Rumour: Giants looking to trade WR Kadarius Toney

[BayRaider]

2 hours ago, PatriotsWin! said:

Wouldn't mind the Pats sending a 4th rounder for him. We could use his speed.

He’s more very quick/agile than fast/speed. There’s a difference. Even every scouting report he has says super quick but not a speedy player. He’s not a deep threat. And no, I could care less about Pro Day 40’s, they are literally useless. Take 0.10 to 0.15 off of a Pro Day 40 and you have their real time. Toney has very good quickness, but straight line speed he’s a 4.5 guy. 

[TheKillerNacho]

46 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

He’s more very quick/agile than fast/speed. There’s a difference. Even every scouting report he has says super quick but not a speedy player. He’s not a deep threat. And no, I could care less about Pro Day 40’s, they are literally useless. Take 0.10 to 0.15 off of a Pro Day 40 and you have their real time. Toney has very good quickness, but straight line speed he’s a 4.5 guy. 

Fwiw, while you're right that a Pro Day 40 tends to be a bit faster, the difference is closer to 0.05, and part of that difference is because Pro Days are typically after the Combine, and thus, players who posted disappointing 40 times usually put higher emphasis on training to improve their score on their Pro Day.

Now, I'd definitely agree there's a substantial difference between straight-line, no-pads speed and playing speed, and there's a lot of players who play faster than their 40 times would indicate (and even more that, conversely, play slower). However, that's more of an issue with the metric itself that has to be taken into consideration rather than whether it came from a Pro Day or from the Combine.

As for Toney specifically, I haven't watched enough of him to say one way or the other.

[BayRaider]

4 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Fwiw, while you're right that a Pro Day 40 tends to be a bit faster, the difference is closer to 0.05, and part of that difference is because Pro Days are typically after the Combine, and thus, players who posted disappointing 40 times usually put higher emphasis on training to improve their score on their Pro Day.

Fully disagree, the average different is definitely much higher than 0.05. This is because the Combine uses a fully automated process from start to finish. It has nothing to do with "training harder". And the year there wasn't a combine, everyone and their mama ran a 4.2 or 4.3. There is no way at all Toney is a Mid 4.4 guy watching his college tape and NFL tape. You might be able to argue 4.48-4.49 but I think he's a 4.50 - 4.53 straight line speed guy. 

Being a burner isn't his game though so there isn't much point in arguing over this. I just found it completely inaccurate someone said they wanted Toney because of his "speed" when he's not a speed guy. He's a quick/elusive guy who is a good route runner. 

[TheKillerNacho]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Fully disagree, the average different is definitely much higher than 0.05. This is because the Combine uses a fully automated process from start to finish.

I mean, the link I gave you contains the relevant data, analyzing results of the last 10 years. You can choose to ignore it if you wish but that doesn't change it.

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It has nothing to do with "training harder".

Why do you quote something I didn't say? I said they put a larger emphasis on speed training. Granted, that's more of an argument against using the Pro Day number, as any improvement will likely be lost as the player returns to their normal training regimen.

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And the year there wasn't a combine, everyone and their mama ran a 4.2 or 4.3.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say regarding this. That universities were more lax with their Pro Day timing knowing there wasn't a combine to compare the number to? There's no way to disprove this and it's entirely possible certain institutions did, but it sounds more like a weird conspiracy theory to me.

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There is no way at all Toney is a Mid 4.4 guy watching his college tape and NFL tape. You might be able to argue 4.48-4.49 but I think he's a 4.50 - 4.53 straight line speed guy. 

Being a burner isn't his game though so there isn't much point in arguing over this. I just found it completely inaccurate someone said they wanted Toney because of his "speed" when he's not a speed guy. He's a quick/elusive guy who is a good route runner. 

I wasn't posting anything specifically about Toney at all, and said as much at the end of my post. I trust you are being truthful with your assessment of his playing skillset. Personally, I don't doubt he ran what he ran at his Pro Day other than tacking on the usual difference, but again, I don't put much stock in the 40 time as others as it's a pretty unreliable indicator about how fast a player actually plays.

[ILoveTheVikings]

LOL

 

What did this guy do to make the Giants try and trade him after 1 year?

[Soko]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Fully disagree, the average different is definitely much higher than 0.05.

The data was posted saying otherwise lol

[Deadpulse]

7 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Fully disagree, the average different is definitely much higher than 0.05.

love this. FULLY disagree despite irrefutable numbers/facts

classic 

[BayRaider]

3 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

love this. FULLY disagree despite irrefutable numbers/facts

classic 

Actually the data doesn’t apply to the non-combine year due to very lax rules and recordings due to the pandemic. Almost every single skill position ran between 0.10 to 0.15 faster than their projected 40 time. Pro Days have largely been inaccurate but the non-combine year was the grand daddy. 

[Deadpulse]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Actually the data doesn’t apply to the non-combine year due to very lax rules and recordings due to the pandemic. Almost every single skill position ran between 0.10 to 0.15 faster than their projected 40 time. Pro Days have largely been inaccurate but the non-combine year was the grand daddy. 

Oh excuse me, I forgot about your best friend cherry picking 1 year out of 10 years of data. But WAIT, can you believe it.....

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The data we started with for this analysis is the 648 RBs/WRs/TEs that have been drafted between 2010-2019, 10 years of data.

OMG THE BODY BLOW

that set of data you got your nethers in a twist about wasn't even included! Just further proving you didn't actually take the time to read and are just talking out your butt. 

[VigilantZombie]

13 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Fully disagree, the average different is definitely much higher than 0.05. This is because the Combine uses a fully automated process from start to finish. It has nothing to do with "training harder". And the year there wasn't a combine, everyone and their mama ran a 4.2 or 4.3. There is no way at all Toney is a Mid 4.4 guy watching his college tape and NFL tape. You might be able to argue 4.48-4.49 but I think he's a 4.50 - 4.53 straight line speed guy. 

Being a burner isn't his game though so there isn't much point in arguing over this. I just found it completely inaccurate someone said they wanted Toney because of his "speed" when he's not a speed guy. He's a quick/elusive guy who is a good route runner. 

First of all, you're wrong.

Secondly EVERYONE that runs at the combine is slower with full gear on. How much slower varies but it's virtually impossible to not be slower. Also, let's stop pretending like 4.48 isn't still really damn fast. Idk about you, but I can't run anywhere close to a 4.48. 

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

Oh excuse me, I forgot about your best friend cherry picking 1 year out of 10 years of data. But WAIT, can you believe it.....

OMG THE BODY BLOW

that set of data you got your nethers in a twist about wasn't even included! Just further proving you didn't actually take the time to read and are just talking out your butt. 

…NO NO NO DON’T DO IT!!!

MY GOD HE’S DEAD! HE’S DEAD! STOP THE DAMN MATCH!!!

[Dome]

9 minutes ago, ET80 said:

…NO NO NO DON’T DO IT!!!

MY GOD HE’S DEAD! HE’S DEAD! STOP THE DAMN MATCH!!!

[Slappy Mc]

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

[Xenos]