Week 3: Packers @ Tampa Bay Bucs - PG: Packers WIN 14-12, Move to 2-1!

[coachbuns]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

True.

But, in terms of max potential and this team.  We played pretty darned close to our max potential in this game.

You can't expect much more out of the passing game.  We knew running was going to be tough.  But, we didn't give up our run game.  And we didn't force the passing game.

We relied on the D, and even though Barry tried killing that on one drive, we held.  

Seriously dude, you thought that game was max potential for them?  LOL .. Hoping you didn't use that thought process meeting your wife/girlfriend!  

[PossibleCabbage]

It's pretty clear to me that looking at the last 3 seasons, Gute didn't see what happened and decided "we will build an offense that cannot be stopped" and instead saw "well, we were in several defensive struggles and lost close games, the solution is to build a better defense."

Since "we give up <20 points a game" is perhaps more sustainable than "we score>40 points per game."  People like offense, because it's fun, but nobody says "offense wins championships."

[coachbuns]

3 minutes ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

Well, having spent the rest of the day yesterday enjoying the win, I now have to still point out the bad here.  I'll still take an ugly 14-12 win over a pretty 31-28 loss, especially against Tom Brady considering this win could make a huge difference in playoff seeding by the end of this year.  But I still fear we may not win that last Superbowl for Rodgers because the Matt LaFleur is still failing in many regards as a head coach.

1.  The offense's problems after that Aaron Jones fumble, an ongoing problem that we saw as well after Mercedes Lewis fumbled it in the playoffs against SF last year.  And I could find other games where this has happened and LaFleur never has an answer to put the juice back in the offense.

2.  Building on that previous point, he's looking bad again with adjustments after opposing defensive coordinators make changes at the half and clamp down on him

3.  Compounding on the previous two, he still has yet to overcome a sizable deficit in a game for either a win or to send it into OT.  No, we didn't have to do that yesterday, but there's a good chance we'll find ourselves in some deficits out in Buffalo, Philly and Miami, and we're screwed in those games if he doesn't have answers.  Think the most we ever overcame under him was 14 points in Detroit back in 2019, but ... yeah it was the Lions and a badly injured team at that lol.

But that is a knock I got on him, and as much as Mike McCarthy had his own failures with play calling and adjustments and all that, particularly in the latter years, at least he had a few major comebacks in his time here.  LaFleur has yet to show he can do it against a major opponent.

It bugs me you have to point out the bad.  Thinking the coaches/staff can do that as well as you.  It was a hell of a win against a hell of a defense at their place in 100 degree heat but let's point out the bad.  MLF must suck .. MLF must suck.  LOL, what a bummer life to lead dwelling on negatives instead of positives after such an unexpected win. 

[Mazrimiv]

6 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

It bugs me you have to point out the bad.  Thinking the coaches/staff can do that as well as you.  It was a hell of a win against a hell of a defense at their place in 100 degree heat but let's point out the bad.  MLF must suck .. MLF must suck.  LOL, what a bummer life to lead dwelling on negatives instead of positives after such an unexpected win. 

It bugs me that you quote the stupidity I am trying to ignore.

[LLcheesehead12]

7 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

It bugs me you have to point out the bad.  Thinking the coaches/staff can do that as well as you.  It was a hell of a win against a hell of a defense at their place in 100 degree heat but let's point out the bad.  MLF must suck .. MLF must suck.  LOL, what a bummer life to lead dwelling on negatives instead of positives after such an unexpected win. 

Ridiculous and obviously ignored my first paragraph

Trust me I enjoyed the win all day yesterday, but it's Monday now and time to get back to the real world and yes, everything including the bad is on the discussion table here.

Interpret what I say about LaFleur how you will, I don't care, but every single bit of it is true so I stand by it.

[SpeightTheVillain]

1 hour ago, coachbuns said:

It bugs me you have to point out the bad.  Thinking the coaches/staff can do that as well as you.  It was a hell of a win against a hell of a defense at their place in 100 degree heat but let's point out the bad.  MLF must suck .. MLF must suck.  LOL, what a bummer life to lead dwelling on negatives instead of positives after such an unexpected win. 

The thing about MLF is his coaching style leads to a bunch of close games but whatever this board has to say about "turtling up," the facts are that he is extremely good at winning them - going 16 - 5 with GB over his career. 

 

This is mostly because the things that MLF excels at, aren't necessarily sexy - but are important in close games. The Packers have been in the top ten for least penalized team, least penalty yards, and net penalty yards per game since he took over as coach. They have also been in the top 5 for least turnovers. I can already hear people screaming "that's Rodgers," but they have also been in the top ten two out of three seasons for fumbles as well (11th in 2021). 

 

It may not be the way we want to watch the game - but MLF wins close games all the time. It is kinda his thing at this point. 

[vegas492]

3 hours ago, coachbuns said:

Seriously dude, you thought that game was max potential for them?  LOL .. Hoping you didn't use that thought process meeting your wife/girlfriend!  

Uh, they were going on the road, in the heat, to a team with a great defense.  Down two receivers who were either 2 of their top 4 or two of their top 3.  While not really having a starting 5 OL ready to go.

We shut down their run.  Neutralized a passing game.  And only a fumble really helped turn the tide back to neutral from totally being in the Packers favor.

Yah...this was about as good a game as we could have played.  

To be completely transparent....I really outkicked my coverage with my wife.  No doubt about it.

[vegas492]

3 hours ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

Ridiculous and obviously ignored my first paragraph

Trust me I enjoyed the win all day yesterday, but it's Monday now and time to get back to the real world and yes, everything including the bad is on the discussion table here.

Interpret what I say about LaFleur how you will, I don't care, but every single bit of it is true so I stand by it.

So....I get that you liked the win, you are just looking for what could have been corrected.

I'll stand by MLF on this one.

He did not abandon the run, even when it was being ineffective.  In my book, he kept Rodgers from forcing anything and from taking a beating.  To me, that was smart.  We had the lead and our defense was playing outstanding football.

Now, had he gone more aggressive?  One more turnover and that game could flip.  Another big hit and Rodgers and there goes the year.

It was winning football.  They all can't be pretty.  But dang, this one sure is satisfying.

[craig]

42 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Uh, they were going on the road, in the heat, to a team with a great defense.  Down two receivers who were either 2 of their top 4 or two of their top 3.  While not really having a starting 5 OL ready to go....

I fully agree with Coach, yesterday was not max-potential.  I love the win, and I like the possibilities moving forward.  The first half pretty much was full potential.  But scoring only 14 points on the game, getting shut out 2nd half, averaging 2.7 yards-per-run, and turning it over twice, that is NOT max potential. 

There is max-capacity for more.  Lots more, maybe? I look forward to seeing more of the max-capacity come out as the season progresses.  This is still a team that's just kinda figuring itself out.  There is a lot of development and improvement still ahead.  

[coachbuns]

8 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

It bugs me that you quote the stupidity I am trying to ignore.

Some things are so stupid I just can't help myself .. sorry .. LOL.

[vegas492]

20 hours ago, craig said:

I fully agree with Coach, yesterday was not max-potential.  I love the win, and I like the possibilities moving forward.  The first half pretty much was full potential.  But scoring only 14 points on the game, getting shut out 2nd half, averaging 2.7 yards-per-run, and turning it over twice, that is NOT max potential. 

There is max-capacity for more.  Lots more, maybe? I look forward to seeing more of the max-capacity come out as the season progresses.  This is still a team that's just kinda figuring itself out.  There is a lot of development and improvement still ahead.  

You forget who we were playing and where.

And did not enter in the variable about GB traveling for big games.

This ain't Madden.   

[craig]

I may be Madden unrealistic, Vegas!  :):). But yeah, I am optimistically and perhaps naively dreaming that when the Packers are playing at max-capacity, that they'll be able to get at least one score every half.  Even on the road against good defenses! 

I think the best is definitely still ahead; that Sunday wasn't the best this team can become; and that at max-capacity that they'll be better in future than they were on Sunday.  

I'm looking forward to the journey as the team evolves and that better-yet team emerges.  

[JaireAlex]

On 9/26/2022 at 10:34 AM, Packerraymond said:

That's the best defense in the NFL, with a top 5 coordinator. Their gameplay was to be aggressive, probably knew their offense couldn't score and wanted to setup some short fields for their O. They've tormented Rodgers before with fumbles and picks, this time no Davante or MVS, probably were more confident than ever.

Rodgers and LaFleur shredded them in the first half. I assume (haven't looked at the film) they went conservative and sat in 2 shell all 2nd half. If you can't run the ball with a defense in 2 shell, you're going to get your *** kicked. Especially when you have no vertical threat with speed that a defense needs to be concerned with. It was the exact same reason the Bucs didn't do a damn thing against our D. We sat in 2 shell, stopped the run, and had no vertical threat to worry about.

Indeed. This was a huge win. I was not hopeful, and was surprised how well the Oline played as well as the offense in the first half. A lot to like about this game. I thought it came down to "want to" which the Packers definitely showed in the first half. The Bucs are not as formidable on D as two years ago. Not sure they go far at all unless they can fix their Oline. But for the Pack to get even 14, which could have easily been higher, was a big win imo. And the refs did everything they could to get the Bucs back in the 4th quarter (ridiculous!!! -- from the non flag on the endzone punt, to Gary and Kenny getting mugged repeatedly, and a phantom hold on Lazard).

 

Offense is going to be a work in progress all season. If the Pack stays healthy, I expect Gute to add a piece or two to help in a Superbowl run. In the next two weeks would be nice to upgrade Newman with Tom or Nijman on the right side (and it really makes me wonder why Turner left). As far as receivers go, just look forward to the development of the rookies; I give us a 50% shot at Beckham for the playoff run since the Rams won't be running it back this year; that oline is in trouble.

 

 

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, craig said:

I may be Madden unrealistic, Vegas!  :):). But yeah, I am optimistically and perhaps naively dreaming that when the Packers are playing at max-capacity, that they'll be able to get at least one score every half.  Even on the road against good defenses! 

I think the best is definitely still ahead; that Sunday wasn't the best this team can become; and that at max-capacity that they'll be better in future than they were on Sunday.  

I'm looking forward to the journey as the team evolves and that better-yet team emerges.  

For our offense to have scored more against the Buccs, in that heat and in their place, they would have had to take more risks.

With that pass rush and our work in progress line, that line of thought was going to lead to either turnovers or an injured QB or both.

And really, there was no need in this game.

This was close to perfect for me, and for this game.  The fumble is the imperfection.  And it turned the tide back to neutral in the game.

Now...if we want more scoring?  Two things have to happen, outside of having a lesser opponent.  

1) The offensive line needs to gel and become a much better overall unit, run and pass blocking.  And that could realistically happen.

2) We need to acquire an offensive weapon.  Forget rookie development, that will be a constant.  What we need is another true WR threat.  Be it OBJ, Fuller...insert name of vet WR here.  Or, we need to trade for someone.  I'd throw Claypool out there as a name.  Sure he's a pain in the neck sometimes, but he's BIG, he's fast and he's physical.  And he's on a team that could be out of it soon, after drafting a WR in the second round and after paying one of their own WR's.

I guess that TE could even be another weapon.  Ours are probably league average or maybe even a tick under league average.

[craig]

Vegas, I appreciate your perspective, I think that we should be realistic, etc..  But I admit I don't fully agree that Tampa's defense is so completely impenetrable that going a half with no points should be considered max-capacity.  

We saw the first half:  They drove down not once, not twice, but three times.  *IF* the execution and play-calling is there, you can get first downs and score even against a defense as good as Tampa's.  I realize perfection doesn't happen often.  But man, during that first half, the offense was operating as close to perfection as I could imagine.  To to conclude that the 3-first-down-7-punt 2nd half was as good as you could hope for, I don't think so.  The first half had already demonstrated that *IF* the execution and decision-making was sharp, there were opportunites.  

The throw to Jones, it was an open throw and opportunity.  *IF* the throw isn't behind him, and if he isn't forced to stop, hop and spin and reach behind him, he's in.  That wasn't a max-capacity throw.  Rodgers just barely missed a 3rd TD.

2nd half, they got a quick 12 yard completion to Doubs.  But Lazard may an unnecessary block-in-the-back that turned it into an and-12.  The block was clearly in the back, it wasn't a max-capacity block.  And, it was pretty much useless anyway.  Lazard was probably already past that guy anyway, and if the guy got back in for a tackle, it would have been beyond the first down.  

Pass to Winfree, somebody goofed a route.  Didn't half to happen.  

Interception, some things happened there.  But had Rodgers held it and made a good throw, Dillon was running free on the left with nobody ahead of him except the intercepting safety who'd committed to the middle.  

Of course no game is perfect, even I know that!  But yeah, it wasn't all Tampa.  They were excellent, for sure.  But we had some execution and decision-making errors that factored.  We can, and I think will, get better.  

Next post about comments about how to get better or score more.