OBJ Thread

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

37 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I still love you all, but we are talking about a guy who has played 50+ games and still is producing at a middling level. I'm not saying that Baker is bad; I'm saying that he's average.

Just curious, but what was Drew Brees doing at this lint in his career? Steve Young?
 

Now, I’m not saying he’s gonna be those guys, but I think it’s crazy to say that a year 4 QB with a torn labrum hasn’t reached his absolute peak.

37 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

If you guys want to believe it's due to a lack of weapons, poor OL play in the OT spots, etc., then that's fine  to a point.  Goodness knows I'm not an OBJ apologist, but Baker absolutely missed him on back to back downs (3rd and 4th) because he couldn't read an overload blitz and hit him on a slant and then on a crossing route over the middle (and took a sack).

Agreed, he definitely has missed open dudes.  I will say that particular open dude has been given plenty of chances to do something positive and rarely does in key moments.

37 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Baker's issues are far beyond a lack of weapons. He still can't read a blitz, really struggles under pressure (as in, almost last in the NFL in this area), and makes too many "radio ball" throws. I'm not expecting him to be "great" under pressure, but he's TERRIBLE under pressure, mostly due to lack of recognition on where pressure is coming from and where he needs to go presnap.

  Just curious, but what were his numbers last year against the blitz/pressure?  I legit don’t know.

[MWil23]

32 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Just curious, but what was Drew Brees doing at this lint in his career? Steve Young?
 

Now, I’m not saying he’s gonna be those guys, but I think it’s crazy to say that a year 4 QB with a torn labrum hasn’t reached his absolute peak.

You could absolutely be right, but I'd argue that those guys are outliers and not the norm as well. I think we are "stuck" with Baker for another year or two anyway, so I'm not worried about letting go of him too soon. That said, if we don't see MAJOR improvement over the next two years, I think we can all agree that 5 years is plenty of time to evaluate a guy at that level.

32 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Agreed, he definitely has missed open dudes.  

I know that some are going to argue "pressure", but yesterday Kyler knew on 3 separate 3rd downs where to go based upon the pressure that we brought. Baker legitimately isn't seeing this, and I'm not even talking about disguised scheme zone blitz looks. I'm talking Cover 0 here with major overload blitzes.

32 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I will say that particular open dude has been given plenty of chances to do something positive and rarely does in key moments.

No question. OBJ can go.

32 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

  Just curious, but what were his numbers last year against the blitz/pressure?  I legit don’t know.

Worth a read:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10/baker-mayfield-is-getting-worse-under-pressure-and-its-not-a-new-trend.html

Baker Mayfield Under Pressure	Completion %	PFF passing grade
2018	51.7	58.8
2019	45.5	61.5
2020	43.7	40.9
2021	33.3	39.8

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

21 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

You could absolutely be right, but I'd argue that those guys are outliers and not the norm as well. I think we are "stuck" with Baker for another year or two anyway, so I'm not worried about letting go of him too soon. That said, if we don't see MAJOR improvement over the next two years, I think we can all agree that 5 years is plenty of time to evaluate a guy at that level.

Yeah would expect 5-6 years.  I think that’s what a reasonable organization would give someone they invested a number one overall pick in who’s had some great stretches and some iffy ones.

Quote

I know that some are going to argue "pressure", but yesterday Kyler knew on 3 separate 3rd downs where to go based upon the pressure that we brought. Baker legitimately isn't seeing this, and I'm not even talking about disguised scheme zone blitz looks. I'm talking Cover 0 here with major overload blitzes.

yeah, he needs to get that sorted out for sure.

Quote

No question. OBJ can go.

Worth a read:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10/baker-mayfield-is-getting-worse-under-pressure-and-its-not-a-new-trend.html

Baker Mayfield Under Pressure	Completion %	PFF passing grade
2018	51.7	58.8
2019	45.5	61.5
2020	43.7	40.9
2021	33.3	39.8

[MWil23]

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah would expect 5-6 years.  I think that’s what a reasonable organization would give someone they invested a number one overall pick in who’s had some great stretches and some iffy ones.

Especially given that, in my opinion, if we get 2020 and 2021 Baker, he's pretty much an average starter. He's not Jamarcus Russell here or anything.

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

yeah, he needs to get that sorted out for sure.

Guys like Lamar, Kyler, young Russell Wilson, and even Justin Herbert/ Mahomes to a degree, are such good athletes that they can buy themselves more time, automatically get different looks because defenses have to literally scheme around their athleticism, that they don't even always need to process things "the same", whereas Peyton, Brady, Brees, Stafford, etc. really have to be elite with ball placement and reading pressure presnap. Baker is still trying to be that "college athlete" doing it like he's in the Big XII. He's got to get A LOT better, because those numbers are even worse than they were as a rookie, and that's my biggest concern...and it's a BIG ONE.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Anyway, I feel like after last night it’s pretty clear we need to make a change or two with our receivers and how we’re using them.

“OBJ is getting open every play”.  Cool.  He gets more opportunities than anyone else and does nothing with them week after week.  If people were basing their opinions off his actual production and not the name on the back of the jersey, half of this forum would be clamoring for him to be cut. He needs less snaps and targets.

Juice is a stud.  Dependable, makes tough catches, comes up in big moments.  I hope he can get healthy.

Schwartz.  He’s a fast dude who’s not good at playing receiver.  I get why he’s in, but just use him as a decoy or something because he’s not good. He’s got a lot of work to do to live up to that draft spot.

DPJ.  Turning into a stud muffin. He and Jarvis are the clear starters imo.

Higgins. This dude must sleep with every coach’s wife or something, he constantly produces and gets no love. 

Felton. Used more as a back last night for obvious reasons, but I’d like to see them get him involved more.

 

Overall I think they need to cut Schwartz and OBJ’s snaps and give more to Felton and Higgins.  DPJ and Juice are clearly the starters, Higgins and OBJ the following two options, followed by Felton and then Schwartz.

[DawgX]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Anyway, I feel like after last night it’s pretty clear we need to make a change or two with our receivers and how we’re using them.

“OBJ is getting open every play”.  Cool.  He gets more opportunities than anyone else and does nothing with them week after week.  If people were basing their opinions off his actual production and not the name on the back of the jersey, half of this forum would be clamoring for him to be cut. He needs less snaps and targets.

Juice is a stud.  Dependable, makes tough catches, comes up in big moments.  I hope he can get healthy.

Schwartz.  He’s a fast dude who’s not good at playing receiver.  I get why he’s in, but just use him as a decoy or something because he’s not good. He’s got a lot of work to do to live up to that draft spot.

DPJ.  Turning into a stud muffin. He and Jarvis are the clear starters imo.

Higgins. This dude must sleep with every coach’s wife or something, he constantly produces and gets no love. 

Felton. Used more as a back last night for obvious reasons, but I’d like to see them get him involved more.

 

Overall I think they need to cut Schwartz and OBJ’s snaps and give more to Felton and Higgins.  DPJ and Juice are clearly the starters, Higgins and OBJ the following two options, followed by Felton and then Schwartz.

I'd keep giving Schwartz chances. Not saying we should force feed him, but if he's open we should throw him the ball. Dude is still young and raw and needs as much experience as he can get.

Agreed with the rest. Wish we would have gotten rid of OBJ last offseason, but oh well. The experiment hasn't worked out and it's time to move on.

Think there's a good chance we'll draft a receiver early in the draft.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Anyway, I feel like after last night it’s pretty clear we need to make a change or two with our receivers and how we’re using them.

“OBJ is getting open every play”.  Cool.  He gets more opportunities than anyone else and does nothing with them week after week.  If people were basing their opinions off his actual production and not the name on the back of the jersey, half of this forum would be clamoring for him to be cut. He needs less snaps and targets.

Juice is a stud.  Dependable, makes tough catches, comes up in big moments.  I hope he can get healthy.

Schwartz.  He’s a fast dude who’s not good at playing receiver.  I get why he’s in, but just use him as a decoy or something because he’s not good. He’s got a lot of work to do to live up to that draft spot.

DPJ.  Turning into a stud muffin. He and Jarvis are the clear starters imo.

Higgins. This dude must sleep with every coach’s wife or something, he constantly produces and gets no love. 

Felton. Used more as a back last night for obvious reasons, but I’d like to see them get him involved more.

 

Overall I think they need to cut Schwartz and OBJ’s snaps and give more to Felton and Higgins.  DPJ and Juice are clearly the starters, Higgins and OBJ the following two options, followed by Felton and then Schwartz.

I agree. Although where we are right now I may put Felton ahead of OBJ as far as who should see more targets. OBJ seems to have lost his confidence in catching the ball, on the wide open catch he made he basically cradled the ball and dropped with the ball to keep it at eye level, showing that he isn't trusting his hands right now.

First and foremost we need to get healthy at the position. Schwartz is probably a bust as I see very little potential for him other than running fast and that just isn't enough in the NFL. Hope I'm wrong.

[MWil23]

It really sucks that we lost DPJ last night, because he's been coming on as of late. I'd like to see more Landry and DPJ personnel packages, with Hooper and Njoku as double tight, and when we don't do that, bringing Higgins in as the 3rd guy with Schwartz as a burner if we have to go spread going forward in 2022.

OBJ is a cut or trade in the off-season, and a stud WR may be in order via free agency and/or the draft.

[Dawgpoun8017]

Of we go the FA route I would like to focus on courtland Sutton and Michael Gallup

[DaWg_LB.]

The Big Kid from Arkansas in round 1........see if Landry will take a pay cut...I love him, but 16M next year is a bit much.....let the youngsters develop DPJ and Schwartz.....and then go back and grab another talent on day 3 to have in the "Hopper" for Chad Oshea to develop (I like the kid from South Alabama- Tolbert, the kid from Nothern Iowa -Weston, and a kid I really like from Idaho State - Tanner Conner)

Have a receving Corps next year like

X- DPJ

Y- Landry

Slot- Schwartz

4th- Higgins

5th- Tolbert

(and resign Njoku so we return the same TE corps)

[mtmmike]

On 10/18/2021 at 8:40 AM, MWil23 said:

Especially given that, in my opinion, if we get 2020 and 2021 Baker, he's pretty much an average starter. He's not Jamarcus Russell here or anything.

Guys like Lamar, Kyler, young Russell Wilson, and even Justin Herbert/ Mahomes to a degree, are such good athletes that they can buy themselves more time, automatically get different looks because defenses have to literally scheme around their athleticism, that they don't even always need to process things "the same", whereas Peyton, Brady, Brees, Stafford, etc. really have to be elite with ball placement and reading pressure presnap. Baker is still trying to be that "college athlete" doing it like he's in the Big XII. He's got to get A LOT better, because those numbers are even worse than they were as a rookie, and that's my biggest concern...and it's a BIG ONE.

Sorry to disagree

What qb put 40 on both Pittsburgh and Baltimore in 1 year.

Pressure 90 percent of that statistic is from the first Baltimore game how many qbs have great game when they get hit at 

.5 seconds

 

[NudeTayne]

So long, mwil. We hardly knew ya'.

[MWil23]

24 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

Sorry to disagree

What qb put 40 on both Pittsburgh and Baltimore in 1 year.

Pressure 90 percent of that statistic is from the first Baltimore game how many qbs have great game when they get hit at 

.5 seconds

 

21 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

So long, mwil. We hardly knew ya'.

[mtmmike]

11 minutes ago, MWil23 said: