4 and vs. Cincinnati it was great, but still:

Baker Mayfield Under Pressure	Completion %	PFF passing grade
2018	51.7	58.8
2019	45.5	61.5
2020	43.7	40.9
2021	33.3	39.8

This is two weeks later:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/10/how-baker-mayfield-is-performing-under-pressure-and-creating-it-on-his-own.html

It's literally worse against the blitz. That's alarming.

Oh, and for those of you who think it's somehow Stefanski's fault and scheme:

And no quarterback has spent more time in a clean pocket on average than Mayfield since Stefanski took over as head coach.

LONGEST AVERAGE TIME IN A CLEAN POCKET SINCE 2020

Player	Average time in clean pocket per dropback
Baker Mayfield	2.5 seconds
Cam Newton	2.5 seconds
Lamar Jackson	2.4 seconds

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-cleveland-browns-quarterback-baker-mayfield-injury-contract-extension-2021?scrlybrkr=33be92cf

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The last play of the game was another good example.  He made the right read/throw.  The receiver has to beat their man in that situation.

The issue is that you're stuck with Njoku, who should be a TE, on a nickel back because you have zero weapons on the outside. I agree. But, he can't read a blitz and can't audible to a hot route, so while that late game situation is a good example, if you're able to hit some hot route throws, you get blitzed less or torch blitzes too. He throws INT's, panics, has awful eye discipline frantically looking at defenders instead of keeping his eyes downfield, etc.

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And I’ve seen multiple times, specifically with Hance where he gets help and still allows a sack (thinking of the Pitt game where he had the outside chip and got beat TO THE INSIDE).  If you’re giving help, you have to expect some time for guys to get open as you’ve only got a couple guys out in routes. You can’t double a guy AND allow them to get the sack. You can’t have 7 man protections and still get quick pressure.

I don't disagree with you there, but I'd say those have been outliers as the stats above over the course of the past 4 years indicate (minus the 2019 throwaway season with a turnstyle OT situation).

[mtmmike]

Let him have more surgery and just call it a season.

Baltimore is a clear step below kc so let's have a healthy Mayfield next September 

[TeHDruiD]

One of the biggest things I seen is we're severely lacking at the WR position. Teams can load the box with no consequences

They need to attack that this offseason. I don't care who the QB is, they're going to have a long game if their WRs can't beat man coverage. That and this group is slow

Edited November 29, 2021 by TeHDruiD

[Kiwibrown]

I really wanted our 1st next year to be a dt. But it will have to be a wr. 

[Kiwibrown]

One issue Baker may have is he puts too much on the ball for the short routes and that is why we are seeing so many drops. 


He probably wants to fast ball a lot of passes because he wants to beat the Dline, which he has a problem with. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Kiwibrown

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

One issue Baker may have is he puts too much on the ball for the short routes and that is why we are seeing so many drops. 


He probably wants to fast ball a lot of passes

You just described Derek Anderson…

[Kiwibrown]

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

You just described Derek Anderson…

I just brought you back on board didnt I

[NudeTayne]

31 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

I just brought you back on board didnt I

He's 38, healthy and relatively low tread...

[MWil23]

47 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

I just brought you back on board didnt I

 

15 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

He's 38, healthy and relatively low tread...

Former pro bowler…