OBJ Thread

[Thomas5737]

13 minutes ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

Part of the negotiations for the release was that we void the final two years of his contract so he can be a free agent after this year 

Hmmm that doesn't sound great for OBJ tbh. I don't think he matches that but maybe he can get a signing bonus to help out but if he thinks he is getting a 3 year 50 million dollar deal I think he will be upset with what will be offered.

[Thomas5737]

4 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

His 2021 salary was guaranteed because of his 2020 injury or we likely would have cut him in the offseason. No one else wanted that contract.

His base salary doesn't matter, his bonuses are included in that contract and follow him if he is traded or picked up off waivers. So it is 15 million.

You can cut him at no expense after this season so you aren't "stuck" with him but if you paid a 3rd and agreed to his salary you couldn't just cut him without taking a loss. Unless of course you get to the point where the loss is worth it to get him out of your building, which is where we are now.

The conversation was about waiting until the offseason to move OBJ.

After the new league year when his contract converts to non-guaranteed, a team absolutely could give up a 3rd and cut him without having to pay his base salary as long as it was done before the vested veteran termination pay stimulation kicked in. The only loss would be paying for his services and time during offseason OTA/salary agreements.

OBJ's 2021 base salary was guaranteed because he's a Vested Veteran (having accrued over 4 years) via the CBA meaning that as long as he's on the 53 man roster week 1 he's guaranteed the remainder of his salary balance as termination pay. He only had about $1.5 Million in roster or other guaranteed bonuses this year.

Once the season is over in the "the offseason," that base salary balance is paid and his contract converts to non-guaranteed at the start of the new league year. At that time, a team trading for him would have no cumbersome bonus to pay him nor no injury guarantees or upfront new guaranteed money. That means from March to Week 1, 53-man roster they could cut him with zero cost repercussions as a dead cap hit and his offseason roster bonuses.

When guys are on non-guaranteed contracts like that teams often restructure the contract to take away cap/salary burden and manage vested veteran risk while incentivizing the player with some new up front money. That mitigates risk moving forward and importantly OBJ's contract then can be moved in the offseason to another team without that team having to worry about big guaranteed bonuses and dead cap hits.

Read my bottom paragraph. You sill lose that 3rd if you cut him, teams aren't going to take that risk. If you cut him it wouldn't hurt the cap but that 3rd round pick is more valuable to the team than saving cap dollars in most instances because it gives you a player that will help relieve your cap.

[mtmmike]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Read my bottom paragraph. You sill lose that 3rd if you cut him, teams aren't going to take that risk. If you cut him it wouldn't hurt the cap but that 3rd round pick is more valuable to the team than saving cap dollars in most instances because it gives you a player that will help relieve your cap.

Thank you Thomas

[Empire Lies]

 

 

 

Wow, Schefter's article revealed that Andrew Berry fumbled unbelievably unless something is missing from the report.

OBJ played this tremendously.

His dad sends some tweets protecting him from conduct detrimental, he acts like he wants to return to practice, the Browns mismanaged and excuse him thinking they'd cut him with team favorable terms, OBJ becomes a free agent no matter what at season's end able to get a new contract and he still gets paid the rest of his contract.OBJ is getting everything he ever wanted and the Browns get no meaningful cap relief based on what's been reported thus far. 

Berry is getting 2 years removed from OBJ's contract and made it so $7.25 million would have to be eaten by a claiming team which means he'll likely going to go unclaimed.

Andrew Berry misplayed his hand likely thinking that he could excuse Odell and work out favorable contract changes such that the Browns don't have to incur the salary as OBJ's a vested veteran if he goes unclaimed.

Negotiations didn't go well given what's been reported. It makes zero sense if the Browns still have to pay $7.25 million and OBJ becomes of de facto free agent at season's end. I'm not getting what exactly the Browns are doing except being altruistic and hoping that doing well by OBJ shows to players that Andrew Berry is a GM of good will.

[pscottdai]

The Lions have waived WR Tyrell Williams from IR with an injury settlement.....Guess we know where OBJ is landing off of waiver claims

[Empire Lies]

  

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Read my bottom paragraph. You sill lose that 3rd if you cut him, teams aren't going to take that risk. If you cut him it wouldn't hurt the cap but that 3rd round pick is more valuable to the team than saving cap dollars in most instances because it gives you a player that will help relieve your cap.

 

I did and I responded accordingly.

We disagree on the inferences taken from mostly the same information as well as what a team gets for that 3rd rounder (or 4th or 5th) and why it's a cost-benefit win for most teams.

A team always has to give up something for a talented veteran player. To do so on a player with no signing bonus or heavy multi-year new money commitments is the safest, minimal risk way to get proven talents with question marks.

A team getting OBJ after the new league year for draft capital like a 3rd gives them the maximum amount of protection to gamble on high end talents while paying lower draft capital and being protected against catastrophic injury in the offseason.

If a team gives up a 3rd rounder after the new league year begins March 17th before the draft for OBJ, they'd be assuming that between March 18th and the 53 cut down August 31st nothing crazy would happen with OBJ. If something did in that time they could cut him with no cap responsibilities as we discussed. 

Such non-guaranteed contract each year for vested veterans are always the most renegotiated and restructured contracts in the offseason and agents are used to reducing those. This is also an assumed benefit of how vet talented players with some risk downside that occurs every offseason. OBJ would've fallen into this category.

Also, there's the benefit that if the move went belly up that there would be no money commits after year and the player could be cut. So, of course the 3rd rounder would be lost if say that player tore their acl after week 1, but these scenarios are the safest moves for teams to get talented vets and these types of trades happen every offseason, occurring with a salary restructure/change, and 3rd to 5th round draft capital surrendered to bet on talent upside.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Empire Lies

[Kiwibrown]

27 minutes ago, pscottdai said:

The Lions have waived WR Tyrell Williams from IR with an injury settlement.....Guess we know where OBJ is landing off of waiver claims

thank you John Dorsey!

[Kiwibrown]

I think Baker is going to thrive with guys who are on time and are where they are supposed to be 

[Kiwibrown]

Mayfield underthrew or overthrew Beckham on 27% of his attempts, according to ESPN Stats & Information, the third-highest rate of any quarterback-receiving duo in the league.

Mayfield has been far better throwing the ball to literally anyone else. His QBR targeting Beckham over the past three seasons is 58 (scale 0-to-100). But to every other Browns wide receiver, it is a combined 85.2.


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32559762/the-story-how-baker-mayfield-odell-beckham-jr-field-browns-relationship-fell-apart

Baker hasn't been the problem. It has been OBJ

Edited November 6, 2021 by Kiwibrown

[NateDawg]

I don’t think a bad team like Detroit even makes sense. OBJ was a malcontent in Cleveland. Why would he be a plus-factor somewhere, thrown in the middle of things, on a wasted year? 

I see him clearing waivers and going somewhere to a playoff contending team in need of a receiver. With an expiring contract, a bad team has no reason to claim that salary as a rental. 

[candyman93]

I think he ends up in Atlanta or Seattle.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

12 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

 

 

 

Wow, Schefter's article revealed that Andrew Berry fumbled unbelievably unless something is missing from the report.

The only part he fumbled was by not trading him/working out a deal sooner. And even then we really don’t know the details of the discussion.  Perhaps he demanded to be traded and they ignored him. Perhaps he asked and they talked and came to an agreement.  We just don’t know.

12 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

OBJ played this tremendously.

Yes.  He knew what he was doing and obviously planned this for a while.  

12 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

His dad sends some tweets protecting him from conduct detrimental, he acts like he wants to return to practice, the Browns mismanaged and excuse him thinking they'd cut him with team favorable terms, OBJ becomes a free agent no matter what at season's end able to get a new contract and he still gets paid the rest of his contract.OBJ is getting everything he ever wanted and the Browns get no meaningful cap relief based on what's been reported thus far. 
 

Correct.

12 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

Berry is getting 2 years removed from OBJ's contract and made it so $7.25 million would have to be eaten by a claiming team which means he'll likely going to go unclaimed.

Andrew Berry misplayed his hand likely thinking that he could excuse Odell and work out favorable contract changes such that the Browns don't have to incur the salary as OBJ's a vested veteran if he goes unclaimed.

Negotiations didn't go well given what's been reported. It makes zero sense if the Browns still have to pay $7.25 million and OBJ becomes of de facto free agent at season's end. I'm not getting what exactly the Browns are doing except being altruistic and hoping that doing well by OBJ shows to players that Andrew Berry is a GM of good will.

Once OBJ waited until the deadline to nuke this thing, he had no other options, which was kind of the plan.  I’m fairly certain our Ivy League FO was aware they couldn’t suspend him with pay if half of this board did.

It does seem like Berry is doing his part to make things favorable for OBJ, which I’m sure is to help how theyre viewed by players. Petty and vindictive is a bad look for a FO and they know it.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 hours ago, NateDawg said:

I don’t think a bad team like Detroit even makes sense. OBJ was a malcontent in Cleveland. Why would he be a plus-factor somewhere, thrown in the middle of things, on a wasted year? 
 

I don’t think he’s nearly as concerned about winning as he’s claimed to be. He apparently asked to be traded over the offseason, which would have been immediately after we made the playoffs, won a game, had a QB playing lights out, the coach of the year and FO that is generally well regarded.

I think he’d be perfectly fine going anywhere for the rest of the season if it means he’s gonna get 10+ targets every week.  He wants to show everyone how good he is and hit FA.

I personally expect him to be in LA.  Not because he’s super concerned about a ring, but because he wants to be in LA.

 

[Dawgpoun8017]

51 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don’t think he’s nearly as concerned about winning as he’s claimed to be. He apparently asked to be traded over the offseason, which would have been immediately after we made the playoffs, won a game, had a QB playing lights out, the coach of the year and FO that is generally well regarded.

I think he’d be perfectly fine going anywhere for the rest of the season if it means he’s gonna get 10+ targets every week.  He wants to show everyone how good he is and hit FA.

I personally expect him to be in LA.  Not because he’s super concerned about a ring, but because he wants to be in LA.

 

He’s always been more about getting his stats and his money, he’s your classic narcissist 

[mtmmike]

52 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don’t think he’s nearly as concerned about winning as he’s claimed to be. He apparently asked to be traded over the offseason, which would have been immediately after we made the playoffs, won a game, had a QB playing lights out, the coach of the year and FO that is generally well regarded.

I think he’d be perfectly fine going anywhere for the rest of the season if it means he’s gonna get 10+ targets every week.  He wants to show everyone how good he is and hit FA.

I personally expect him to be in LA.  Not because he’s super concerned about a ring, but because he wants to be in LA.

 

This buds for you.

Good analysis 

How much due you think he gets paid at the end of the year 

Considering Brown only got the veteran minimum.