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Time to Fire LaFleur, Gute, and Murphy And Burn The House Down

LLcheesehead12

By LLcheesehead12
in Green Bay Packers

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Jaire_Island

Jaire_Island

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Gypsy1027 said:

I can't agree more with you when you point out "We are in a tough spot with Jenkins." What bugs me about all the talk about our o-line problems (Zach Tom too light in the pants, Newman can't figure out a stunt...) is so much of this discussion overlooks a huge right guard who should be starting by now and is doing nothing. Yes, Sean Rhyan, I am looking at you! Is this guy gonna be another wasted pick? 

Rhyan is a prospect who is just 21.

I remember Gutey saying he need time to develop. 

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vegas492

vegas492

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Calle a Gute defender, but I really like the early returns on Toure and Doubs. I also like Watsons talent but man is he snakebit.

If at least 2 of those 3 keep progressing, GB may not really need WR help.

 

 

I like them as well.  Even Watson.  But, that room still needs a veteran #1, regardless of development.  It's going to be 3+ years before we see the best out of any of those guys.

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MrBobGray

MrBobGray

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I'd like to point out just a touch of perspective here.

  • The Packers 5 losses have come against teams with a combined 27-11 record.  Of the 5 losses, only one was a home game (London is pretty clearly an away game for both teams).
  • They haven't given up a 30 point game on defense yet. 
  • They haven't allowed a 300 yard passer yet.
  • They are 10th in the NFL in YPC on offense; Aaron Jones is averaging an insane 5.9 YPC on 98 carries.

The team hasn't played to it's potential, but it's been far from a dumpster fire this season.  The running game is good, the defense has been solid and great at times; the one consistent major issue has been the inability to pass the ball.  Having said that, they've played 4 of the top 10 scoring defenses and four of the top 10 passing defenses by passer rating this season.  In fact I'll go one further and list out that they've played the 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 12th, and 13th defenses by passer rating this season, which is a hell of a group.  Of their top 6 receivers, only Doubs has played in every game this season; every other receiver has missed at least two games.  Both of their best OL are still recovering from ACLs, even if Bahk's was two years ago now.  This is a group that needed time to gel, didn't get preseason reps (which I still hate), and has dealt with a revolving door of injuries which has prevented any kind of consistent growth while playing a full slate of strong defenses.  As frustrated as I've been with Rodgers this season at times, it's very realistic to believe that they have a gear they still have not come close to hitting yet on offense.  The rest of the team is playing pretty well. 

This season is not some mortal sin.  It'll almost certainly end up a disappointment, but the angst over how it's gone is way overblown.  Sometimes you just catch a streak of tough breaks at a time you really can't afford them.  It's exacerbated by Rodgers not playing at a level that elevates talent, but at the end of the day this thing is not as far from respectability as people are acting. 

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vegas492

vegas492

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I'd like to point out just a touch of perspective here.

  • The Packers 5 losses have come against teams with a combined 27-11 record.  Of the 5 losses, only one was a home game (London is pretty clearly an away game for both teams).
  • They haven't given up a 30 point game on defense yet. 
  • They haven't allowed a 300 yard passer yet.
  • They are 10th in the NFL in YPC on offense; Aaron Jones is averaging an insane 5.9 YPC on 98 carries.

The team hasn't played to it's potential, but it's been far from a dumpster fire this season.  The running game is good, the defense has been solid and great at times; the one consistent major issue has been the inability to pass the ball.  Having said that, they've played 4 of the top 10 scoring defenses and four of the top 10 passing defenses by passer rating this season.  In fact I'll go one further and list out that they've played the 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 12th, and 13th defenses by passer rating this season, which is a hell of a group.  Of their top 6 receivers, only Doubs has played in every game this season; every other receiver has missed at least two games.  Both of their best OL are still recovering from ACLs, even if Bahk's was two years ago now.  This is a group that needed time to gel, didn't get preseason reps (which I still hate), and has dealt with a revolving door of injuries which has prevented any kind of consistent growth while playing a full slate of strong defenses.  As frustrated as I've been with Rodgers this season at times, it's very realistic to believe that they have a gear they still have not come close to hitting yet on offense.  The rest of the team is playing pretty well. 

This season is not some mortal sin.  It'll almost certainly end up a disappointment, but the angst over how it's gone is way overblown.  Sometimes you just catch a streak of tough breaks at a time you really can't afford them.  It's exacerbated by Rodgers not playing at a level that elevates talent, but at the end of the day this thing is not as far from respectability as people are acting. 

Like I get it.

But...we were trounced by the Vikes in Week One.  Which most of us kindda thought would happen given our track record of Game 1's.

We beat a bad Bears team at Lambeau.

We got a 2 point win at Tampa with them not having Evans, Godwin or Jones at WR.  Scored all of 14 points.

Win in OT against a Patriots team without their first and second string QB...while at home.

Lost to the G-Men in London, after having a pretty big lead.  

Weren't even really competitive against the Jets...and that was a home game.

Lost on the road to the Commanders and their second string QB.

Lost to a great team (Bills) on the road.  But at least we looked better.

Optics aren't great for the season, even with those W's.  

 

 

 

 

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MrBobGray

MrBobGray

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Posted
20 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Like I get it.

But...we were trounced by the Vikes in Week One.  Which most of us kindda thought would happen given our track record of Game 1's.

We beat a bad Bears team at Lambeau.

We got a 2 point win at Tampa with them not having Evans, Godwin or Jones at WR.  Scored all of 14 points.

Win in OT against a Patriots team without their first and second string QB...while at home.

Lost to the G-Men in London, after having a pretty big lead.  

Weren't even really competitive against the Jets...and that was a home game.

Lost on the road to the Commanders and their second string QB.

Lost to a great team (Bills) on the road.  But at least we looked better.

Optics aren't great for the season, even with those W's.  

 

 

 

 

So I'd look at it like this:

  • Vikings game was bad.  Tough spot and didn't play well.
  • Beat a bad Bears team by 17.
  • The lack of Evans, Godwin and Jones doesn't affect Tampa's defense.  Tampa is 6th in scoring defense and it was in Tampa; defense did their job against an injury plagued squad, offense did just enough against a good unit.
  • Pats were on their 3rd string QB, but they also only scored 17 points and had 271 yards of total offense.  Defense did their job against a weak unit.  Pats aren't an elite defense but they're 12th in points, 10th in yards.  Offense scored 27, 3rd most Pats have given up this year.
  • Giants have been a good team this season, and London games are weird. 
  • Jets game was bad.
  • Commanders game was the offense completely unable to sustain drives.  Rodgers had 5.5 YPA, and they held the ball for 22:53 total.  Defense allowed 23 and scored 7; it wasn't the 2nd string QB that won this game. 
  • Bills game was a battle with a good team at their house. 

Of those, only the Jets and Vikings games were truly ugly.  The rest was the passing game just not able to handle their business; those teams with back-up QBs won on the strength of their defenses, not their offenses.  If the Packers have average production from their passing game, they almost certainly beat the Giants and Commanders, and the Bills game gets a lot more interesting.  Side note: I didn't realize the Packers have rushed for 200 yards 3 times this season (I'm including the 199 against the Pats).  Rodgers has yet to hit 250 passing yards in a game.  So that's a thing.

I guess my point being that they've played more solid football than bad, with the exception of the passing game, which has wavered between acceptable and inexcusably bad.  One bad facet does not a falling sky make.  I will also note I'm trying really hard not to dump on Rodgers here, because he's just one part of the issue in the passing game.  But the offense has a $50 million APY millstone around it's neck due to his contract and his play is nowhere near matching those resources invested in him.  You can want more weapons for Rodgers all you want, but he signed a contract that would make acquiring said weapons near impossible.  The Packers have 20% of their cap going to just Rodgers and Bahktiari; if you sign for that kind of money, you accept the fine print of what it does to your team building.

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vegas492

vegas492

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Posted
2 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

So I'd look at it like this:

  • Vikings game was bad.  Tough spot and didn't play well.
  • Beat a bad Bears team by 17.
  • The lack of Evans, Godwin and Jones doesn't affect Tampa's defense.  Tampa is 6th in scoring defense and it was in Tampa; defense did their job against an injury plagued squad, offense did just enough against a good unit.
  • Pats were on their 3rd string QB, but they also only scored 17 points and had 271 yards of total offense.  Defense did their job against a weak unit.  Pats aren't an elite defense but they're 12th in points, 10th in yards.  Offense scored 27, 3rd most Pats have given up this year.
  • Giants have been a good team this season, and London games are weird. 
  • Jets game was bad.
  • Commanders game was the offense completely unable to sustain drives.  Rodgers had 5.5 YPA, and they held the ball for 22:53 total.  Defense allowed 23 and scored 7; it wasn't the 2nd string QB that won this game. 
  • Bills game was a battle with a good team at their house. 

Of those, only the Jets and Vikings games were truly ugly.  The rest was the passing game just not able to handle their business; those teams with back-up QBs won on the strength of their defenses, not their offenses.  If the Packers have average production from their passing game, they almost certainly beat the Giants and Commanders, and the Bills game gets a lot more interesting.  Side note: I didn't realize the Packers have rushed for 200 yards 3 times this season (I'm including the 199 against the Pats).  Rodgers has yet to hit 250 passing yards in a game.  So that's a thing.

I guess my point being that they've played more solid football than bad, with the exception of the passing game, which has wavered between acceptable and inexcusably bad.  One bad facet does not a falling sky make.  I will also note I'm trying really hard not to dump on Rodgers here, because he's just one part of the issue in the passing game.  But the offense has a $50 million APY millstone around it's neck due to his contract and his play is nowhere near matching those resources invested in him.  You can want more weapons for Rodgers all you want, but he signed a contract that would make acquiring said weapons near impossible.  The Packers have 20% of their cap going to just Rodgers and Bahktiari; if you sign for that kind of money, you accept the fine print of what it does to your team building.

  • The lack of WR's for Tampa certainly played a huge part in the game.  It directly meant that we didn't have to score many points to win.  And that is how we won.  We scored more in a very low scoring game.
  • We played the Pats, at Lambeau, and they were down to their 3rd string QB.  And snuck out a W in overtime.  That was not a quality win.  But, it was a W.  
  • I'm going to irrationally say that the Giants are not a good football team.  They are a winning football team, but that does not mean that they are in fact, good.  (Makes little sense, I know, it's just how I feel.)
  • We were flat out terrible against the Commanders.  Worse offensive performance that I've seen in a while.  And yes, a backup QB did beat GB.  He's got the shoes to prove it.
  • I thought we played as good as we could have against the Bills.  If we played with that kind of effort against the Jets, Commanders and Giants, we would have won those games.
  • All fair points of Rodgers and Bakh.  And if I'm being fair, both played well against the Bills.

 

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Pugger

Pugger

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1 hour ago, MrBobGray said:

So I'd look at it like this:

  • Vikings game was bad.  Tough spot and didn't play well.
  • Beat a bad Bears team by 17.
  • The lack of Evans, Godwin and Jones doesn't affect Tampa's defense.  Tampa is 6th in scoring defense and it was in Tampa; defense did their job against an injury plagued squad, offense did just enough against a good unit.
  • Pats were on their 3rd string QB, but they also only scored 17 points and had 271 yards of total offense.  Defense did their job against a weak unit.  Pats aren't an elite defense but they're 12th in points, 10th in yards.  Offense scored 27, 3rd most Pats have given up this year.
  • Giants have been a good team this season, and London games are weird. 
  • Jets game was bad.
  • Commanders game was the offense completely unable to sustain drives.  Rodgers had 5.5 YPA, and they held the ball for 22:53 total.  Defense allowed 23 and scored 7; it wasn't the 2nd string QB that won this game. 
  • Bills game was a battle with a good team at their house. 

Of those, only the Jets and Vikings games were truly ugly.  The rest was the passing game just not able to handle their business; those teams with back-up QBs won on the strength of their defenses, not their offenses.  If the Packers have average production from their passing game, they almost certainly beat the Giants and Commanders, and the Bills game gets a lot more interesting.  Side note: I didn't realize the Packers have rushed for 200 yards 3 times this season (I'm including the 199 against the Pats).  Rodgers has yet to hit 250 passing yards in a game.  So that's a thing.

I guess my point being that they've played more solid football than bad, with the exception of the passing game, which has wavered between acceptable and inexcusably bad.  One bad facet does not a falling sky make.  I will also note I'm trying really hard not to dump on Rodgers here, because he's just one part of the issue in the passing game.  But the offense has a $50 million APY millstone around it's neck due to his contract and his play is nowhere near matching those resources invested in him.  You can want more weapons for Rodgers all you want, but he signed a contract that would make acquiring said weapons near impossible.  The Packers have 20% of their cap going to just Rodgers and Bahktiari; if you sign for that kind of money, you accept the fine print of what it does to your team building.

It appears Tampa isn't very good either.  They got those WRs back and are still losing.

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AlexGreen#20

AlexGreen#20

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

I'd like to point out just a touch of perspective here.

  • The Packers 5 losses have come against teams with a combined 27-11 record.  Of the 5 losses, only one was a home game (London is pretty clearly an away game for both teams).
  • They haven't given up a 30 point game on defense yet. 
  • They haven't allowed a 300 yard passer yet.
  • They are 10th in the NFL in YPC on offense; Aaron Jones is averaging an insane 5.9 YPC on 98 carries.

The team hasn't played to it's potential, but it's been far from a dumpster fire this season.  The running game is good, the defense has been solid and great at times; the one consistent major issue has been the inability to pass the ball.  Having said that, they've played 4 of the top 10 scoring defenses and four of the top 10 passing defenses by passer rating this season.  In fact I'll go one further and list out that they've played the 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 12th, and 13th defenses by passer rating this season, which is a hell of a group.  Of their top 6 receivers, only Doubs has played in every game this season; every other receiver has missed at least two games.  Both of their best OL are still recovering from ACLs, even if Bahk's was two years ago now.  This is a group that needed time to gel, didn't get preseason reps (which I still hate), and has dealt with a revolving door of injuries which has prevented any kind of consistent growth while playing a full slate of strong defenses.  As frustrated as I've been with Rodgers this season at times, it's very realistic to believe that they have a gear they still have not come close to hitting yet on offense.  The rest of the team is playing pretty well. 

This season is not some mortal sin.  It'll almost certainly end up a disappointment, but the angst over how it's gone is way overblown.  Sometimes you just catch a streak of tough breaks at a time you really can't afford them.  It's exacerbated by Rodgers not playing at a level that elevates talent, but at the end of the day this thing is not as far from respectability as people are acting. 

Kirk Cousins

Justin Fields

Tom Brady's corpse

Zapp Branigan

Danny Dimes

Zach (Milf Hunter) Wilson

Tyler Heineken

Josh Allen

You can't go 3-5 against that motley collection of scrubs. Under any circumstances. 

 

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Norm

Norm

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9 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Kirk Cousins

Justin Fields

Tom Brady's corpse

Zapp Branigan

Danny Dimes

Zach (Milf Hunter) Wilson

Tyler Heineken

Josh Allen

You can't go 3-5 against that motley collection of scrubs. Under any circumstances. 

 

I hate to do this to you but it also isn't singles tennis either. You don't just play the QB. Though I'm on board with this record. I can't tell where I land between you and Bob here though.

I'm gonna try and bright side a few more weeks I guess

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