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29 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Of course it doesn't considering when Dave was hired in 1993 and George only became Chairman in 2011...this idea that a family just keeps doing the same thing over and over is blown out the water when you consider how good Halas was and how bad the McCaskey's seem to be...time to move on from marking time and bring this franchise into the modern day.

Yes, Wannstadt was hired in 1993 by Mikey McCaskey whom Ginny had to eventually remove from his role when he screwed up a coaching hire with Dave McGinnis prior to our hiring **** Jauron.  But prior to that Mikey and Wanny had seven seasons of screwing things up and Mikey even longer before Wanny came along.

So Mikey actually screwed up three coaching hires.  #1 was replacing Ditka with Wanny.  #2 was screwing up the Dave McGinnis hire.  And #3 was hiring Jauron.

Here's the poop on him if you care to read it.

Michael B. McCaskey[1] (December 11, 1943 – May 16, 2020) was an American sports executive who was the chairman of the Chicago Bears in the National Football League from 1999 until 2011.[2]

Biography

McCaskey, son of current Bears principal owner Virginia Halas McCaskey and former Chicago Bears chairman Ed McCaskey, was the oldest grandchild of George Halas. He became president of the Bears in 1983 after Halas' death. McCaskey held that post until 1999, when he succeeded his father Ed as Chairman of the Board until 2011.[3] He was the brother of current Bears Chairman George McCaskey.[4]

McCaskey frequently clashed with Mike Ditka, who had been hired by Halas, but the volatile coach retained his job with an extension in 1984; the Bears won Super Bowl XX the following season, while McCaskey was named Sporting News executive of the year, the first Bears executive to receive the honor since Halas in 1956.[5]McCaskey finally fired Ditka after a losing season in 1992. Ditka's replacement was McCaskey's first coaching hire, Dave Wannstedt, who was a heavily-sought-after candidate by several teams. However, after a 1994 playoff appearance, the Bears posted more losing seasons; Wannstedt was fired after the 1998 season and, after a botched hiring of Dave McGinnis, McCaskey was stripped of much of his operational responsibilities and limited to the position of chairman of the board.

GMcC replaced Mikey as COB in 2011 and so far he's presided over the firing of Lovie Smith whose second only to Ditka and GSH himself in winning percentage and Jerry Angelo under whom we did make it to one SB and came with one game of a second one. The hiring a firing of Phil Emery and Marc Trestman.  And the hiring of Ryan and two HC.  John Fox and Matt Nagy.  One fired and Nagy only playing out the year before he too will be gone.

So....you tell me, or better yet show me were any McCaskey whose been in charge of this team in some capacity has ever shown they even have a small clue of how to get themselves out of the rut they've created since 1983.  They're like an airplane who periodically becomes airborne only to crash back to earth soon after and it has repeated itself ad nauseum since at least 1993 if not before.

47 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

this idea that a family just keeps doing the same thing over and over is blown out the water when you consider how good Halas was and how bad the McCaskey's seem to be...time to move on from marking time and bring this franchise into the modern day.

That's a nice idea Mike and one I'm highly in favor of but just how do you propose to do it when it's the same people who've been screwing up for all these years who still run and own the team?  Look at their W/L record and then tell me it's over blown.  Facts are facts Mike.

You want to move on?  Here's how we do it.

Hire an Exec VP of football ops and keep Teddy Bears even farther away from anything football related except a new stadium and hope he doesn't mess that up again.

Give said Exec VP total control over all team ops including the hiring and firing of a GM, a HC and staff, and all player personnel and scouting functions.  Some of these functions will be shared in by the GM and hopefully the HC as well.

The McCaskeys, assuming the still refuse to sell controlling interest, need to become the "silent partner" owners with no need to conduct pressers or do anything more than attend games and promote the Chicago Bears.

That's how you do and IMHO until that's been done just figure it's more of the same old BOHICA all over again.  They can't successfully manage a business and a sports team they simply don't have the skills to run.

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1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

Sean Payton would be the dream...with what he is working with this season in terms of talent due to injures is so far away from NFL standard it is unbelievable...he is an elite HC...

Of the more realistic options McDaniels has to be #1 IMO...love what he is going with that Pats offence right now and I think he is ready to strike out on his own...give him control over the roster to seal the deal if he wants it.

Don't stay strike out! lol

 

Josh McDaniels checks off everything I want in a head coach this go round:

Previous head coaching experience: 2 years
Extensive coaching experience: 22 years
Learning under a tremendous mentor: 18 years with Bill Belichick
Proven success with QBs not named Brady: Coached Matt Cassel, Jimmy Garoppolo and Mac Jones
Documented success as a play-caller with an understanding of run-pass balance


He might want more power/say, and I'm fine with it at this point. I also think Pace isn't much of an alpha in the room so he won't have an issue giving up some power to McDaniels so he can focus on scouting and drafting.


McDaniels is 45 years old, which is 2 years older than Sean Payton was when he took over the New Orleans Saints. Let's pair him up with Justin Fields for the next 10-15+ years and build a ******* dynasty.  Former GMs like Michael Lombardi blast us because he claims we have no identity, no sense of direction. That is supposed to come from your Executives, but George and Ted don't have a pulse on that and Ryan is too hell-bent on collaboration. Josh McDaniels having a vision and knowing what he wants is perfect to cure what ails the founding franchise of the NFL.

Edited by G08
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53 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I guess that's where we differ...if I see a problem that I am qualified to fix I don't want to just want to keep my hands clean...I would rather get in there and improve a company’s practices or ethics...improve the quality of the product or the service and makes it a better company for everyone...

If I have the relevant experience to coach the Bears or any franchise I would in a heartbeat to try and change the culture and make things better...would I fail? Perhaps...but no one ever succeeded by not trying.

Nice sentiments Mike but first you have to be allowed to do all those things and IMHO there's the rub.  Will those who outrank you permit you to do it?  If not then all you've got is a road to hell paved with good intentions.

When Prudential recruited me I gave them my ethical standards and those things I would need to have at my disposal to be successful working for them.  They promised me that I would have them then reneged before the ink was dry on the transfer forms required to move my licenses to them. They lied and cheated at every turn.

I had the skills to make a difference for them and also to teach and train others like me how to do it better.  But they didn't really want that at all.  It wasn't as profitable or so they thought.  They were in serious legal and regulatory trouble due to scamming clients to sell more insurance.  So they feigned improvements by hiring people like me but then refused to change.  It would be like working for Donald Trump. Pru was a fraud too.

Trying is a great platitude but in business, or sports, if you fail you get fired and there are no participation trophies.  IMHO when you accept a job you gotta know going in what it will take to make it a success for you and your employer.  If you lack any of the tools to do that you lose and in effect so do they but you're out on the street while they carry on and in the NFL they cannot fail so you lose alone.

I've left other situations as well and I've even fired clients because they refused to cooperate with me on how I needed to manage their accounts in order to succeed.  It's cost me money over the years but I've never had to defend myself to anyone legally or to regulators and in nearly every instance I hit goals I set out to achieve doing it my way but also with all of the support I needed to do it my way.  Whenever that failed I moved on rather than to be taken down with it.

I'm gonna wrap this up with one more question.  When Matt Nagy was hired he was one of the top HC prospects that year.  Once he's been let go by the Bears what do think his chances are of getting another HC job anytime soon?

If as Moose Muhammed once said Chicago is where WR come to die I wonder if the same can't be said about it's HC as well.  Check out their fortunes after having left Chicago.  Wanny never an NFL HC again, Jauron did get a HC job in Buffalo but lasted only 3 seasons with a similar record to that of coaching the Bears, Lovie Smith lasted two years as HC in Tampa Bay then 5 losing years at Illinois as HC and now a DC again at Houston.  Trestman went back to Canada and Fox hung it up.....thank God.

So there is always a career risk involved with any management level job anyone accepts and it's more ingrained in the NFL than it is running a Dairy Queen Franchise or most any other middle management position.  What I'm saying here is that prospects will also consider that and if not then it's their career they're risking coming in to fix what seemingly has never been able to be fixed as is.

 

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12 hours ago, G08 said:

Mind linking me to it?

Quote

 

HC – Moore – I love what he has done with Dak. He understands his players’ strengths and attacks with them. While the DAL offense miles better than the CHI roster it is built on two things. Having a bully OL and skill positions being major playmakers. They went for explosive talent and Moore is maximizing it.

GM - Will McClay – Like it or not the Cowboys have one of the most talented rosters in football, and McClay has been with them since 2009. He also has coaching experience. Granted it was Arena football but he was able to coach there for 15 years before moving to the other side of football.

OC – Joe Philbin – He was a meh HC but he is a top OL coach in the NFL. Got his roots in Green Bay and after going from OL to OC he went to be the HC of Miami. Offensively they actually improved a lot but the defense dropped off the map while he was there. Went back to GB as the OC and then was let go after being the interim HC when Fat Mac was fired. He did well there really but new HC wanted his new staff. Now he is the OL coach for the Cowboys. His experience would be FANTASTIC for Moore. As of right now DAL is also the best in the NFL for adjusted line yards.

 

^^^ https://forums.footballsfuture.com/topic/39133-staff-overhaul-for-2022-discuss-debate-deliberate-uh-d-speculate/

 

Realized part of my write up was a debate with a Facebook friend so I copied most of that below. Had to re-work some of my language and take out the insults we threw back and forth so this is the G-rated snippets. lol


 

Quote

 

Dude was with Green Bay for 10 years overall. He was an OL coach, went to OC and had a top 10 offense for 5 straight seasons. For some reason Chicago has been the whipping boy of Green Bay over the last 20 years but refuses to poach anyone from there. Clearly the QBs from Favre and Rodgers were and are massive reasons why but GB was the org that traded for Favre and drafted Rodgers (while we got Cedric Benson with the 4th overall pick - you remember how I flipped out about that). One of the other things they have had was regularly having a top OL. Philbin helped a ton in that. Remember how GB was stubborn as hell about free agency? Their OL was almost always better than ours and they kept developing their OL with draft picks. Who was the last OL who got BETTER as they went in Chicago for the first few years? Long probably? Leno started really bad and picked it up from there but 5 he wasn't even that good. Whitehair and Daniels aren't looking good, Peters is our best OL right now. Ridiculous.

Get Philbin as the OC/OL coach and get him to have a protoge that learns under him, let the rookie HC lean on Philbin to own the offense and the kid can focus on basically being a top paid playcaller and developing Fields. Desai did ok but with a rookie HC I'd really like a strong DC to own the defense like how Fangio did for Nagy and Phillips did for McVay. Either we need a retread or college HC with experience to own the whole thing or we need to let a rookie HC have top paid assistants. If McDaniels can get paid like a HC with Belichick why skimp with a rookie HC? That's just stupid. We have back up QBs making more money than a HC, WTF would we say our OC and DC can't make a good wage? They have WAY more impact on the game than the 3rd string QB.

Phibin wasn't "pure trash" in MIA, look at who he had to work with. Hartline was his top receiver, then Mike Wallace, then they got rookie Landry to burst on the scene, then he only got 4 games the next year. In his 3rd year he got Tannehill to throw for 4K yards, 27 TDs and 12 INTs and put up the 11th most PPG. Tannehill, Larmar Miller, rookie Landry and Mike Wallace did that. Bears have had way more talent and done WAY less - look at this year, last year, the year before, etc. Now he shouldn't get to pick players, the GM and HC are way above him on the totem pole there. But clearly he can get something out of not much. I'm not even asking him to run the entire offense. I'm asking him to act like an Assistant HC and develop the OL. Now if we get a defense HC then Philbin isn't the highest on my list for OC but still. Get Moore or Daboll and I will overpay an OL coach to help them, if one has previous HC experience then there is something to gleam from that IMO.

Hell if you want to look at things bluntly Philbin has more success with QB development than anyone the Bears have had in our lifetime. Rodgers took big strides with him, Tannehill didn't do as well after he was fired by MIA, etc. Our best years at QB are average for many QBs. Tru got worse under Nagy and we need to get rid of him before he ruins Fields too.

Again Philbin is being asked to have input for the HC that calls the plays, he is being asked to develop the OL, and is the senior assistant on the offense as the new HC takes more control. Why would his record in MIA with receivers work against him? He isn't drafting them, he is helping them but they have their own position coach, and the HC will be more actively involved there since their routes are literally half of every completed pass. If he is getting bashed for them not being a good group are you giving him credit for Landry, Javin Walker, Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, and Davante Adams? You giving him credit for all the top 10 offenses along the way? The MVP votes, All Pros, and Pro Bowls the offensive players got under him as an OC? If not, why? Those successes were in the role I'm literally asking him to be in, not HC.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, soulman said:

Yes, Wannstadt was hired in 1993 by Mikey McCaskey whom Ginny had to eventually remove from his role when he screwed up a coaching hire with Dave McGinnis prior to our hiring **** Jauron.  But prior to that Mikey and Wanny had seven seasons of screwing things up and Mikey even longer before Wanny came along.

So Mikey actually screwed up three coaching hires.  #1 was replacing Ditka with Wanny.  #2 was screwing up the Dave McGinnis hire.  And #3 was hiring Jauron.

Here's the poop on him if you care to read it.

Michael B. McCaskey[1] (December 11, 1943 – May 16, 2020) was an American sports executive who was the chairman of the Chicago Bears in the National Football League from 1999 until 2011.[2]

Biography

McCaskey, son of current Bears principal owner Virginia Halas McCaskey and former Chicago Bears chairman Ed McCaskey, was the oldest grandchild of George Halas. He became president of the Bears in 1983 after Halas' death. McCaskey held that post until 1999, when he succeeded his father Ed as Chairman of the Board until 2011.[3] He was the brother of current Bears Chairman George McCaskey.[4]

McCaskey frequently clashed with Mike Ditka, who had been hired by Halas, but the volatile coach retained his job with an extension in 1984; the Bears won Super Bowl XX the following season, while McCaskey was named Sporting News executive of the year, the first Bears executive to receive the honor since Halas in 1956.[5]McCaskey finally fired Ditka after a losing season in 1992. Ditka's replacement was McCaskey's first coaching hire, Dave Wannstedt, who was a heavily-sought-after candidate by several teams. However, after a 1994 playoff appearance, the Bears posted more losing seasons; Wannstedt was fired after the 1998 season and, after a botched hiring of Dave McGinnis, McCaskey was stripped of much of his operational responsibilities and limited to the position of chairman of the board.

GMcC replaced Mikey as COB in 2011 and so far he's presided over the firing of Lovie Smith whose second only to Ditka and GSH himself in winning percentage and Jerry Angelo under whom we did make it to one SB and came with one game of a second one. The hiring a firing of Phil Emery and Marc Trestman.  And the hiring of Ryan and two HC.  John Fox and Matt Nagy.  One fired and Nagy only playing out the year before he too will be gone.

So....you tell me, or better yet show me were any McCaskey whose been in charge of this team in some capacity has ever shown they even have a small clue of how to get themselves out of the rut they've created since 1983.  They're like an airplane who periodically becomes airborne only to crash back to earth soon after and it has repeated itself ad nauseum since at least 1993 if not before.

That's a nice idea Mike and one I'm highly in favor of but just how do you propose to do it when it's the same people who've been screwing up for all these years who still run and own the team?  Look at their W/L record and then tell me it's over blown.  Facts are facts Mike.

You want to move on?  Here's how we do it.

Hire an Exec VP of football ops and keep Teddy Bears even farther away from anything football related except a new stadium and hope he doesn't mess that up again.

Give said Exec VP total control over all team ops including the hiring and firing of a GM, a HC and staff, and all player personnel and scouting functions.  Some of these functions will be shared in by the GM and hopefully the HC as well.

The McCaskeys, assuming the still refuse to sell controlling interest, need to become the "silent partner" owners with no need to conduct pressers or do anything more than attend games and promote the Chicago Bears.

That's how you do and IMHO until that's been done just figure it's more of the same old BOHICA all over again.  They can't successfully manage a business and a sports team they simply don't have the skills to run.

Again man the bio of people who haven't been in the NFL for a decade are irrelevant IMO...the game has moved on and I am not prepared to just presume everyone in the building is dumb because of a surname…I will agree I want the McCaskey’s to step back and let football people run the team but I just think this negative “nothing ever changes” attitude is part of the problem…you have to always be adapting and the ownership need to find the person to led that…this is why Ted shouldn’t be in the position he is in but again it would only take the right GM to get in the ear of ownership to turn this franchise around…not only that but you get the right coach and winning makes everyone look much smarter…those are two spots we could/will see a change at this offseason.

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5 hours ago, soulman said:

Nice sentiments Mike but first you have to be allowed to do all those things and IMHO there's the rub.  Will those who outrank you permit you to do it?  If not then all you've got is a road to hell paved with good intentions.

When Prudential recruited me I gave them my ethical standards and those things I would need to have at my disposal to be successful working for them.  They promised me that I would have them then reneged before the ink was dry on the transfer forms required to move my licenses to them. They lied and cheated at every turn.

I had the skills to make a difference for them and also to teach and train others like me how to do it better.  But they didn't really want that at all.  It wasn't as profitable or so they thought.  They were in serious legal and regulatory trouble due to scamming clients to sell more insurance.  So they feigned improvements by hiring people like me but then refused to change.  It would be like working for Donald Trump. Pru was a fraud too.

Trying is a great platitude but in business, or sports, if you fail you get fired and there are no participation trophies.  IMHO when you accept a job you gotta know going in what it will take to make it a success for you and your employer.  If you lack any of the tools to do that you lose and in effect so do they but you're out on the street while they carry on and in the NFL they cannot fail so you lose alone.

I've left other situations as well and I've even fired clients because they refused to cooperate with me on how I needed to manage their accounts in order to succeed.  It's cost me money over the years but I've never had to defend myself to anyone legally or to regulators and in nearly every instance I hit goals I set out to achieve doing it my way but also with all of the support I needed to do it my way.  Whenever that failed I moved on rather than to be taken down with it.

I'm gonna wrap this up with one more question.  When Matt Nagy was hired he was one of the top HC prospects that year.  Once he's been let go by the Bears what do think his chances are of getting another HC job anytime soon?

If as Moose Muhammed once said Chicago is where WR come to die I wonder if the same can't be said about it's HC as well.  Check out their fortunes after having left Chicago.  Wanny never an NFL HC again, Jauron did get a HC job in Buffalo but lasted only 3 seasons with a similar record to that of coaching the Bears, Lovie Smith lasted two years as HC in Tampa Bay then 5 losing years at Illinois as HC and now a DC again at Houston.  Trestman went back to Canada and Fox hung it up.....thank God.

So there is always a career risk involved with any management level job anyone accepts and it's more ingrained in the NFL than it is running a Dairy Queen Franchise or most any other middle management position.  What I'm saying here is that prospects will also consider that and if not then it's their career they're risking coming in to fix what seemingly has never been able to be fixed as is.

 

It's not a sentiment if you do it right...it’s a chance to make a massive impact on the people of any organisation…believe me I have been there and done it…if you want to bring about real change it is as simple as showing people the benefits behind it…getting their buy in…then making them believe it was their idea all along…

As for the bold part what suspected opening out there has had sustained success? There is a reason these jobs are opening and for all the McCaskey’s faults knee jerk reactions are not one of them…if anything whoever the next coach is will get longer here even if things are going badly than in most franchises so I see no reason to think we are a riskier proposition than anyway else.

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54 minutes ago, G08 said:

Pace gets kicked upstairs

Thomas Dimitroff comes in as GM

Josh McDaniels as head coach


Huh... I don't hate it!

That's a blast from the past...wouldn't be my first choice but no doubt he has experience and a bit of a history with McDaniels...I wouldn't hate it either.

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26 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

That's a blast from the past...wouldn't be my first choice but no doubt he has experience and a bit of a history with McDaniels...I wouldn't hate it either.

It was a quick and lazy link because they overlapped in NE, plus Dimitroff had some success in the NFL.

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6 hours ago, G08 said:

Pace gets kicked upstairs

Thomas Dimitroff comes in as GM

Josh McDaniels as head coach


Huh... I don't hate it!

I've also thrown Eliot Wolf's name into consideration. He was a primary piece in GB, helped CLE make big jumps, and now is with NE. 

Regardless of McDaniels or not he is in my top list of GMs. 

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