OTA Talk

[ET80]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

How much are we allowed to talk about this? Because I disagree with you pretty strongly - specifically if Watson ends up getting prosecuted criminally. Accidental Manslaughter =/= intentional sexual assault 22 times.

I'll agree that this takes a hard left if there is criminal prosecution, but that doesn't seem to be gaining traction (from everything I've heard/read). That could change.

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Obviously I could point out some other flaws in this argument, such as Ben/Hardy having the cases dropped, the different response from the league lately (Ray Rice, Zeke), the media pushback in our "cancel culture", etc.

Likewise, we don't know what is going to come from the Watson case - settlements, dropped cases, etc. He could just as easily fall into those instances.

Zeke still plays, so his inclusion isn't necessary (I never said Watson wouldn't be suspended - no, he's getting suspended). Rice? Part of why he was done after his issue is because he was on a significant downswing prior to his issue; 3.1 ypc, several injuries, position that sees a rapid decline - why would a team take a chance on a depreciating asset such as that, even without the added baggage?

[Matts4313]

10 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Zeke still plays, so his inclusion isn't necessary (I never said Watson wouldn't be suspended - no, he's getting suspended).

I included Zeke because he suspended when the NFL's own investigator said he should not be. Along with the female being proven a liar by multiple witnesses and text messages. They suspended him mostly because of bad press. 

10 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Rice? Part of why he was done after his issue is because he was on a significant downswing prior to his issue; 3.1 ypc, several injuries, position that sees a rapid decline - why would a team take a chance on a depreciating asset such as that, even without the added baggage?

Thats a good point. And you could add that he also leaked info about the Ravens GM IIRC. But the point still stands that the league did blackball him. 

[ET80]

Just now, Matts4313 said:

I included Zeke because he suspended when the NFL's own investigator said he should not be. Along with the female being proven a liar by multiple witnesses and text messages. They suspended him mostly because of bad press.

I have zero illusion that Watson won't be suspended. He's going to be suspended (and it's not going to be a small suspension either).

Texans will either have to hold onto him for the duration of the suspension or trade him at a discount - given the next two years seem like a hard reset, it's not like they need to take on a discount to keep things on track.

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Thats a good point. And you could add that he also leaked info about the Ravens GM IIRC. But the point still stands that the league did blackball him.

And I think that has to do with the lack of talent Rice brought to the table. Had this been early Rice - who could still put up Pro Bowl seasons - you'd probably see someone take a chance (take a look at Kareem Hunt).

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

take a look at Kareem Hunt

Unless I missed some other event, Hunt doesnt deserve being included in this conversation. He just kinda nudged a girl with his foot IIRC. I highly doubt it even left a mark. 

Maybe I am missing something tho. I just remember that one video a few years ago. 

[ET80]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

Unless I missed some other event, Hunt doesnt deserve being included in this conversation. He just kinda nudged a girl with his foot IIRC. I highly doubt it even left a mark. 

That's subjective - some view it as a nudge. Some view it as a kick. Still led to a suspension and release, which led to Cleveland and a clean bill of behavior for the most part.

[Matts4313]

11 minutes ago, ET80 said:

some view it as a nudge. Some view it as a kick.

You are right about pretty much everything - but just to clarify this point - the victim herself called it a 'shove' and the police ruled it was not assault even after seeing the tape. I dont think anyone could possibly think that was a kick with the intent to physically harm her. There is a strong case that it was bullying and emotional abuse, tho. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Matts4313

[RaidersAreOne]

Yannick Ngakoue has looked great early. Very happy we seemingly added a legit pass-rusher. 

[ronjon1990]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

Was Tyreek really THAT long ago? I'll concede on Leonard Little, but the rest were under the watchful eye of Roger Goodell, all had significant blowback from the general population (I think PETA still dislikes Vick) but all sort of floated into the background once said player did what they did best.

Will there be blowback? Sure. Is Watson going to be traded for a significant amount? Not as much as we originally thought (Matt Stafford is now a more considerable comparison, IMO). But to assume he's going to get a lifetime ban? I mean, where's your context to validate this opinion? I honestly don't think there's been a lifetime ban by Goodell (Josh Gordon and Aldon Smith get repeat chances despite falling into the same traps) and I doubt there isn't an owner who would look past anything for a chance to bring in one of the rarest commodities in sports, a franchise QB.

I'll admit it's not 2021. 2022, once there's clarity to the situation, I don't see how Watson isn't starting.

To the first point:

That there could very well be significant and serious criminal charges filed at some point. Forget about public opinion blowback, as an attorney I couldn't care less about that. You're correct in that that hardly matters in the long run. 

However, there is a particular area it matters: how long? 

Deshaun Watson's legal team, if they're worth their salt, would do everything possible to keep him from going to jail (on top of the potential fallout from the civil case, such as him losing all of his endorsements and such). That alone makes it highly unlikely to be resolved in 2022, given that depositions for the civil case aren't even scheduled until then and the authorities in Houston seem to be waiting for that to play out. 

If criminal complaints are filed, that could easily stretch into 2023, 2024, or even beyond. Once the authorities start digging, who knows what else (if anything) could pop up as a complaint. I've seen, first hand, a case that seemed like a cut and dry state-level misdemeanor turn into a federal felony once evidence starts coming into the criminal prosecution aspect of a case. That could drag it out longer, but yes, it's speculation. 

Regardless, I can easily see this matter dragging on well into 2023 at the least. In that time, the likelihood of a team touching him are about as low as it gets. First, from a PR standpoint, it would be a disaster, particularly in the event he's actually convicted. From a practical standpoint, why would a team trade for a guy in his position, when it's possible he never winds up playing? 

As time moves forward, he could very well wind up on the exempt list until something changes. If that goes on into 2023-2024, you're now talking about a guy who will not have played in 2+ years and there's still the possibility that the issues aren't resolved to the point of him taking snaps. 

I never mentioned a lifetime ban, those are your words/assumptions, not mine. My viewpoint on it is strictly the length of time this ordeal could easily last. A couple years at least, possibly more. Frankly, depending on the course of proceedings, 2025 could roll around before there's real clarity. 

Then, if he is found guilty, there goes a few more years potentially. Next thing you know, it's 2027, 2028, 2029 before he's out of the legal entanglements. 

The point is, nobody knows how long it will take or how serious it will get, other than it will take a while based on what we already know to be true (ie: the date of the depositions being all the way in 2022 as is). In the meantime, teams know that the PR would almost assuredly be brutal in the meantime, and, until it's entirely off the table, the downside could be really, really bad if it goes south for him. It's just not something that is likely going to wrap up quickly given the nature of the allegations, the number of them, and the processes involved in civil and potentially criminal proceedings. Wr simply don't know, and until we do, the risk far outweighs any potential reward. 

 

To your second point, you're mixing "clarity" in with being exonerated and cleared of filed or potential charges. That's putting the cart before the horse. It could very easily become "clear" by mid 2022 that Deshaun Watson is royally screwed and looking at significant incarceration time. It could very well simply become "clear" that this isn't going away anytime soon, making someone taking him in a bizarre move at best considering how badly it could go. 

Again, we just don't know. But what is fairly discernable is that nobody is touching him this year, and by 2022 if things aren't going well, he wouldn't need a lifetime ban to likely never step foot on a football field again. 

 

 

Either way, probably best to move on to more football related topics. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by ronjon1990

[ET80]

16 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Either way, probably best to move on to more football related topics

I can agree to this, but will comment on this:

16 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I never mentioned a lifetime ban, those are your words/assumptions, not mine

 

On 6/15/2021 at 3:16 PM, ronjon1990 said:

Someone might give up multiple firsts for someone who doesn't play another snap. 

Perhaps this is where we got lost in translation. I read this and see/think you're referencing a ban.

The rest of your post is pretty thorough, really good stuff - I'm right now not thinking the criminal aspect of it, simply because we haven't heard much about it locally since Tony Buzbee made his initial claims that he wouldn't get proper investigations because Rusty Harden's son is part of HPD Central Command. 

From your perspective (just getting insight): Do the number of criminal cases change your timeline? 22 accusers have filed civil cases, but only two have filed criminal charges. I keep seeing people reference 22 criminal cases, and that's simply not the case.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

From your perspective (just getting insight): Do the number of criminal cases change your timeline? 22 accusers have filed civil cases, but only two have filed criminal charges. I keep seeing people reference 22 criminal cases, and that's simply not the case.

Honestly, it depends a lot on the circumstances.

As you said, there are still roughly 20 cases that haven't resulted in criminal charges- caveat always being "yet" since who knows when or if they ultimately will (no insinuation of guilt or innocence meant, btw, strictly speaking about procedures)

Theoretically, they would wait until the civil cases (which are almost assuredly going to be more or less tried together) before moving on with any criminal matters. That said, that would be if things always worked perfectly. 

More directly to your question: Yes, my timeline would change under certain circumstances. 

Say they were to move forward with the 2 counts referenced today, and then in a few months or so, there's enough evidence for 2 more. That could alter the timeline if they wind up being tried separately or any prescriptive periods that may lapse could change it. 

The sheer number of potential cases still being out there, imo, is why I think it could slog along for a while. If it were just the 2 accusations, I wouldn't feel so strongly about him being out a while for the most part. But with ~20 potential counts/cases/claims still out there with their own individual timelines....man it could wind up being a mess from a procedural standpoint. 

What's that mean for football? Imo, 2021 is off the table for him. And likely 2022, though his future likely becomes clearer then. After that...it's anyone's guess how long it could take for him to be able to play/someone to sign him (which, I hate, btw. I mean, he's not hurting for money, but it's almost never beneficial for either party to get sucked into lomg periods of litigation for a variety of reasons. You like to think its an efficient process, but it's not, and often not really that "fair" either)

[Trentwannabe]

Is this legit? Or does Baltimore have their own ESPN troll like Buffalo did for years with Mike Rodak?

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, Trentwannabe said:

Is this legit? Or does Baltimore have their own ESPN troll like Buffalo did for years with Mike Rodak?

This was talked about on Reddit all day, as far as I could tell, its real.

[kingseanjohn]

2 hours ago, Trentwannabe said:

Is this legit? Or does Baltimore have their own ESPN troll like Buffalo did for years with Mike Rodak?

So they'll still record the majority of practice?

[AkronsWitness]

3 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

So they'll still record the majority of practice?

Sounds like they are trying to eliminate the hyper focus on Jackson's development. You know, the same media treatment that Tua is going through now from a bad throwing practice.

Its crazy, but it's also smart. Eliminate distracting questions that would otherwise be the highlight of every post practice interview.

Edited June 17, 2021 by AkronsWitness

[Kirill]

3 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

So they'll still record the majority of practice?

LMAO this was the best comment I can recall seeing from a fellow Kc fan on here.