Injury Tracker

[Jeremy408]

4 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

The Ramsey game was 2016.  2017 everything fell apart and it continued into 2018 so we can only speculate what it was but as soon as Cooper got to Dallas they turned into a playoff team.  He was their missing piece.  

I understand the year to year cap stuff but we have had horrible FA signings every year.  We could have made the money work for both.  Trent Brown, TW, Joyner, MM, Littleton, Nassib, Whitten, John Brown, Collins, Drake, Ferrell (Would not have drafted him if Mack was still here), Abram (The pick we got for Cooper so Joseph is still on the team for less than a million), Arnette (Is not contributing anything right now) and Jacobs (One key piece we would have to replace).

There are some key things about what you're saying: A lot of people who defend why we should've probably paid Cooper usually say 2016. Here's the problem if you actually look at the 2016 schedule most of the teams they played either A. Had a bottom 10 team that year B. Had a bottom 10 defense c. Had both. Because of this it made a lot of raider players look like they were a lot better than they were(Derek Carr for example). Because of that he didn't see a lot of true number one corners that year. also didn't say both Broncos games and those games he did very little also. This is because they had Chris Harris and Aqib Talib.

That's why 2017 came around and he didn't look as good

Then 2018 came around and he didn't look good on the raiders(because the schedule was hard in terms of really good corners he played until being traded to the Cowboys who played virtually no shut down corners for the rest of the season after Amari Cooper got traded. 

I've heard the whole Amari Cooper was the missing piece argument two things to think about: 

1. If Amari Cooper was the missing piece why do they never go to playoffs after the year they traded for him

2. Why after paying Amari Cooper 20 million did they draft a receiver in the first round in a year where the receiver class was completely loaded when they had obvious needs on defense. People try to say that it was because of the value of the pick but keep in mind they also already had a quality receiver in Michael Gallup.. I say based on his history it's because they knew that he can be a raced from the game with one player so they had to get more receivers. 

We got the money back for Joyner and Trent Brown and Tyrell Williams(who's specific issue wasn't really play but with more injuries I might add). Why I mention that it's less about the players and it's more about the money. What you could get for Cooper who are you know isn't worth the money you could get the players I mentioned in my last response assuming you have a competent defensive coordinator that actually knows what he wants. 

 

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, agarcia34 said:

That Abram injury is not good

It’s funny how we hate Abram But also don’t want him to get hurt lol

[big_palooka]

17 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

It’s funny how we hate Abram But also don’t want him to get hurt lol

Depth is a problem. Gillespie probably isn't ready for meaningful snaps. Teamer and Leavitt are down as well

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

If he's still struggling still, can I refer to him as Pleatherwood? 

Lololol nice

[ronjon1990]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

If he's still struggling still, can I refer to him as Pleatherwood? 

If he busts, we'll have Leatherwoof

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

There are some key things about what you're saying: A lot of people who defend why we should've probably paid Cooper usually say 2016. Here's the problem if you actually look at the 2016 schedule most of the teams they played either A. Had a bottom 10 team that year B. Had a bottom 10 defense c. Had both. Because of this it made a lot of raider players look like they were a lot better than they were(Derek Carr for example). Because of that he didn't see a lot of true number one corners that year. also didn't say both Broncos games and those games he did very little also. This is because they had Chris Harris and Aqib Talib.

That's why 2017 came around and he didn't look as good

Then 2018 came around and he didn't look good on the raiders(because the schedule was hard in terms of really good corners he played until being traded to the Cowboys who played virtually no shut down corners for the rest of the season after Amari Cooper got traded. 

I've heard the whole Amari Cooper was the missing piece argument two things to think about: 

1. If Amari Cooper was the missing piece why do they never go to playoffs after the year they traded for him

2. Why after paying Amari Cooper 20 million did they draft a receiver in the first round in a year where the receiver class was completely loaded when they had obvious needs on defense. People try to say that it was because of the value of the pick but keep in mind they also already had a quality receiver in Michael Gallup.. I say based on his history it's because they knew that he can be a raced from the game with one player so they had to get more receivers. 

We got the money back for Joyner and Trent Brown and Tyrell Williams(who's specific issue wasn't really play but with more injuries I might add). Why I mention that it's less about the players and it's more about the money. What you could get for Cooper who are you know isn't worth the money you could get the players I mentioned in my last response assuming you have a competent defensive coordinator that actually knows what he wants. 

 

Cooper was just as good in 2015, 2018, 2019, and 2020 as he was in 2016.  He was not the problem.  The problem was the 2017 WFT game.

                       2017

Cooper            680

Crabtree          618

Cook               688 

The team quit on Carr and JDR after that game.  I think when Gruden came in he tried to get rid of any players that caused a problem for Carr after that game.  Hence the reason why you here Carr now say we had people in the locker room that made it hard to come to work everyday.  We do not have that problem anymore.  Also why there were so man WTF moments.  Something happened in that locker room and Gruden has been trying to get rid of it for a while.  I have a few connections in the league but nobody will say anything about it.  They just give me a look.      

1) As far as why do the Cowboys not go to the playoffs every year? 2018 they did, 2019 they should have (6th ranked offense and 11th ranked defense), and 2020 the missing piece was a QB.

2) Because it was a great value?  this is an extreme example but if you have Myles Garrett and Chase Young is sitting there at pick number 10 do you pass on him?  No.  You need 2 DEs.  You almost always have 2 WRs and 3 WR sets are the norm for some teams.  If Dak does not break his leg he probably throws for 2,000 yards in the first five games.  I have no elusions that they would have kept it up but you would have to be blind to not see what they were trying.  Put as many weapons out there as possible and beat everyone in a shoot out.  Breaking his leg is probably the best thing possible that could have happened to Dak.  The Cowboys signed him to that extension thinking he really could put up 400 yards a game.  How many WRs can not be erased by a good CB?  Almost every WR has a CB that is their kryptonite.  Like I said earlier Cooper gets paid special attention in the passing game.  He makes you pick your poison.  Part of the reason why the other WRs can do so well.  You think Waller did not make that Ruggs TD happen?  It probably gets picked if Fitzpatrick is not out of position because he is worried about Waller.

3) I do not think Cooper is worth the money but what we did with it was worthless.  I like TW but if you suck or can not play because of injury does not matter.  You still do not help the team.  Guenther was the single biggest issue with this team so now I expect things to get much better.

On a side note if you put Cooper on this team now we probably put up 40 a game.  No team in the league could come close to matching up with us.  Put a safety over the top for Ruggs and Waller and Cooper beat their guys in the middle of the field all day long.  Renfrow looks like the chicken when Rocky is trying to catch it.  Edwards looks like he could be a number 1 eventually and Moreau is probably a top 10-15 TE if he is on a team as their top TE.  It would be fun but I am not trying to pay $20 million extra for that show.

[Bitty 2.0]

27 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Cooper was just as good in 2015, 2018, 2019, and 2020 as he was in 2016.  He was not the problem.  The problem was the 2017 WFT game.

                       2017

Cooper            680

Crabtree          618

Cook               688 

The team quit on Carr and JDR after that game.  I think when Gruden came in he tried to get rid of any players that caused a problem for Carr after that game.  Hence the reason why you here Carr now say we had people in the locker room that made it hard to come to work everyday.  We do not have that problem anymore.  Also why there were so man WTF moments.  Something happened in that locker room and Gruden has been trying to get rid of it for a while.  I have a few connections in the league but nobody will say anything about it.  They just give me a look.      

1) As far as why do the Cowboys not go to the playoffs every year? 2018 they did, 2019 they should have (6th ranked offense and 11th ranked defense), and 2020 the missing piece was a QB.

2) Because it was a great value?  this is an extreme example but if you have Myles Garrett and Chase Young is sitting there at pick number 10 do you pass on him?  No.  You need 2 DEs.  You almost always have 2 WRs and 3 WR sets are the norm for some teams.  If Dak does not break his leg he probably throws for 2,000 yards in the first five games.  I have no elusions that they would have kept it up but you would have to be blind to not see what they were trying.  Put as many weapons out there as possible and beat everyone in a shoot out.  Breaking his leg is probably the best thing possible that could have happened to Dak.  The Cowboys signed him to that extension thinking he really could put up 400 yards a game.  How many WRs can not be erased by a good CB?  Almost every WR has a CB that is their kryptonite.  Like I said earlier Cooper gets paid special attention in the passing game.  He makes you pick your poison.  Part of the reason why the other WRs can do so well.  You think Waller did not make that Ruggs TD happen?  It probably gets picked if Fitzpatrick is not out of position because he is worried about Waller.

3) I do not think Cooper is worth the money but what we did with it was worthless.  I like TW but if you suck or can not play because of injury does not matter.  You still do not help the team.  Guenther was the single biggest issue with this team so now I expect things to get much better.

On a side note if you put Cooper on this team now we probably put up 40 a game.  No team in the league could come close to matching up with us.  Put a safety over the top for Ruggs and Waller and Cooper beat their guys in the middle of the field all day long.  Renfrow looks like the chicken when Rocky is trying to catch it.  Edwards looks like he could be a number 1 eventually and Moreau is probably a top 10-15 TE if he is on a team as their top TE.  It would be fun but I am not trying to pay $20 million extra for that show.

It was rumor that Osemele didn't block on the play that Carr broke his back. He was gone next season

[Jeremy408]

2 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Cooper was just as good in 2015, 2018, 2019, and 2020 as he was in 2016.  He was not the problem.  The problem was the 2017 WFT game.

                       2017

Cooper            680

Crabtree          618

Cook               688 

The team quit on Carr and JDR after that game.  I think when Gruden came in he tried to get rid of any players that caused a problem for Carr after that game.  Hence the reason why you here Carr now say we had people in the locker room that made it hard to come to work everyday.  We do not have that problem anymore.  Also why there were so man WTF moments.  Something happened in that locker room and Gruden has been trying to get rid of it for a while.  I have a few connections in the league but nobody will say anything about it.  They just give me a look.      

1) As far as why do the Cowboys not go to the playoffs every year? 2018 they did, 2019 they should have (6th ranked offense and 11th ranked defense), and 2020 the missing piece was a QB.

2) Because it was a great value?  this is an extreme example but if you have Myles Garrett and Chase Young is sitting there at pick number 10 do you pass on him?  No.  You need 2 DEs.  You almost always have 2 WRs and 3 WR sets are the norm for some teams.  If Dak does not break his leg he probably throws for 2,000 yards in the first five games.  I have no elusions that they would have kept it up but you would have to be blind to not see what they were trying.  Put as many weapons out there as possible and beat everyone in a shoot out.  Breaking his leg is probably the best thing possible that could have happened to Dak.  The Cowboys signed him to that extension thinking he really could put up 400 yards a game.  How many WRs can not be erased by a good CB?  Almost every WR has a CB that is their kryptonite.  Like I said earlier Cooper gets paid special attention in the passing game.  He makes you pick your poison.  Part of the reason why the other WRs can do so well.  You think Waller did not make that Ruggs TD happen?  It probably gets picked if Fitzpatrick is not out of position because he is worried about Waller.

3) I do not think Cooper is worth the money but what we did with it was worthless.  I like TW but if you suck or can not play because of injury does not matter.  You still do not help the team.  Guenther was the single biggest issue with this team so now I expect things to get much better.

On a side note if you put Cooper on this team now we probably put up 40 a game.  No team in the league could come close to matching up with us.  Put a safety over the top for Ruggs and Waller and Cooper beat their guys in the middle of the field all day long.  Renfrow looks like the chicken when Rocky is trying to catch it.  Edwards looks like he could be a number 1 eventually and Moreau is probably a top 10-15 TE if he is on a team as their top TE.  It would be fun but I am not trying to pay $20 million extra for that show.

Again it's not about the overall stash when it comes to him it's about what he does when a number one corner is put on him. Let's look at the years he mentioned from that standpoint: 

2015

Darius Slay 4 trgt 1 ctch 4 yrds 

Chris Harris Aqib Talib 8 trgts 0 ctch 0 yds / 4 trgts 4 ctch 47 yds

Darrelle revis 9 trgts 5 ctch 46 yds

2016 

We already mentioned this in the last post so we'll leave this alone

2017

Casey heyward 6 trgts 5 ctch 28 yds

Chris Harris Aqib Talib  8 trgts  2 ctch  9 yds /  1 trgts  1 ctch  9 yds

Stephon Gilmore  7 trgts 3 ctch 28 yds 

2018 

Aqib Talib 3 trgts 1 ctch 9 yds 

Xavien Howard 5 trgts 2 ctch 17 yds 

Casey Heyward  1 trgts 1 ctch 10 yds 

2019

Darius Slay 8 trgt 3 ctch 38 yrds 

Jalen Ramsey 2 trgt 1 ctch 19 yrds 

Stephon Gilmore 2 trgt 0 ctch 0 yrds 

With all of these being said there are a lot of games that he had the similar stats and there weren't even number one corners. The reason why his stats always look good is because he might have a random game where he goes for 200 yards which makes for three or four games where he got held to lower than 50 yrds. Whether he played for the dysfunctional Raiders or the Dallas Cowboys where he apparently was the missing link you can see the clear trend that whenever he plays a real number one corner he doesn't get off the bus

Now with that being said look at all the players that do beat number one corner coverage and let's see what they get paid in comparison to him

Tyreek hill $18 mil 

Allen Robinson 17 mil

Mike evans 16 mil 

Davante Adams 14 mil 

Stefon diggs 14 mil 

George kittle 15 mil 

Travis Kelce 15 mil

Notice how their teams are winning all the time and they have players that can't be stopped throughout a game by one defender(regardless of who that defender is). Do you feel comfortable with paying Amari Cooper 20 million to keep him so we can have a receiver that has big games every once in a while but disappears against the really good teams? 

That being said, here are the responses to some of your numbered points. 

1. The fact remains that Cooper who is the acclaimed missing link of the Cowboys has amounted to one playoff appearance(which took place the year they traded for him)

2. I think we can both agree that Cd lamb is not the receiver equivalent of miles Garrett or Chase young otherwise he would've went in the top five instead of the top 20

3. I will continue to repeat that what we do with the money that we saved by not overpaying Cooper is a separate issue then not overpaying cooper. It doesn't all of a sudden justify us overpaying Cooper because we didn't sign the right people with the money that we didn't pay him. Again that's 20 million we save annually(which means that we're still currently saving it now)

4. We wouldn't have the team right now that we have and Cooper were still on the team because he would be taking a chunk of the salary cap and maybe we score a lot of points but we're not stopping anyone on defense

 

[Jeremy408]

35 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

It was rumor that Osemele didn't block on the play that Carr broke his back. He was gone next season

Actually car broke his back in 2017; he wasn't gone until the 2019 off-season so that's two years difference

[Bitty 2.0]

30 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Actually car broke his back in 2017; he wasn't gone until the 2019 off-season so that's two years difference

I could be wrong on the player But I remember the rumor

[G]

Not worried about Leatherwood at all... Either a solid RT or ALL PRO GUARD at some point. He is a football player but drafted early in most eyes but many of the rookies aren't good and theyb moved Sewell to LT already because he was HORRIBLE at RT.  So I'll give Leatherface some time to slaughter the defender and if he struggles or we get a better RT, then move him inside as he replaces Good as our movable puzzle piece. I don't see a bust, just a reach. TM was a steal so balanced out in the end. 

Abram is playing good but I'd move Moe to SS and Gil at FS if worse case. Moe was seen by many as a great SS so... Doesn't have to stay that way but just like moving Leatherface to G it's about putting the best players on the field. Abram is healthy and Moe goes back to FS. Good FS or really good SS. Does it matter?!?

It's all about AVAILABILITY is the #1 ability. So adjust and adapt. 

[Geezy]

as far as Cooper goes, dude is a top 5 WR TALENT imo, but he disappears way too much to be making $20m. 

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

as far as Cooper goes, dude is a top 5 WR TALENT imo, but he disappears way too much to be making $20m. 

That's another thing: I don't think he's a top-five talent either.

He's 6'1 I think 190. Runs 4.42. 33 in vert. Has average hands. Very rarely do you see he him make a contested catch. He has really good route running. That's about it. To be honest there's not very much difference between him and and someone like Calvin Ridley

[dante9876]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

That's another thing: I don't think he's a top-five talent either.

He's 6'1 I think 190. Runs 4.42. 33 in vert. Has average hands. Very rarely do you see he him make a contested catch. He has really good route running. That's about it. To be honest there's not very much difference between him and and someone like Calvin Ridley

You better believe falcons gonna pay Calvin ridley to though. 

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Again it's not about the overall stash when it comes to him it's about what he does when a number one corner is put on him. Let's look at the years he mentioned from that standpoint: 

2015

Darius Slay 4 trgt 1 ctch 4 yrds 

Chris Harris Aqib Talib 8 trgts 0 ctch 0 yds / 4 trgts 4 ctch 47 yds

Darrelle revis 9 trgts 5 ctch 46 yds

2016 

We already mentioned this in the last post so we'll leave this alone

2017

Casey heyward 6 trgts 5 ctch 28 yds

Chris Harris Aqib Talib  8 trgts  2 ctch  9 yds /  1 trgts  1 ctch  9 yds

Stephon Gilmore  7 trgts 3 ctch 28 yds 

2018 

Aqib Talib 3 trgts 1 ctch 9 yds 

Xavien Howard 5 trgts 2 ctch 17 yds 

Casey Heyward  1 trgts 1 ctch 10 yds 

2019

Darius Slay 8 trgt 3 ctch 38 yrds 

Jalen Ramsey 2 trgt 1 ctch 19 yrds 

Stephon Gilmore 2 trgt 0 ctch 0 yrds 

With all of these being said there are a lot of games that he had the similar stats and there weren't even number one corners. The reason why his stats always look good is because he might have a random game where he goes for 200 yards which makes for three or four games where he got held to lower than 50 yrds. Whether he played for the dysfunctional Raiders or the Dallas Cowboys where he apparently was the missing link you can see the clear trend that whenever he plays a real number one corner he doesn't get off the bus

Now with that being said look at all the players that do beat number one corner coverage and let's see what they get paid in comparison to him

Tyreek hill $18 mil 

Allen Robinson 17 mil

Mike evans 16 mil 

Davante Adams 14 mil 

Stefon diggs 14 mil 

George kittle 15 mil 

Travis Kelce 15 mil

Notice how their teams are winning all the time and they have players that can't be stopped throughout a game by one defender(regardless of who that defender is). Do you feel comfortable with paying Amari Cooper 20 million to keep him so we can have a receiver that has big games every once in a while but disappears against the really good teams? 

That being said, here are the responses to some of your numbered points. 

1. The fact remains that Cooper who is the acclaimed missing link of the Cowboys has amounted to one playoff appearance(which took place the year they traded for him)

2. I think we can both agree that Cd lamb is not the receiver equivalent of miles Garrett or Chase young otherwise he would've went in the top five instead of the top 20

3. I will continue to repeat that what we do with the money that we saved by not overpaying Cooper is a separate issue then not overpaying cooper. It doesn't all of a sudden justify us overpaying Cooper because we didn't sign the right people with the money that we didn't pay him. Again that's 20 million we save annually(which means that we're still currently saving it now)

4. We wouldn't have the team right now that we have and Cooper were still on the team because he would be taking a chunk of the salary cap and maybe we score a lot of points but we're not stopping anyone on defense

 

My point about going up against the number 1 CBs is not always did they shut him down.  Sometimes the QB shuts down the WR by staying away from the CB on purpose.  WHy do you think Aso was so good.  Nobody threw to his side because the other DBs where getting smoked every week.  Aso had one year where QBs threw to his assignment under ten times the entire year.  Was he that good or were the other DBs that bad?  Who knows because the other teams did not have to try it out. 

I am not going to argue how good those players are relative to Cooper because I would probably take most of them over him so far but tell which of those guys does not deserve to get $20 million a year if they were getting a new contract this year?  Every single one of those players has multiple games every year that defenses take them away.  The games you say the CBs are taking Cooper away 1v1 go back and re-watch the games.  Carr use to talk about how teams constantly role coverage over to Cooper's side to help out.  

3 years on the team.  1st one they made the playoff.  second one they had the 6th best offense in the league.  Third year your starting QB breaks his leg and you are still a 1,000 yard WR.  You are the missing piece until another piece goes missing.

Yes and that is why I said sitting there at 10.  I could have said five and it is still a no brainer.  Young going at 5 is the equivalent to Lamb going 17.

What I said is we were better off paying Cooper than what we got in return.  It can be two separate issues but it does not change the truth of the statement.

You do realize that cap space roles over so if we gave him $20 million a year just like Dallas he would have cost us $38 million for the past 3.5 years.  You forget he was still on his rookie deal and you would subtract the Abram contract.  He would have amounted to an extra $98 million over 6.5 years.  So $15 million a year and I will not include what we might have done differently at WR like not take Ruggs at 12 which cost us a potential impact player and another $7 million so far and another $10 million the next 2 years.  Tyrell and Joyner cost use $43 million.  I doubt we go looking for John Brown either but that only cost us $1.75 million.  So keeping Cooper leads to most of those moves and you can not deny he is a better player than Ruggs or Tyrell.  So we end up with a better player and have to not sign a player we had no idea how to use (addition by subtraction and you can not say hindsight because myself and a lot of others called Joyner busting when they said he would not play safety) and it would cost us $36 million extra (Cooper is signed 1 year longer than Ruggs) over 6.5 years.  I did not count the Trent Brown contract because I was hyped we signed him when we did until I found out he was going to be a RT and how much he was getting but there plenty of other contracts I could easily use to justify the rest and make enough room for Mack.