St Vince Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Definitely think you're on the lighter end of the spectrum. Zay Jones got $8M/year and his numbers are about the same with about 6 more GP. If his agent can't get him at least $8M/year, he needs to get a new agent. I don't think other teams value Lazard as we do. He's not fast, doesn't get consistent separation. He's more valuable to us because he has a role here. Great blocker and good possession catcher. I really don't think he moves the needle for other teams. I see him behind Watson and Doubs. I'm not paying 8 Mill for a number 3. Put him on a team like the Rams and you probably wouldn't know he was on the field. Edited December 5, 2022 by St Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, St Vince said: I don't think other teams value Lazard as we do. He's not fast, doesn't get consistent separation. He's more valuable to us because he has a role here. Great blocker and good possession catcher. I really don't think he moves the needle for other teams. I see him behind Watson and Doubs. I'm not paying 8 Mill for a number 3. Put him on a team like the Rams and you probably wouldn't know he was on the field. The same reason Green Bay values him is the same reason another team would value him. Go look at next year's FA WR class. It's a pretty uninspiring group of WRs to be ponying up for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Vince Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: The same reason Green Bay values him is the same reason another team would value him. Go look at next year's FA WR class. It's a pretty uninspiring group of WRs to be ponying up for. 3 years 21 Million is a fair deal for his production. If he wants more good luck wherever he goes. Like I said I'm not paying a #3 more than 7 Million. If he wants more it will have to include incentives. Watson has more TDs in 4 games than he has over 3 full seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, St Vince said: 3 years 21 Million is a fair deal for his production. If he wants more good luck wherever he goes. Like I said I'm not paying a #3 more than 7 Million. If he wants more it will have to include incentives. Watson has more TDs in 4 games than he has over 3 full seasons. And that's fine if you don't want to spend more than $7M/year on him. But don't be surprised when he turns that type of contract down and signs elsewhere for more money. He's consistently been a top 2 WR for Green Bay over the last 2 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 I don't really care if we keep Lazard or not. Good role guy, but you don't break the bank for him. If he wants to stay on a slightly lesser deal he'd get elsewhere, he's welcome on the team for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Lazard being back in GB for 2023 is interesting. Almost certain Watkins is gone, Cobb is a maybe if he wants to stay for a very modest deal. so Watson, Doubs, Toure, Lazard, Cobb + draft pick is not a bad thing. Lazard on a 3 year $25M total deal that has cap hits of $4M, $8M, $13M is reasonable. GB overall positional spending would still be very low with Watson, Doubs and Toure on rookie contracts for that duration. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Vince Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, squire12 said: Lazard being back in GB for 2023 is interesting. Almost certain Watkins is gone, Cobb is a maybe if he wants to stay for a very modest deal. so Watson, Doubs, Toure, Lazard, Cobb + draft pick is not a bad thing. Lazard on a 3 year $25M total deal that has cap hits of $4M, $8M, $13M is reasonable. GB overall positional spending would still be very low with Watson, Doubs and Toure on rookie contracts for that duration. I wouldn't mind bringing MVS back when he's cut. No way KC is paying that kind of money for that production next year. His in Watsons speed would really open up this offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, squire12 said: Lazard on a 3 year $25M total deal that has cap hits of $4M, $8M, $13M is reasonable. GB overall positional spending would still be very low with Watson, Doubs and Toure on rookie contracts for that duration. I think you're in the ballpark, but I don't think the Packers will be able to backload the deal that much. I think you're probably going to be closer to 6/8/10 than that. The Packers usually don't guarantee a whole lot outside of the signing bonus and Y1 salary, so even if you assume the largest possible signing bonus ($12M over 3 years), the Packers could save $2M simply by releasing him after next year with your cap hits. If you want a lower Y1 cap hit, than the Y2 and Y3 cap hits are probably going to be closer to even. I'd suspect the contract would look eerily similar to Zay Jones'. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/zay-jones-21778/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, St Vince said: I wouldn't mind bringing MVS back when he's cut. No way KC is paying that kind of money for that production next year. His in Watsons speed would really open up this offense. KC doesn't have many WR under contract for 2023.... Toney, Moore and MVS They do have some cap space ($28M). $11M cap charge is not that much and they can reduce it by a few million if they wanted to do so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 hour ago, St Vince said: I don't think other teams value Lazard as we do. He's not fast, doesn't get consistent separation. He's more valuable to us because he has a role here. Great blocker and good possession catcher. I really don't think he moves the needle for other teams. I see him behind Watson and Doubs. I'm not paying 8 Mill for a number 3. Put him on a team like the Rams and you probably wouldn't know he was on the field. Every OC of the Shannahan offense would LOVE to have Lazard in the slot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I think you're in the ballpark, but I don't think the Packers will be able to backload the deal that much. I think you're probably going to be closer to 6/8/10 than that. The Packers usually don't guarantee a whole lot outside of the signing bonus and Y1 salary, so even if you assume the largest possible signing bonus ($12M over 3 years), the Packers could save $2M simply by releasing him after next year with your cap hits. If you want a lower Y1 cap hit, than the Y2 and Y3 cap hits are probably going to be closer to even. I'd suspect the contract would look eerily similar to Zay Jones'. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/zay-jones-21778/ yeah. I think it might be better to start looking at the salaries in terms of % of the cap vs the raw dollars. With the cap going up, it is a bit of sticker shock to see a WR 2/3 making $7-10M, but on a overall salary cap of $225M, that is reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Vince Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 27 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Every OC of the Shannahan offense would LOVE to have Lazard in the slot. The debate is dollars. He's probably going to be behind Doubs and Watson next year. So now I'll ask you the same question, how much are you willing to pay a #3 WR? I'm not disagreeing he has a valuable role in this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, St Vince said: The debate is dollars. He's probably going to be behind Doubs and Watson next year. So now I'll ask you the same question, how much are you willing to pay a #3 WR? I'm not disagreeing he has a valuable role in this system. Citation needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Vince Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Citation needed Great way to avoid answering the question. Yes I stand by that prediction. Both Doubs and Watson have shown in the short time in this system that they're both big play receivers and will be even better next season, both will surpass Lazard. I agree Lazard has an important role. He's the best blocking WR we have but he often dissappears in games. Yes he had a great game today against the worst defense in the league. But that's not going to convince me to break the bank. He was on a milk carton against the Titans and Eagles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, St Vince said: Great way to avoid answering the question. Yes I stand by that prediction. Both Doubs and Watson have shown in the short time in this system that they're both big play receivers and will be even better next season, both will surpass Lazard. I agree Lazard has an important role. He's the best blocking WR we have but he often dissappears in games. Yes he had a great game today against the worst defense in the league. But that's not going to convince me to break the bank. He was on a milk carton against the Titans and Eagles. There's no point to answering a hypothetical question if we disagree on the fundamental supposition. There's no guarantee that Doubs is anything. Hell, there's no guarantee that Watson will be anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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