cannondale Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) Lazard and MVS are career 35 catch a year guys. Barely a blip on the screen of talent that the 2011 guys had. And I say that because of MLF's system. Lazard is a nice story, but he wouldn't have even seen the field in MM's system. Edited August 8, 2021 by cannondale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 I think by the end of this season I would agree with the premise of this topic. Give Lazard a full season starting without injuries and I think he'll be very good. I think MVS is going to take a big jump this year too. I also think the depth guys like Lewis and Degura, the fact that we have at least 6 strong WR's will mean this offence will be something very special this year. Rodgers I feel needs options and trust in those options, so having multiple recievers to pass to will really take this offence up notch from last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike778 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 The big selling point of the 2011 group was the depth. Jennings may not be the best WR1 ever but Nelson was probably better than the opposition CB2, Jones was better than their CB3, Driver was better than the CB4, Cobb was better than the CB5 The 2021 group is very different. Adams is elite but beyond that we don't have the same 'our WR2/WR3/W4 is better than your CB2/CB3/CB4' factor which made the 2011 group so special. MVS is obviously dangerous but you wouldn't say he was better than the average WR2. We don't have a WR3 who is better than most CB3s. We clearly don't have what made the 2011 group special so definitely not is the answer to the original post. But we do have an elite WR1 which makes it a very different challenge to defend against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike778 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Brit Pack said: I think by the end of this season I would agree with the premise of this topic. Give Lazard a full season starting without injuries and I think he'll be very good. I think MVS is going to take a big jump this year too. I also think the depth guys like Lewis and Degura, the fact that we have at least 6 strong WR's will mean this offence will be something very special this year. Rodgers I feel needs options and trust in those options, so having multiple recievers to pass to will really take this offence up notch from last year. You are making lot of projections here, if guys make a big jump then yes we could have elite depth. We have to acknowledge the WR2-WR5 from the 2011 was much stronger than the 2021 team (as things stand). And its that which made the 2011 group so special, the our WR2/WR3/WR4 is better than your CB2/CB3/CB4 which we don't have now. We could do if a lot of stuff happens but you can say that about any position. I think Lazard has a relatively slow ceiling, MVS could be anything - he could be an absolute monster, he also looks like the kind of guy who could fall off badly. Or he could remain at his dangerous but very inconsistent level. Its anyone's guess. Edited August 9, 2021 by mikemike778 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredpack Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Don’t think it’s the best receiving core, but could be the best offense he’s had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 I think the issue here is that people look at Cobb and Driver as really tilting things, when Driver was the equivalent of this year's Cobb (competent vet who is just barely on the good side of washed) and that year's Cobb was Amari Rodgers (let's see how this kid does). Adams > Jennings, and depending on who you want to rate as #2 (probably MVS), Jordy was definitely better than him but I don't know that Jones had all that much more upside than Lazard at #3. Maybe a little. I also don't think it's out of the bounds of possibility that MVS could continue to progress and close that gap at #2 - I don't see him being better than Jordy, but if he remains a consistent deep threat and also is able to play like he did in wk 14 vs Det (6/6 for 85 yds) he can make it less of a mismatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat&Beer Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Even if this receiving corps was as good as 2011, they wouldn't have the same impact. The reason being that Lafleur's offense utilizes TE's and RB's much more in the passing game than McCarthy's did. Just 2 very different offenses that utilize players in different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, mikemike778 said: You are making lot of projections here, if guys make a big jump then yes we could have elite depth. We have to acknowledge the WR2-WR5 from the 2011 was much stronger than the 2021 team (as things stand). And its that which made the 2011 group so special, the our WR2/WR3/WR4 is better than your CB2/CB3/CB4 which we don't have now. We could do if a lot of stuff happens but you can say that about any position. I think Lazard has a relatively slow ceiling, MVS could be anything - he could be an absolute monster, he also looks like the kind of guy who could fall off badly. Or he could remain at his dangerous but very inconsistent level. Its anyone's guess. Of course that is exactly my point it that it is a projection. The reason for the hope in that projection is that our WR players are entering a time to exploit that growth having been with the team a number of years. Which is exactly what happend with our 2011 team. If you look at the 2010 team, at the end of the season, FInley was coming off a season where he had 300 yards and end up more than doubling that production in 2011. Just as Jordy did, his production jumped from 2010 player, where he manged 580 yards to getting more than double that in 2011 at 1200+. All it takes is a couple of players to kick on after being in the team for a few seasons. Randal Cobb in 2011 was a total unknown as a rookie and had 375 yards in 2011.So if we look at this in context at the end of the 2010 season we had: Jennings coming off a 1265 yard season JJ coming of a 679 yard season Jordy coming of a 582 yard season DD coming of a 565 yard season Finley coming of a 301 yard seasonThey went on to have the following season in 2011: Jordy coming off a 1263 yard season Jennings coming off a 949 yard season Finley coming of a 767 yard season JJ coming of a 635 yard season DD coming of a 445 yard season And Cobb as rookie had 375 yardsFor the current Packers we have coming of a 2020 season: Adams coming off a 1374 yard season MVS coming off a 690 yard season Tonyan coming off a 586 yard season Lazard coming off a 451 yard season (10 games) Cobb coming off a 441 yard season (10 games) Funchess hasn't played for two years, last time he did he had 549 yards in 2018 And we have Amari as a rookie So when looking at the seasons that 2010 Packers had and the 2020 Packers is set up very similar. It all comes down to how well do the players who have been on our roster and in Funchess case other rosters, grow this season. If they grow like the 2010 season Packers then I could see them surpass that team and when we look at it on paper the 2020 team of recievers did better than the 2010 team of recievers. Edited August 9, 2021 by Brit Pack 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Even if you squint and draw a hard like in the sand that versatility doesn't matter at all here, I still don't see a case. Even giving Lazard all the credit in the world as a dig out blocker, he's still not a better slot receiver than Cobb. Even giving him probably more credit than he deserves on the perimeter, he's still not a better boundary guy than Jones. And versatility does matter. With the exception of Cobb, every receiver on that 2011 team could play both slot and boundary. On this team, Cobb, Rogers, and even Funchess (for reasons I can't figure out) don't play boundary, and MVS really only plays slot for shot plays. Even Lazard doesn't really run a full tree out of the slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Even if you squint and draw a hard like in the sand that versatility doesn't matter at all here, I still don't see a case. Even giving Lazard all the credit in the world as a dig out blocker, he's still not a better slot receiver than Cobb. Even giving him probably more credit than he deserves on the perimeter, he's still not a better boundary guy than Jones. And versatility does matter. With the exception of Cobb, every receiver on that 2011 team could play both slot and boundary. On this team, Cobb, Rogers, and even Funchess (for reasons I can't figure out) don't play boundary, and MVS really only plays slot for shot plays. Even Lazard doesn't really run a full tree out of the slot. Thats interesting. I didnt know that Funchess doesnt set/line up on the outside. Limiting factors isnt what this guy needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 11 minutes ago, Leader said: Thats interesting. I didnt know that Funchess doesnt set/line up on the outside. Limiting factors isnt what this guy needs. I'm not sure it's necessarily that he can't. He just has never had a plus season on the boundary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 31 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I'm not sure it's necessarily that he can't. He just has never had a plus season on the boundary. I could theorize a possible reason for that....he's just not that quick. Better to line him up in the slot against CB #3 or a LB - where he can use his size in space cutting both left and right. For no known reason, I hope he sticks.....perhaps his play in the preseason games will change that thinking - but it seems like he's gonna be a tight fit having a lot of "not quite his strong suit" aspects. Who knows. Bring on the PS games and lets find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 I really want to feel like Adams is better than Jennings. But I think it is more like they are on the same tier. We drool over Adams right now because he is a stud, and he gets targets. I'll look at the top 3 "target" years for the two WR's. Adams 2018=169 targets in 15 games. 11.26 per game. 2019=127 targets in 12 games. 10.58 per game. 2020=149 targets in 14 games. 10.64 per game. Jennings 2008=140 targets in 16 games. 8.75 per game. 2009=119 targets in 16 games. 7.4 per game. 2010=125 targets in 16 games. 7.8 per game. Add in a depleted WR corp the last few years with Adams and yah, he deserves targets. But if Jennings were in his prime, and the only "real" option out there, we would have loved him even more. Had he kept his mouth shut after leaving. Jennings was a stud, plain and simple. Just like Adams is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 You guys know that I am an MVS fan. And Jordy is a no good flat lander. But look at 2008-10 Jordy vs 2018-20 MVS. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NelsJo00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/ValdMa00.htm At this point in their careers neither had an advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Talent-wise, I'm not sure I'd agree with the OP's statement. Statistically speaking, 2011 was mostly an air show, with a token run now and then. In 2021, we have a legit running game so I'd be surprised if 'statistically this year's group out-preforms 2011, even using our backs as receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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