Packerraymond Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 3 hours ago, R T said: And so it begins. You're comfortable with a Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Samari Toure, Bo Melton WR room? Very good odds that we take a WR at 45, or if we get picks for Rodgers, maybe even sooner. There is no true consensus #1 guy. It's a depth class, but I would say Olave, Wilson, London are all probably above the #1 of this class. It's on par with guys like Burks and Dotson. No reason we shouldn't be talking about the top WRs of this class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 23 minutes ago, packfanfb said: I wanted to put him in my mock I just did as a 2nd rounder but didn't for this reason...I don't think he'll be there, especially at 45. Absent a trade back, I think 15 would be too rich for him, but we know how Gute feels about big guys who can move. Gutes job is to get players that best fit the schemes the coaching staff is running, not draft to his personal bias and he has done a great job supporting MLF with the type of players he feels he needs for those schemes. We all heard much about the Star position when Barry came aboard and the importance of ILB's to his scheme. On the flip side, when Pettine was DC it was about big EDGE players and cover CB's. That is why the Smith's were signed along with the drafting of Alexander who historically the Packers wouldn't have been that high on. Barry's defense is ILB centric and is the reason Gutes was willing to spend high draft capital on an ILB when it was unthinkable most any other years. It amazes me the volume of fans of teams that don't understand their team and the skillsets of players that best fit their team. It's not that Gutes wouldn't draft a 170 something pound WR, it's that it makes no sense in MLF's offense. What doesn't help and probably leads many astray is when the media also has no clue what teams are trying to do. The day before the draft last year Peter King who should have a clue mocked the 170-pound WR from Penn State to the Packers and proved he is just bumping around in the dark like most of the others that pretend to know something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 47 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: You're comfortable with a Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Samari Toure, Bo Melton WR room? Very good odds that we take a WR at 45, or if we get picks for Rodgers, maybe even sooner. There is no true consensus #1 guy. It's a depth class, but I would say Olave, Wilson, London are all probably above the #1 of this class. It's on par with guys like Burks and Dotson. No reason we shouldn't be talking about the top WRs of this class. For being the smartest dog, you sure end up at a lot of empty rabbit holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, R T said: For being the smartest dog, you sure end up at a lot of empty rabbit holes. Please enlighten me all knowing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Please enlighten me all knowing one. All knowing one is your territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 28 minutes ago, R T said: Gutes job is to get players that best fit the schemes the coaching staff is running, not draft to his personal bias and he has done a great job supporting MLF with the type of players he feels he needs for those schemes. We all heard much about the Star position when Barry came aboard and the importance of ILB's to his scheme. On the flip side, when Pettine was DC it was about big EDGE players and cover CB's. That is why the Smith's were signed along with the drafting of Alexander who historically the Packers wouldn't have been that high on. Barry's defense is ILB centric and is the reason Gutes was willing to spend high draft capital on an ILB when it was unthinkable most any other years. It amazes me the volume of fans of teams that don't understand their team and the skillsets of players that best fit their team. It's not that Gutes wouldn't draft a 170 something pound WR, it's that it makes no sense in MLF's offense. What doesn't help and probably leads many astray is when the media also has no clue what teams are trying to do. The day before the draft last year Peter King who should have a clue mocked the 170-pound WR from Penn State to the Packers and proved he is just bumping around in the dark like most of the others that pretend to know something. To this point, though, one thing we haven't really seen is Gute drafting any lighter EDGE players since Barry has been here. You mentioned the heavier, Pettine EDGE types (Z, P and Gary) we have drafted/signed, however, while Barry was in LA (wasn't the DC of course) the Rams played with lighter EDGE players (Floyd around 240, Hollins around 245). Interestingly, we signed Hollins mid-last season, but we haven't gone the "lighter" EDGE route in the draft (Enagbare a hair lighter at nearly 260). Makes you wonder whether a Nolan Smith-type would be on Gute's radar or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, packfanfb said: I wanted to put him in my mock I just did as a 2nd rounder but didn't for this reason...I don't think he'll be there, especially at 45. Absent a trade back, I think 15 would be too rich for him, but we know how Gute feels about big guys who can move. I'm working on one with his in the first few picks of the second as well, but am toying with trading that pick. He'd be a great target, especially if we don't bring Reed back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 36 minutes ago, packfanfb said: To this point, though, one thing we haven't really seen is Gute drafting any lighter EDGE players since Barry has been here. You mentioned the heavier, Pettine EDGE types (Z, P and Gary) we have drafted/signed, however, while Barry was in LA (wasn't the DC of course) the Rams played with lighter EDGE players (Floyd around 240, Hollins around 245). Interestingly, we signed Hollins mid-last season, but we haven't gone the "lighter" EDGE route in the draft (Enagbare a hair lighter at nearly 260). Makes you wonder whether a Nolan Smith-type would be on Gute's radar or not. Good thing to question. I do recall Barry being asked about EDGE players early on and his response was that his defense works with either type. Now the better question might be, does Gutes want to spend first round draft capital on an EDGE player that may not fit the next DC's scheme if he thinks Barry might be out the door at some point soon? Maybe he leans towards defensive players that aren't scheme limited? Maybe a versatile do all safety (Branch) or a DL that can play from 0 to 5T (Bresee)? All part of the draft mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, R T said: All knowing one is your territory. I know what you are getting at regarding WR's. If they ain't got size, they aren't coming to GB early. And while a guy like Flowers is fun to watch in college...his size doesn't translate well to the MLF offense. 5'10'' 172. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Lots of sense in drafting for coach and scheme. A caution, though, is that coaches and schemes can change? If MLF's run-prioritized scheme struggles again, the offense stinks, and the team loses.... Might MLF decide to hire an OC/play-caller from outside next year? And suddenly the scheme and priorities looks different? MLF has already asked himself whether coaching and play-calling is the healthiest for him and the team, so if there's another season of it not working, it's not implausible that he'd make a change? If the team has double-digit losses and the defense struggles, might Barry go? If you're drafting players for bad schemes, that can be hard to fix, even after the schemes are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, craig said: Lots of sense in drafting for coach and scheme. A caution, though, is that coaches and schemes can change? If MLF's run-prioritized scheme struggles again, the offense stinks, and the team loses.... Might MLF decide to hire an OC/play-caller from outside next year? And suddenly the scheme and priorities looks different? MLF has already asked himself whether coaching and play-calling is the healthiest for him and the team, so if there's another season of it not working, it's not implausible that he'd make a change? If the team has double-digit losses and the defense struggles, might Barry go? If you're drafting players for bad schemes, that can be hard to fix, even after the schemes are gone. It's got little to do with play calling. In our scheme, we like larger WR's that can block, as everything is supposed to built off of the run looks. That is what MLF wants. It is not what we did as MLF tried his best to blend what he wants with what Aaron wants, which ironically enough is a lot of what Mac ran with him...you know, the coach that Rodgers pretty much quit on and got fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitnhope Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) Seems to me part of good coaching is using the talent at hand or available to its best end. If you have to go with less talent due to scheme choice then maybe we need to add coaching problem to the list of issues up at 1265. If the offense has no use for a player like Tyreke Hill due to size, it might be reasonable to question the offense. Edited February 21, 2023 by hitnhope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyJoeDavola Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I am excited for Michael Mayer to be the pick at and the meltdown that follows. (I don't truly believe or want him to be the pick at 15) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isherwood Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Lukas Van Ness just sounds like a guy who is destined to be a packer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 if we take a quick look at edge guys the Packers have taken, this century, only KGB, Brad Jones, Kyler Fackrell, and Kendall Donnerson have been 250 or less. If we extend that to 255, you can add Clay Matthews and Ricky Elmore. Brady Poppinga kind of played a little of the rush backer when we transitioned to a 3-4 and he was 250. If we extend that to non drafted guys, I believe Tipa Galeai and Justin Hollins, Erik Walden, Frank Zombo, and Jayrone Elliott are below 250. Hollins, Walden and Zombo were right at the 250 mark. Feel free to add more if I forgot anyone. BUT we seem to go with the 260+ edge guys when at all possible. Perhaps that is just a symptom of the position. I am far less sure about this than I am with the WR rule, and we may have to go reexamine the Waldo chart for other factors. I would probably cross Nolan Smith off the list, at least with pencil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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