Week 8 Overreactions: The "Mike White is the best QB in the NFL and it's not even close" Edition

[ET80]

6 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

I would assume MT is back for that game.

You're avoiding the question.

15 minutes ago, ET80 said:

So, why do you think the results will be the same with all of those differences? What about this makes it not as hard as this first game?

 

[MookieMonstah]

3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

You're avoiding the question.

 

I don't quite understand. Why do I think with those 3 players back the results will be the same?

Thomas is an elite weapon, the Saints currently have zero outside of Kamara. The Saints didn't allow Gronk to do anything prior to him leaving the game after reaggravating his injury. AB could certainly make a difference but the Saints will employ the same strategy they always do, which is to allow the underneath stuff and try to limit the big plays down the field. The Bucs also benefitted from a blown coverage, would hope the Saints don't repeat that mistake.

[tyler735]

17 minutes ago, ET80 said:

...this 11-5 season coming after said Patriots were a David Tyree catch away from going undefeated.

So, that was a pretty good team around him.

Sounds like good teams at times can make up for important individuals being out then? 

The inverse can be true as well. I think Taysom Hill is a garbage QB despite his 3-1 record as a starter. Using his record to define his importance seems silly to me.

I just don't get how you can argue Thomas isn't important. Who's to say we don't go further with a "healthy" Thomas last season? Thomas in 2019 was the first WR to win Offensive Player of the Year since Jerry Rice then hurt his ankle week 1 last year and hasn't recovered fully yet. There's no doubting the guys importance to the team. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by tyler735

[CP3MVP]

39 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

You're trying to turn this into something its not. I said thats not a guarantee, because its not. The Saints are a good team and now hold the tie breaker and have an easy remaining schedule outside of Buffalo, Dallas and Tampa Bay part 2. It's certainly not a guarantee the Bucs win the division.

I said Tampa isn’t going to have to win 3 straight road playoff games to get to a Super Bowl like last year. You took offense to that, the only way I can see that is if you don’t think Tampa is going to win the division. If they win the division they’ll have a home playoff game.

 

You said the Saints are the better team are better coached and have cited their record with Taysom the last 2 years but don’t want to come out and say they’ll win the division lol. 

[Magnifico]

Saints aren't winning the Division. They'll finish at least 3 games back, likely a crapton more, if the QB room is Hill, Simien and Book.

The Bucs aren't "garunteed" to win the division sure, but including QB they have the best roster in a division easily where they face that aforementioned Saints QB's, unless they mortgage their future in a trade, Sam Darnold or whatever other dud the Panthers trot out and the worn, weary shell of what's left of Matt Ryan.

In all likelihood, yesterday will be the high point of the Saints season. It sucks, because with Winston and MT returning they could have played a real spoiler, but of their remaining 10 games they'll go 5-5 at best, probably a lot worse.

A worst case scenario of having a Top 10/15 pick and being able to select an great talent isn't the worst thing for the Saints either. Not that I know what the QB's for next year look like.

[Jlowe22]

If you're gonna honest, Saints may have a better defense than the Bucs(maybe, the Bucs defense can turn on the jets when it matters, while Saints defense turns on the jets randomly), but the offense isnt close, with or without Jameis, and with or without Thomas.  The gap betqeen offenses is much larger than the gap between defenses.

Even before Jameis went down, Saints offense was pretty mediocre at best in terms of points per drive, and theres no reason to think thatll improve with Taysom or Trevor.

 

[ET80]

12 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

The inverse can be true as well. I think Taysom Hill is a garbage QB despite his 3-1 record as a starter. Using his record to define his importance seems silly to me.

Thank you - I'll buy this.

12 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I just don't get how you can argue Thomas isn't important. Who's to say we don't go further with a "healthy" Thomas last season?

It's possible, but WRs in general don't move the needle as much as other positions - you'd have to go 30+ years to find one that did, Rice. 

16 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Thomas in 2019 was the first WR to win Offensive Player of the Year since Jerry Rice then hurt his ankle week 1 last year and hasn't recovered fully yet. There's no doubting the guys importance to the team. 

So, a guy coming off a season ending injury that cost him close to 1.5 seasons is suddenly going to come in - with a new QB coming off of his own injury, no less - and pick up right where he left off?

Do you see how much of a stretch that is for a rational mind to take in? Not directly coming at you, but do you see why some of us have issues with taking this at face value?

[ET80]

15 minutes ago, Magnifico said:

Not that I know what the QB's for next year look like.

Not a good year, IMO.

[ronjon1990]

39 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

The Patriots once went 11-5 with Matt Cassel as their QB...In other words, using a teams record only to determine a single players importance seems far fetched.

It's not the only metric being used though. 

MT has barely played in 2 years, and when he played last year was only marginally effective.... against the Falcons' laughably porous defense. 

MT hasn't been an active "star player" making any sort of meaningful impact on the field since January 5 2020. 

To say his absence, after all of this time, is more significant than an active, producing player's absence is homerism at it's worst. That's basing everything on his production in 2019. Since then, the Saints haven't exactly suffered. 

Every team misses star players from their past. But for anyone to say MT's absence is more significant than someone who has actually been playing is absurd. It's like Lions fans saying that Calvin Johnson's impact was significant.....half way through the 2017 season. 

I guess that means the Colts missing Andrew Luck right now is more significant too? I bet the Dolphins sure do miss Marino in the 2021 season. What a huge loss for them. If only the Jets weren't missing Joe Namath right now, they'd be #1 in the AFC! His absence is absolutely resounding....in 2021. 

Nobody is saying MT doesn't have the potential to come back strong and be a game changer. But dude hasn't done anything in a long time. The Saints are a very different team as well. 

He could come back and have a huge impact on the field and open the Saints offense up to pure greatness, that's reasonable to be optimistic about. But to say his (now very prolonged) absence has a bigger impact on games being played in 2021 than people who have been producing in major ways just isn't rational. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by ronjon1990

[Deadpulse]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

@Deadpulse - I'll need you for sig duties once one of us loses. I'll ping you when we're there.

you got it

[tyler735]

Just now, ET80 said:

Thank you - I'll buy this.

It's possible, but WRs in general don't move the needle as much as other positions - you'd have to go 30+ years to find one that did, Rice. 

While I don't disagree when looking at overall positional importance, but I do think in terms of WR's importance amongst their WR peers Thomas ranks highly on that list especially given the Saints current dire WR situation.

Just now, ET80 said:

So, a guy coming off a season ending injury that cost him close to 1.5 seasons is suddenly going to come in - with a new QB coming off of his own injury, no less - and pick up right where he left off?

Do you see how much of a stretch that is for a rational mind to take in? Not directly coming at you, but do you see why some of us have issues with taking this at face value?

I would note Thomas stepped right in last year and still put up some decent games even with the aforementioned Hill throwing to him. Thomas clearly wasn't healthy, but gutted through some performances. Thomas's numbers have been consistently great whether it's Brees, Hill, or Bridgewater throwing to him.

Even if he has a dip in production, he's still going to undoubtedly be our best and most important WR this year when he comes back. I get that there's some question marks with him, but I just don't see an ankle injury holding him back on the field once he is cleared. Obviously there are frustrations with how this situation has played out with Saints fans and him waiting to get surgery, but this isn't some crazy knee injury or achilles injury. It seems it was just a poorly handles situation that should have only cost him about half a season that should have been taken care of right away after last season, but unfortunately wasn't. 

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

Turf fields are another one on the long list of reasons why we know the NFL doesn’t give a damn about player safety 

[MookieMonstah]

52 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

I said Tampa isn’t going to have to win 3 straight road playoff games to get to a Super Bowl like last year. You took offense to that, the only way I can see that is if you don’t think Tampa is going to win the division. If they win the division they’ll have a home playoff game.

 

You said the Saints are the better team are better coached and have cited their record with Taysom the last 2 years but don’t want to come out and say they’ll win the division lol. 

Because I never said they definitively will. I said its not a guarantee the Bucs will. I'm not sure why you can't comprehend that, its real basic stuff.

[CP3MVP]

1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said:

Because I never said they definitively will. I said its not a guarantee the Bucs will. I'm not sure why you can't comprehend that, its real basic stuff.

Because you know they’re not gonna win, you just don’t want to admit it

 

”this team is better across the board with better coaching but I’m not saying their going to win the division” lol

Edited November 1, 2021 by CP3MVP

[sryan66611]

2 hours ago, ET80 said:

Thank you - I'll buy this.

It's possible, but WRs in general don't move the needle as much as other positions - you'd have to go 30+ years to find one that did, Rice. 

So, a guy coming off a season ending injury that cost him close to 1.5 seasons is suddenly going to come in - with a new QB coming off of his own injury, no less - and pick up right where he left off?

Do you see how much of a stretch that is for a rational mind to take in? Not directly coming at you, but do you see why some of us have issues with taking this at face value?

No use dude is a super homer and rational does not exist.

 

Saints don't have a QB I think their best bet is to find out what they are going to do next season in that regard because this one isn't going very far.  Some of their guys are getting older in defense like Cam Jordan who isn't the guy he once was a few years ago.  I guess Saints may believe Jameis is that guy I'm not really sure.