MrOaktown_56 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Forge said: Honestly, it's not Jimmy G that's a problem. He's 4th in the nfl in epa per play dating back to 2017, which is kind of insane given that he's basically just kind of meh as a starter. It's the games that are started by the other guys, Mullens / Hoyer / Beathard who are 33rd, 61st and 74th over that same time frame. They account for almost half the games Shanny has coached (Jimmy has started only 37 of Shanny's 72 games). If the point of Gayle's post is to make it seem like Shanahan isn't as good of an offensive mind as his rep credits him as, I'm not sure it actually does that given the talent he was working with. If he's using it to show that Shanahan just hasn't done a great job overall as coach, that's fair...but I don't think that was the intention. Why those guys was starting is a separate issue from whether or not Shanahan is actually a brilliant offensive mind, so that's not a valid criticism of Shanny the offensive mind, but rather a criticism of Shanahan the personnel guy. I was gonna say he takes after his mentor gruden in the personnel regard. Definitely as a coach his run plays are excellent and he can move the ball even with a mediocre starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Love that this thread got resurrected. Neither of these guys will be fired. The trade up for Lance last year was a pretty obvious sign they would have at least through 2022 barring utter, cataclysmic disaster the likes of which would be on par with an 0-16 season. I'd fire Lynch before Shanahan at this point if one of them has to go, although I don't believe Shanahan sniffs the top quarter of head coaches in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMT Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) On 11/8/2021 at 9:44 PM, MrOaktown_56 said: I think skill position wise it’s one of the better ones in the league for sure. Hmmm not too sure about that. They're at best 3rd place in their own division, and that's being generous as they could be 4th because the Seahawks have really good skill players too. By any mean it's not a bad group of skill players, but I would venture it's pretty average if you don't factor the o-line. But you're right that Jimmy G should do better and I wonder why they don't go with Lance even if he's not ready because it's not a bad situation to be in/learn from. Edited November 10, 2021 by MagicMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 23 minutes ago, MagicMT said: Hmmm not too sure about that. They're at best 3rd place in their own division, and that's being generous as they could be 4th because the Seahawks have really good skill players too. By any mean it's not a bad group of skill players, but I would venture it's pretty average if you don't factor the o-line. But you're right that Jimmy G should do better and I wonder why they don't go with Lance even if he's not ready because it's not a bad situation to be in/learn from. Jimmy has played well the last two weeks (highest rated starter according to PFF), that's one of the reasons Lance hasn't been inserted. This year the team's problems go way beyond QB. For instance against the Cardinals Jimmy had a pretty good game, but Kittle and Aiyuk fumbling on two separate drives in addition to the defense playing terrible were big factors contributing to the loss. Also, the 49ers just lost their right tackle for the season. Lance coming in, as maybe the most raw QB prospect ever taken so high, isn't going to flip a switch and make all of the 49ers issues go away, assuming he even plays better than Jimmy is currently in the first place. As nutty as it sounds, the 49ers are still in the playoff hunt, and Shanahan is still trying to get the team on track for a postseason push. In a couple of more weeks he'll probably start playing younger players once the team is mathematically exiled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 12 hours ago, Blue said: The trade up for Lance last year was a pretty obvious sign they would have at least through 2022 Yeah them mortgaging so much future draft capital on Lance does give them some leeway. Because if they're fired it leaves the next front office in a weird spot and they can also say the lack of success was due to Jimmy G's struggles but that when Lance is ready they'll turn it around. We've seen the 49ers do it going from Smith to Kap and the Chiefs going from Smith to Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/11/10/22773573/kyle-shanahan-san-francisco-49ers-conundrum?utm_campaign=theringer&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Forge said: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/11/10/22773573/kyle-shanahan-san-francisco-49ers-conundrum?utm_campaign=theringer&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter Has there ever really been a situation, outside of the Patriots who hit gold with Brady, where a coach had full control over personnel decisions and it worked out well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Has there ever really been a situation, outside of the Patriots who hit gold with Brady, where a coach had full control over personnel decisions and it worked out well? I feel like there have been snapshots of success, but nothing consistent or stable. Like, Mike Holmgren had full control in Seattle I'm pretty sure and they did go 13-3 and get to the super bowl in 2005 before getting progressively worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Forge said: I feel like there have been snapshots of success, but nothing consistent or stable. Like, Mike Holmgren had full control in Seattle I'm pretty sure and they did go 13-3 and get to the super bowl in 2005 before getting progressively worse. I mean you guys also went 13-3 and made the Super Bowl as well. I think the biggest issue with having a coach in charge of personnel decisions is that they're typically going to make win now moves. Usually by overpaying guys in free agency and mortgaging future draft capital either to trade for veterans or to move up for guys they deem to be potential stars that can contribute immediately. Which can work in the short term but typically leads to a lack in depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 They should be. They’ve been on this team 5 years and the team went backwards and they are looking at their 4th losing season out of 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49ersfan Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 16 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Jimmy has played well the last two weeks (highest rated starter according to PFF), that's one of the reasons Lance hasn't been inserted. This year the team's problems go way beyond QB. For instance against the Cardinals Jimmy had a pretty good game, but Kittle and Aiyuk fumbling on two separate drives in addition to the defense playing terrible were big factors contributing to the loss. Also, the 49ers just lost their right tackle for the season. Lance coming in, as maybe the most raw QB prospect ever taken so high, isn't going to flip a switch and make all of the 49ers issues go away, assuming he even plays better than Jimmy is currently in the first place. As nutty as it sounds, the 49ers are still in the playoff hunt, and Shanahan is still trying to get the team on track for a postseason push. In a couple of more weeks he'll probably start playing younger players once the team is mathematically exiled. Yeah, the turnovers are KILLING us. We're -9 in TO ratio which is tied for last in the league with the Chiefs & Jags (only the Jets are worse at -12) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 53 minutes ago, 49ersfan said: Yeah, the turnovers are KILLING us. We're -9 in TO ratio which is tied for last in the league with the Chiefs & Jags (only the Jets are worse at -12) its the same story that its been since like 2015. 2019 was the only year we protected the football and forced turnovers. other than that, weve been one of the worst in the league in that regard, on both sides of the ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 8 hours ago, NYRaider said: Has there ever really been a situation, outside of the Patriots who hit gold with Brady, where a coach had full control over personnel decisions and it worked out well? I think Bill Walsh was in full control until after the 1987 playoff loss where he was stripped of team presidency. Bill had won two rings by that point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Also, some people are sleeping on Deebo Samuel and it shows. He's taken his game to another level this year. What he does on screens is absurd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 my confidence would come from how they want to adress their short comings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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