Cwood is a nerd and so are all the Packer Favorite Prospects: 2023 Draft Discussion Thread

[Brat&Beer]

30 minutes ago, Isherwood said:

Lukas Van Ness just sounds like a guy who is destined to be a packer 

It will be interesting to see if his athleticism wins out over the fact he wasn't a starter in the eyes of scouts and GM's. 

[craig]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

It's got little to do with play calling.  In our scheme, we like larger WR's that can block, as everything is supposed to built off of the run looks.  That is what MLF wants...

Just hypothetically speaking, what if MLF's scheme and philosophy is hypothetically kinda crummy? 

We might be locked in for a lot of drafts to drafting guys for an unsuccessful scheme.  

[ThatJerkDave]

You guys do realize that the big WR thing has been going on since at least Ron Wolf, right?  That is 4 GMs, and I think 5 HCs.  I didn't really look any further back than that.  And it isn't like the Packers have been wanting for offense in many of those seasons either.  So while we may pass on Desean Jackson or Tyreek Hill, we also put a higher value on guys like Jordy Nelson, and Davante Adams.  

It isn't a hard rule.  Two very notable exceptions were Greg Jennings and Randall Cobb.  Both were very good for the Packers, and both were shorter than 6'1 and weighed less than 200 lbs.  I believe that Jennings may have been over 200 after a few seasons, but I am not positive.  But, your typical GB WR is going to be 6'2 and 205. So, yes, look for your WR draft picks to be 6'1 or taller and/or 200 lbs or heavier.  Probably do the same for your projected UDFAs, or any FA pick-ups as well.

[ThatJerkDave]

24 minutes ago, Brat&Beer said:

It will be interesting to see if his athleticism wins out over the fact he wasn't a starter in the eyes of scouts and GM's. 

In my personal view, he was more suited for a traditional 43 end than the stand-up rushers that we use.  Could it work? Sure, maybe.  But I am seeing more Aaron Kampman than Clay Matthews.  Van Ness does have the heft that we have seemed to prefer, I am just seeing a primary hand in the dirt guy.  And it is possible that I am incorrect, I have only taken a cursory glance into the edge guys so far.

[Sandy]

4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

You guys do realize that the big WR thing has been going on since at least Ron Wolf, right?  That is 4 GMs, and I think 5 HCs.  I didn't really look any further back than that.  And it isn't like the Packers have been wanting for offense in many of those seasons either.  So while we may pass on Desean Jackson or Tyreek Hill, we also put a higher value on guys like Jordy Nelson, and Davante Adams.  

It isn't a hard rule.  Two very notable exceptions were Greg Jennings and Randall Cobb.  Both were very good for the Packers, and both were shorter than 6'1 and weighed less than 200 lbs.  I believe that Jennings may have been over 200 after a few seasons, but I am not positive.  But, your typical GB WR is going to be 6'2 and 205. So, yes, look for your WR draft picks to be 6'1 or taller and/or 200 lbs or heavier.  Probably do the same for your projected UDFAs, or any FA pick-ups as well.

That's why I'm hoping Jalin Hyatt comes to the combine with weights hidden in his shorts. 

[ThatJerkDave]

Just now, Sandy said:

That's why I'm hoping Jalin Hyatt comes to the combine with weights hidden in his shorts. 

Or he could just wow the staff.  Like I said, Jennings and Cobb both don't fit the Packers mold.  Both were drafted in the second round, and both had very successful Packers careers.  I just wouldn't hold my breath on GB going for a player like that.  

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, Sandy said:

That's why I'm hoping Jalin Hyatt comes to the combine with weights hidden in his shorts. 

I don't think Hyatt will be an outlier. He's 6ft, listed around the low 180s and basically has the exact same frame as Will Fuller, a guy we were trying to trade for a few years ago. 

[Malfatron]

Lets see all the elite RAS scores.

That will be the packers players

[Mr. Fussnputz]

32 minutes ago, Malfatron said:

Lets see all the elite RAS scores.

That will be the packers players

Gute likes RAS-ma-taz!

[MacReady]

Gute is a ****ing idiot.

[ThatJerkDave]

Since we are discussing WRs, I am going to take a quick look at them tonight. 

 

I do want to get everyone's thoughts about our DL though.  I think we need to add to the DL, but what do we need and how much of an investment is actually needed? Clark is good.  Wyatt seemed to put it together as the year progressed.  And TJ Slaton has turned into a good player as well.  If that was our starting 3 next season, I would be fine with it.  At the same time, if pick 15 comes in, and it is a DL, I would probably be okay with that too.

[R T]

3 hours ago, craig said:

Just hypothetically speaking, what if MLF's scheme and philosophy is hypothetically kinda crummy? 

We might be locked in for a lot of drafts to drafting guys for an unsuccessful scheme.  

Every team goes through the same thing of having some players that are not ideal for a scheme that changed. As an example, when Capers arrived, he inherited a Pro Bowler in Aaron Campman that was not a good fit for his system. Clay Matthews was a perfect fit for Capers but was not in Pettine's system. The current team has about half the secondary that is better in man and the other half is better in zone. It's a huge downside of high turnover of coaching staffs, something fans give little regard to when they want to change coordinators as often as they change their underwear. 

But it doesn't change what Gutes needs to do and that is support the coaching staff with the players that best fit their system. They all are and need to be working in locked step to give the staff the best players for that system. No room for doubt, 100% committed to each other. 

[Sandy]

4 hours ago, Brat&Beer said:

It will be interesting to see if his athleticism wins out over the fact he wasn't a starter in the eyes of scouts and GM's. 

Something tells me he's going to have a disappointing RAS and ruin our hopes

[ThatJerkDave]

My look at WRs.  I will again use the draft network for the rankings. Are they the greatest? I don't know. But the site is easy to navigate and it gives me some sort of list and a short profile to start with.  I categorized these guys by the size.  Official tale of the tape is not done, yet.  So this is subject to change.  And again, I am watching maybe 2-10 minutes of highlights. (parenthesis is their overall ranking)

Group 1:  Meets size requirements

-Quentin Johnston TCU 6'4 210. (19) This guy is another RAS dream.  Write-up says he struggled to get off press, and inconsistent in contested catches.  I don't know how he blocks, but if he can at all, pairing him with Watson would be unfair.

-Rashee Rice SMU 6'3 206. (54) Not as fast as Johnston, but a big target that is fast enough, think EQ.  Write-up says he is a good blocker, highlights don't show that. [edit] highlights don't not show that either, there weren't highlights of him blocking from the clips that I watched 

-Cedric Tillman Tenn 6'3 215.  (64) He plays like the classic big WR.  He shields off the ball really well, and doesn't get a ton of yac.  Write-up says he is fast, he isn't slow, but I didn't see anything that screams fast to me.

-Xavier Hutchinson ISU 6'3 210. (83) I think he plays the big WR much like Tillman.  Hutchinson looks like he would be a very good possession WR in the league.  

Group 2:  Tall enough, but too light

None in top 100 prospects

Group 3:  Heavy enough, but too short

-Kashon Boutte LSU 6'0 205. (45)  His build kind of looks like a RB to me.  He is also one of those guys that moves faster than it looks like he is moving.  

-Jayden Reed MSU 6'0 215. (82) I just see a solid football player here.  The write up says he played all WR positions and he returned kicks and punts.  One listing had him at 185, I put him here because he looked plenty big.  I don't know if there is anything special about Reed, but I also didn't see anything that would make you shy away either.  I think a good comparison would be Steve Smith from the Giants.  

Group 4:  Doesn't meet size requirements

-Jordan Addison USC 6'0 175.  (16) I liked his Pittsburgh stuff better than his SC stuff.  I will be honest, this is their top rated WR, and I just don't see it.  I see a slower Bo Melton, but with good QBs.

-Jaxon Smith-Njigba OSU 6'0 198. (22) This guy is smooth.  Reminds me of a Justin Jefferson or Greg Jennings.  Loved what I saw in his highlights.  He doesn't seem to slow down at all when making a catch, and catches everything in his hands.  If you want anything he could be a little faster, but he is fast enough to be effective.  

-Jalin Hyatt Tenn 6'0 185. (34)  Explosive.  This is a Desean Jackson clone.

-Zay Flowers  BC 5'11 172.  (39) Now we are getting to tiny players.  Looking at the video, I don't believe he is 5'11.  I am reminded of the midget from Purdue last year.

-Josh Downs NC 5'10 171. (47)  Zay Flowers but probably a little quicker.  

-Marvin Mims 0U 5'11 180.  (68) First off, watch his highlights to see one of the best catches you will ever see.  He seems to have a knack for getting behind the defense.  He also returned some punts and kickoffs.  He is small, but he doesn't look as tiny as Flowers or Downs.

-Tyler Scott Cinn 5'11 185.  (76) He is fast.  If you want Jalin Hyatt but miss out, Scott is probably the next best thing.

-Nathaniel "Tank" Dell Hou 5'9 160 (100) Very shifty and quick.  Way too slight, IMO.

 

Dave's conclusions:

-I like all of the group 1 candidates, and those are the Packers types as well.  I think Johnston and Rice could be really good outside WRs, that would work well with Watson and Doubs.  I also think that Tillman and Hutchinson would make good possession WRs, and be very valuable if they learn to block.  Given these rankings, I think Hutchinson in the third is a better value than Tillman in the second.

-I also really like JSN, and I didn't expect that I would.  Put this guy anywhere in the formation and he can work.  Plus, if you give him a couple of butter burgers he will be 200+ pounds in no time.  

-I also really like Hyatt.  He is listed about 10 pounds heavier than I thought he was, which is less concerning to me.  And again, Scott is a poor man's Hyatt, and could probably also be effective.

-I really, really don't like the tiny WRs.  Flowers, Downs, and Dell are just too small, and I feel you have to gimmick ways to get them involved.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by ThatJerkDave

[ReadyToThump]

Zay

*pounds table*

Flowers

The dude is smooth as silk!

While it's highly unlikely we take a WR round 1, let alone at that size... one can still fantasize. The offseason is way too long and the different scenarios/picks all cruise through my mind.