Cwood is a nerd and so are all the Packer Favorite Prospects: 2023 Draft Discussion Thread

[vegas492]

40 minutes ago, CrazyJoeDavola said:

I am assuming the top end receivers are going to be gone so I have moved to later rounds and my first draft want (outside of homer picks) of this season Is Andrei Iosivas, WR Princeton. 6'3" 212 pounds and runs a 4.3? sign me up! He has small hands and shortish arms but in the mid rounds I like this guy. He and Watson and be the deep guys and let Doubs roam the middle.

I think it's tough to slot out where the WR's go in this draft.  Combine will be huge for them.  I don't think the top of this WR class is nearly as good as it was last year.

[CrazyJoeDavola]

21 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I think it's tough to slot out where the WR's go in this draft.  Combine will be huge for them.  I don't think the top of this WR class is nearly as good as it was last year.

Yea its tough to pinpoint where any will go but I feel they will be overdrafted (in my mind). I don't want a WR in round 1 especially at pick 15. Second round would be alright but I am not a fan of the small 175 lbs receivers. So I feel value will be later in the draft. But ultimately I am an idiot and know very little other than youtube clips.

[CrazyJoeDavola]

36 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but Doubs is pretty much a boundary receiver. We need a slot guy which is why I want Jalin Wyatt if he slides so us in round 2. Might be doubtful he gets to us in round 2. 

 

I assume you mean Jalin Hyatt? I don't feel like at this point he will be available in the second. Even then I am not a fan of the slight build on receivers. At 180 lbs I just don't think he is a good fit in GB. My rudimentary understanding of the offense in Gb is that the slot is basically an extension of the TE. Lazard was primarily a slot guy in this offense which is more the body type I feel this staff (me as well) is looking at. Which none of the top tier WR coming out fill that role physically. If I am looking for a Lazard type slot Johnathan Mingo would be my guy. Ideally though you don't have such defined positions and the WR can line up anywhere. I feel Doubs and Watson are developing into that type of player.

[ThatJerkDave]

52 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I think it's tough to slot out where the WR's go in this draft.  Combine will be huge for them.  I don't think the top of this WR class is nearly as good as it was last year.

I agree so much with this.  I just started digging into these guys a couple of days ago, and I find out that Raychee Rice goes from 6'3 in a scouting report to 6'0.5 at the senior bowl, and my opinion changes quite a bit.  

@Old Guy, I watched some of Doubs Nevada highlights again.  He lined up inside some, but he was primarily outside.  He won't be confused for Randall Cobb, but I think he is versatile enough to play some snaps there, if the available personnel would dictate that.  And speaking of Doubs, I don't know how we were not lining him up at punt returner over Rodgers, but that is water under the bridge.

@CrazyJoeDavola, I generally agree about the short, and sleight WRs.  But I think there are some exceptions to the rule.  We have had success in the recent past with Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, and Randall Cobb.  There are definitely some midget receivers, and personally, I have no interest in them at all.  But guys like Jalin Hyatt and Jaxon Smith-Njigba are pretty good.

[CrazyJoeDavola]

11 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

 

@CrazyJoeDavola, I generally agree about the short, and sleight WRs.  But I think there are some exceptions to the rule.  We have had success in the recent past with Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, and Randall Cobb.  There are definitely some midget receivers, and personally, I have no interest in them at all.  But guys like Jalin Hyatt and Jaxon Smith-Njigba are pretty good.

I don't hold it as a hard line rule. I mean if you are a good player you are a good player but its a personal preference. As for those guys you mention I see Jalin Hyatt as an outlier even in that group of smaller WR. To me, 6' 180 is a lot different body composition than 5'10'' 200 (Cobb), 6' 200 (Driver and JSN), or 5'11'' 200 (Jennings). Hyatt is still 20 pounds lighter than those guys and that is the big difference for me. Based on measurables (which is all that matters right?) I prefer a guy like Rashee Rice over Hyatt.

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, CrazyJoeDavola said:

I assume you mean Jalin Hyatt? I don't feel like at this point he will be available in the second. Even then I am not a fan of the slight build on receivers. At 180 lbs I just don't think he is a good fit in GB. My rudimentary understanding of the offense in Gb is that the slot is basically an extension of the TE. Lazard was primarily a slot guy in this offense which is more the body type I feel this staff (me as well) is looking at. Which none of the top tier WR coming out fill that role physically. If I am looking for a Lazard type slot Johnathan Mingo would be my guy. Ideally though you don't have such defined positions and the WR can line up anywhere. I feel Doubs and Watson are developing into that type of player.

Correct! I had Devonte Wyatt on the brain or something. 

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I agree so much with this.  I just started digging into these guys a couple of days ago, and I find out that Raychee Rice goes from 6'3 in a scouting report to 6'0.5 at the senior bowl, and my opinion changes quite a bit.  

@Old Guy, I watched some of Doubs Nevada highlights again.  He lined up inside some, but he was primarily outside.  He won't be confused for Randall Cobb, but I think he is versatile enough to play some snaps there, if the available personnel would dictate that.  And speaking of Doubs, I don't know how we were not lining him up at punt returner over Rodgers, but that is water under the bridge.

@CrazyJoeDavola, I generally agree about the short, and sleight WRs.  But I think there are some exceptions to the rule.  We have had success in the recent past with Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, and Randall Cobb.  There are definitely some midget receivers, and personally, I have no interest in them at all.  But guys like Jalin Hyatt and Jaxon Smith-Njigba are pretty good.

Guy might be slight of frame but if he runs sub-4.3, I want him. Let defenses pick their poison. 

Also, I just don't see Doubs in the slot. I see him more of a Davante Adams type of guy. He's got freaky hops and he's quick. 

Give me Watson, Doubs and Hyatt and I'll take my chances with Love under center. 

[R T]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I agree so much with this.  I just started digging into these guys a couple of days ago, and I find out that Raychee Rice goes from 6'3 in a scouting report to 6'0.5 at the senior bowl, and my opinion changes quite a bit.  

@Old Guy, I watched some of Doubs Nevada highlights again.  He lined up inside some, but he was primarily outside.  He won't be confused for Randall Cobb, but I think he is versatile enough to play some snaps there, if the available personnel would dictate that.  And speaking of Doubs, I don't know how we were not lining him up at punt returner over Rodgers, but that is water under the bridge.

@CrazyJoeDavola, I generally agree about the short, and sleight WRs.  But I think there are some exceptions to the rule.  We have had success in the recent past with Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, and Randall Cobb.  There are definitely some midget receivers, and personally, I have no interest in them at all.  But guys like Jalin Hyatt and Jaxon Smith-Njigba are pretty good.

5' 11" - 6'0" - 6' 1" it doesn't make a lot of difference. 

4.3/40 - 4.4/40 doesn't make a lot of difference. 

172 pounds or 180 pounds to 198 pounds makes a big difference when the laws of physics are applied in the game of football. 

Using PFF's measurements they list Smith-Njigba at 198 and Hyatt at 180, JSN is 10% larger than Hyatt. Think that makes no difference? Use that percentage increase for a D-lineman who is 290 pounds versus one 10% larger at 319 pounds. Size matters with the game of football. And there is no need to point out if the smaller guy has more talent, we all get that. 

People using Driver (played at 6'0/194), Jennings (6'0/198), Cobb (5'10/195) are missing the huge difference between 170-180 to the 190's. 

The Packers are probably very interested in JSN, Hyatt probably not so much. 

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, R T said:

5' 11" - 6'0" - 6' 1" it doesn't make a lot of difference. 

4.3/40 - 4.4/40 doesn't make a lot of difference. 

172 pounds or 180 pounds to 198 pounds makes a big difference when the laws of physics are applied in the game of football. 

Using PFF's measurements they list Smith-Njigba at 198 and Hyatt at 180, JSN is 10% larger than Hyatt. Think that makes no difference? Use that percentage increase for a D-lineman who is 290 pounds versus one 10% larger at 319 pounds. Size matters with the game of football. And there is no need to point out if the smaller guy has more talent, we all get that. 

People using Driver (played at 6'0/194), Jennings (6'0/198), Cobb (5'10/195) are missing the huge difference between 170-180 to the 190's. 

The Packers are probably very interested in JSN, Hyatt probably not so much. 

I guess I am using "small" kind of fast and loose.  There is Greg Jennings "small" and there is Trindon Holliday "small."  I am also using "small" as: smaller than the Packers tendencies. And subsequently "big" is anyone that meets the criteria.  Because going by my own categorization, Ramses Barden and Davante Adams were both "big."

I also look at each individual player on his own merit, but I do find some utility in categorizing them in the four groups that I did.  Perhaps there is more refinement needed?  Like way too small?

 

My stance on Hyatt is that if you would be okay with Desean Jackson, you should be okay with Hyatt.  I would be on board with Hyatt.  I agree that the Packers very well could not.  

 

Love the discussion guys! Keep it up!

[Refugee]

We probably can accommodate a variety of receivers, building a “basketball team” in our corps but I agree anyone too light won’t make it. They would have to be electric and help in the return game to even be considered. I think Deebo is pretty much the prototype for this offense from a speed/weight/explosiveness/toughness combination. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Refugee

[Old Guy]

4 hours ago, R T said:

5' 11" - 6'0" - 6' 1" it doesn't make a lot of difference. 

4.3/40 - 4.4/40 doesn't make a lot of difference. 

172 pounds or 180 pounds to 198 pounds makes a big difference when the laws of physics are applied in the game of football. 

Using PFF's measurements they list Smith-Njigba at 198 and Hyatt at 180, JSN is 10% larger than Hyatt. Think that makes no difference? Use that percentage increase for a D-lineman who is 290 pounds versus one 10% larger at 319 pounds. Size matters with the game of football. And there is no need to point out if the smaller guy has more talent, we all get that. 

People using Driver (played at 6'0/194), Jennings (6'0/198), Cobb (5'10/195) are missing the huge difference between 170-180 to the 190's. 

The Packers are probably very interested in JSN, Hyatt probably not so much. 

Jalen Waddle 5'10 182

Devonte Smith 6' 170

 

If you are fast, can catch and run decent routes, you can play in the NFL. 

Nobody wants to talk about how JSN decided not to play in the college football playoffs and bailed on his team. That is a red flag for me. I guy who would bail on his team with a chance to win a championship is not much of a competitor. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Old Guy

[MacReady]

7 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Jalen Waddle 5'10 182

Devonte Smith 6' 170

If you are fast, can catch and run decent routes, you can play in the NFL. 

Nobody wants to talk about how JSN decided not to play in the college football playoffs and bailed on his team. That is a red flag for me. I guy who would bail on his team with a chance to win a championship is not much of a competitor. 

Just asking and I don’t know.

How many players under 180 have had 6,000 career receiving yards?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_career.htm

[MantyWrestler]

2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I guess I am using "small" kind of fast and loose.  There is Greg Jennings "small" and there is Trindon Holliday "small."  I am also using "small" as: smaller than the Packers tendencies. And subsequently "big" is anyone that meets the criteria.  Because going by my own categorization, Ramses Barden and Davante Adams were both "big."

I also look at each individual player on his own merit, but I do find some utility in categorizing them in the four groups that I did.  Perhaps there is more refinement needed?  Like way too small?

 

My stance on Hyatt is that if you would be okay with Desean Jackson, you should be okay with Hyatt.  I would be on board with Hyatt.  I agree that the Packers very well could not.  

 

Love the discussion guys! Keep it up!

Wasn’t Desean Jackson was hurt quite often during his career?

[Old Guy]

17 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Just asking and I don’t know.

How many players under 180 have had 6,000 career receiving yards?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_career.htm

No idea. DeSean Jackson is #37 with 11K

Marvin Harrison was 185 and he was #9, 

Gary Clark #41

Also, I think Donald Driver came into the league at 180 and bulked up over time. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Old Guy

[MantyWrestler]

19 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Jalen Waddle 5'10 182

Devonte Smith 6' 170

If you are fast, can catch and run decent routes, you can play in the NFL. 

Nobody wants to talk about how JSN decided not to play in the college football playoffs and bailed on his team. That is a red flag for me. I guy who would bail on his team with a chance to win a championship is not much of a competitor. 

2 more guys who are hurt often so far and just in the very beginning of their careers. Not that that is the end all as Watson was hurt a lot too, I just think it’s a law of averages thing. Also much harder for them to block well

[Old Guy]

1 minute ago, MantyWrestler said:

2 more guys who are hurt often so far and just in the very beginning of their careers. Not that that is the end all as Watson was hurt a lot too, I just think it’s a law of averages thing. Also much harder for them to block well

Waddle missed 1 game in his 2-year career. HE was coming off a foot injury at Alabama. 

Devonta Smith hasn't missed a game in two years, but nice try.