OBJ Thread

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, BrownsDog23 said:

 

The pass can be high and late and still be catchable.  The first two and the third are not mutually exclusive.  This throw was all 3.

 

Like at some point professional receivers need to make a play and not just wait for the perfectly timed pass to hit them square in the hands at chest height.

This is what the opposing QB had as far as help yesterday, courtesy of a 3rd string rookie TE

 

[BrownsDog23]

18 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The pass can be high and late and still be catchable.  The first two and the third are not mutually exclusive.  This throw was all 3.

 

Like at some point professional receivers need to make a play and not just wait for the perfectly timed pass to hit them square in the hands at chest height.

This is what the opposing QB had as far as help yesterday, courtesy of a 3rd string rookie TE

 

🤦‍♂️ The ball placement was damn near perfect there

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, BrownsDog23 said:

🤦‍♂️ The ball placement was damn near perfect there

Bless your heart if you think I was talking about the ball placement, but it was literally a 50/50 ball.  He was blanketed and gave his receiver a chance to make a play.  And he did.

He had a defender smothering him, arm between his chest and the ball that forced a bobble that he one handed and then had the presence of mind to get both feet in while maintaining possession.

You’ve been consistent enough for me to know if this same play happened between Baker and OBJ, and OBJ didn’t make the play, there would be ball placement issues, “he forced it”, he was covered, etc.  

[Empire Lies]

Eye in the sky never lies ... Video of Endzone view in the quoted thread below tells the whole story ... expand the quoted thread for details. Derp on ye charlatans.

29 minutes ago, Empire Lies said:

All things considered Baker did enough to give the Browns a chance to win the game, but there's reality and false perception when it comes to Baker's play versus OBJ or anyone else.

WRs had too many drops. OLine played poorly, but for goodness sake, each week just look at it the All22 endzone and sideline views. Look how high and behind and late that ball is from Baker's double hitch.

Gameday impression/tv copy leads to false assumptions in both the positive AND negative direction for numerous plays and player performance.

The truth is in the ALL22. The eye in the sky doesn't lie.

Disagreement on this board/forum is fueled by the fact that people literally are not seeing the same things when considering the TV copy/announcer frames of plays VS the All22 review to better understand the various factors effecting positive or negative play outcomes.

It's literally a completely different picture of things that people have in their mind.

 

 

Honestly, on this forum there's the biggest difference of opinion between people that watch the ALL22 review of the game a few times (hardly anyone on here) that have the benefit of comparing how that lens on the game relates to the first impression of game outcomes via the tv copy.

For most fans, there's the reactionary opinion formed live on the tv copy and people then are unwilling to adjust their opinion either way based on the evidence the all22 provides.

Often one thinks the QB is to blame on a tv copy but the all22 shows a more complex picture and/or the opposite.

Same is true for WR issues.

So much stood out from the All22 this week as it does every week. A lot of Baker's misses this week were due to him anticipating pressures that didn't manifest and his need to hitch extra times or pat the ball more to get more on the throws due to shoulder injury body mechanics. 

There's so many open plays. Mutliple errors by oline, wr route, baker missed throw/read. 

 

" I don't get why the Diva OBJ tried to one hand catch that. Trade him. He was scared of contact"

 

Shoulder injury and all he's extending as far as possible for it. A WR can't go get that behind, high and late with two hands that's why high throws are attempted to be one handed because of the extra reach biomechanically the human body gets from reaching up with one hand versus two.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Empire Lies

[BrownsDog23]

 

[Empire Lies]

7 minutes ago, BrownsDog23 said:

 

 

And it's a non-derpian actual All22 Review ...

** That's not a comprehensive of the plays this years that I've seen myself via all22 and importantly not all misses are on Baker exclusively as issues are multiply determined (i.e., on OLine, assuming difference reads, etc). **

 

What we in the non-derpian all22 community have been seeing it not only for weeks but years while the boxscore tv copy enthusiasts shout us down ..

seriously though ... all jokes aside ... what fans miss is that coaches and players see all of it when they review the tape ... they know what's going on .. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Empire Lies

[candyman93]

 

[Thomas5737]

2 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

Eye in the sky never lies ... Video of Endzone view in the quoted thread below tells the whole story ... expand the quoted thread for details. Derp on ye charlatans.

 

" I don't get why the Diva OBJ tried to one hand catch that. Trade him. He was scared of contact"

 

Shoulder injury and all he's extending as far as possible for it. A WR can't go get that behind, high and late with two hands that's why high throws are attempted to be one handed because of the extra reach biomechanically the human body gets from reaching up with one hand versus two.

Maybe track the ball? He ran 15 yards (from the 20 to inside the 10 at an angle) why wouldn't you adjust? Makes no sense to me.

[BrownsDog23]

 

[JDD]

2 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

Eye in the sky never lies ... Video of Endzone view in the quoted thread below tells the whole story ... expand the quoted thread for details. Derp on ye charlatans.

 

" I don't get why the Diva OBJ tried to one hand catch that. Trade him. He was scared of contact"

 

Shoulder injury and all he's extending as far as possible for it. A WR can't go get that behind, high and late with two hands that's why high throws are attempted to be one handed because of the extra reach biomechanically the human body gets from reaching up with one hand versus two.

Is he expecting OBJ to be adjusting the route more towards the right (from bakers view) when it’s a 2 deep look? Just wondering since he threw it in a spot that would protect him from the safety??

[Kiwibrown]

Baker got lit to throw it, OBJ didnt get lit to catch it. 

Baker has stones, OBJ is a ***** 

The only excuse OBJ has is his shoulder is too weak to catch the ball, if that is the case then he shouldnt be on the field. 

Passer rating when target for DPJ isnt it like 158.3? the problem is, was and always will be OBJ. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Kiwibrown

[Empire Lies]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Maybe track the ball? He ran 15 yards (from the 20 to inside the 10 at an angle) why wouldn't you adjust? Makes no sense to me.

Honestly, I'm really curious b/c it's clear that we don't even begin to see basics of football, position responsibilities, or coaches/all22 film the similarly.

What exactly does your mind see based on what you understand about football when you play this all22 clip a few times?

 

This is a snapshot of Baker at his first hitch where he was initially loaded to throw. There's nothing to route adjust and the referee is the only issue. No pressure in Baker lap or face causing him to reset off platform or hitch to find a window. Nothing. The LBs hips are facing Baker and isn't remotely a problem. Clear sightline throwing lane (Baker sees it but doesn't trust his eyes), clear throw, clear leverage. Without a 2nd hitch Baker could doesn't need a perfect throw at all.

 

On second hitch look at how the defense, route, and spacing develops. 

It's not about placing the loss at Baker's feet or some need to counteract people's bias against Baker, but I just don't get how a person can go back and watch the all22 and say "OBJ should've adjusted as the takeaway." There's nothing football-wise where that would be the coaching point for anyone involved and I highly doubt Baker would even say so.

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49 minutes ago, JDD said:

Is he expecting OBJ to be adjusting the route more towards the right (from bakers view) when it’s a 2 deep look? Just wondering since he threw it in a spot that would protect him from the safety??

I get what you might be suggesting, but that look against that coverage doesn't dictate any real route adjustment. OBJ did adjust his route by slow stepping and pacing the route because Baker had yet to release the ball.

The ball being behind some to protect the WR is good, but a late, high, and behind ball is an entirely different thing. Late and high is a hospital ball.

If you look at the all22 clip, it's about Baker double hitching and putting the ball high more so than the ball being behind. I get the injury may require a double pat for a comfort in the ball placement but if a coach and even Baker are evaluating that play the coaching point is that there's no reason to double hitch as there's no confusion pre/post snap as OBJ is running free. See it. Rip it. It's not the easiest of throws to get over the LB but there's plenty of space to get that up and down. It sails on Baker

-------------------------

 

44 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Baker got lit to throw it, OBJ didnt get lit to catch it. 

Baker has stones, OBJ is a ***** 

The only excuse OBJ has is his shoulder is too weak to catch the ball, if that is the case then he shouldnt be on the field. 

Passer rating when target for DPJ isnt it like 158.3? the problem is, was and always will be OBJ. 

 

OBJ is tough as nails despite not fitting people's idyllic image of physical and mental toughness. Earlier in his career he had emotional control issues.

He's fought back from multiple ACL tears in his football life including other knee damage. He returned far ahead of schedule this year after another devastating knee injury because he put in the work.

He's played through double sports hernias, partially torn groins and quads, and high ankle sprains in his career as well as numerous other injuries.

He always gives effort and by all accounts is a quality teammate.

It's easy to sit on the couch and call people playing football against the best athletes on the planets soft.

He's had some bad drops and made some bad plays this year it's also true to say that he's run great route and been open and been missed tons of times as well.

If your evaluation of OBJ's play was based on the quality of his routes, getting open, blocking, and catching as represented by the all22 one would have a more nuanced opinion instead of "it's always OBJ's fault look at the passer rating with DPJ."

But this is not a place for film review and nuanced analysis. So, it is what it is.

You lot will always feel how you feel.... like true charlatans that have foresaken the light of all22 truth.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Empire Lies

[Thomas5737]

20 minutes ago, Empire Lies said:

Honestly, I'm really curious b/c it's clear that we don't even begin to see basics of football, position responsibilities, or coaches/all22 film the similarly.

What exactly does your mind see based on what you understand about football when you play this all22 clip a few times?

 

This is a snapshot of Baker at his first hitch where he was initially loaded to throw. There's nothing to route adjust and the referee is the only issue. No pressure in Baker lap or face causing him to reset off platform or hitch to find a window. Nothing. The LBs hips are facing Baker and isn't remotely a problem. Clear sightline throwing lane (Baker sees it but doesn't trust his eyes), clear throw, clear leverage. Without a 2nd hitch Baker could doesn't need a perfect throw at all.

 

On second hitch look at how the defense, route, and spacing develops. 

It's not about placing the loss at Baker's feet or some need to counteract people's bias against Baker, but I just don't get how a person can go back and watch the all22 and say "OBJ should've adjusted as the takeaway." There's nothing football-wise where that would be the coaching point for anyone involved and I highly doubt Baker would even say so.

------------------------

I get what you might be suggesting, but that look against that coverage doesn't dictate any real route adjustment. OBJ did adjust his route by slow stepping and pacing the route because Baker had yet to release the ball.

The ball being behind some to protect the WR is good, but a late, high, and behind ball is an entirely different thing. Late and high is a hospital ball.

If you look at the all22 clip, it's about Baker double hitching and putting the ball high more so than the ball being behind. I get the injury may require a double pat for a comfort in the ball placement but if a coach and even Baker are evaluating that play the coaching point is that there's no reason to double hitch as there's no confusion pre/post snap as OBJ is running free. See it. Rip it. It's not the easiest of throws to get over the LB but there's plenty of space to get that up and down. It sails on Baker

-------------------------

 

 

OBJ is tough as nails despite not fitting people's idyllic image of physical and mental toughness. Earlier in his career he had emotional control issues.

He's fought back from multiple ACL tears in his football life including other knee damage. He returned far ahead of schedule this year after another devastating knee injury because he put in the work.

He's played through double sports hernias, partially torn groins and quads, and high ankle sprains in his career as well as numerous other injuries.

He always gives effort and by all accounts is a quality teammate.

It's easy to sit on the couch and call people playing football against the best athletes on the planets soft.

He's had some bad drops and made some bad plays this year it's also true to say that he's run great route and been open and been missed tons of times as well.

If your evaluation of OBJ's play was based on the quality of his routes, getting open, blocking, and catching as represented by the all22 one would have a more nuanced opinion instead of "it's always OBJ's fault look at the passer rating with DPJ."

But this is not a place for film review and nuanced analysis. So, it is what it is.

You lot will always feel how you feel.... like true charlatans that have foresaken the light of all22 truth.

He took 7 steps... you adjust.

I didn't play receiver but one game that I did I ran a deep post from left to right and the ball was thrown to me but terribly behind me so much that I had to reroute, completely take my eye off of the ball and run back to my left and when I looked to find the ball it was right in front of me and I made the catch that sealed the game. It was mostly luck that when I turned my back to the play that I rerouted 100% correctly so that the ball fell in my lap. If it were zone it would have failed but it was single coverage man and my defender had no idea what was happening.

My teammates said that it was a magical play where I turned and the ball was there like me and the QB had some great connection. I said nothing. It was a terrible pass but I made an adjustment like that and I was not OBJ, at least not the young version lol.

I probably took that same 7 steps. Completely changing direction. OBJ wasn't asked to do that. Just trade the ball and adjust. Pretty simple. I can do it. He should have. It's throw the ball catch the ball, we don't need scientists.

[Empire Lies]

12 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

He took 7 steps... you adjust.

I didn't play receiver but one game that I did I ran a deep post from left to right and the ball was thrown to me but terribly behind me so much that I had to reroute, completely take my eye off of the ball and run back to my left and when I looked to find the ball it was right in front of me and I made the catch that sealed the game. It was mostly luck that when I turned my back to the play that I rerouted 100% correctly so that the ball fell in my lap. If it were zone it would have failed but it was single coverage man and my defender had no idea what was happening.

My teammates said that it was a magical play where I turned and the ball was there like me and the QB had some great connection. I said nothing. It was a terrible pass but I made an adjustment like that and I was not OBJ, at least not the young version lol.

I probably took that same 7 steps. Completely changing direction. OBJ wasn't asked to do that. Just trade the ball and adjust. Pretty simple. I can do it. He should have. It's throw the ball catch the ball, we don't need scientists.

 

 

At this point ... you charlatans have won ... 

It has zero to do with being scientists. It's about real football coaching points and real positional responsibilities.

We come from different football backgrounds and are on opposite sides of the galaxy when it comes to our football play analysis in terms of what should and shouldn't have been done on that play and others by various positions.

It is what it is. But it is representative of the disagreements people have on this forum and why I said people "literally aren't seeing the same things."

That simple plays like this have such clear distinct differing analysis really illustrates the difference in football perspective.

I also think it's simple. Baker double hitched with an added beat of delay. If he throws it when he first sees it and doesn't double hitch it's an easy layup. That he doesn't causes any veteran WR to start pacing their route and steps while waiting to see the balls trajectory as the catch space is tightening up. Baker sailed the ball and was late in such a way that I'm rather certain Baker Mayfield himself would state in team meetings that was the main factor in the miss connection and not some "OBJ didn't adjust or track the ball" thing you are suggesting. He did track it and went up full one arm extension to try to go get it. Timing was off and after he peaked the safety while exposed one arm extended.

Your "throw ball catch ball" oversimplification neither matches what I believe are basic football coaching points regarding what should be corrected on that play. I also don't even think Baker Mayfield would take your stance. OBJ's pacing steps were fine waiting on the ball nothing atypical or incorrect about that.

In my opinion, your high school football example has nothing to do with the real dynamics of the play in question.

------------

That is all

Mastermind character

[Thomas5737]

5 minutes ago, Empire Lies said:

I also don't even think Baker Mayfield would take your stance.

Of course not. I didn't even tell my teammates that I saw the ball in the air and rerouted only because of that. My stance on my play was that it worked and we won. I wouldn't want to take anything away from my teammate.