2023 Draft

[THE DUKE]

13 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

I would rather trade back 10-15 spots and take LaPorta rather than sit at 28 and take Mayer.

Mayer is a better blocker than LaPorta.  Also a better route runner and has better hands.  That said, I get the reasoning behind LaPorta and another 3rd rd pick vs just Mayer, but I won't be upset if it is Mayer at 28.

[THE DUKE]

Darnell Washington seems to be falling on some of these big boards.  PFF has him at 71 now, PFN at 32 (was in the mid 20s), ESPN at 32 (saw him as high as 20 at one point).  Daniel Jeremiah still has him at 22.  Seems to be a lot of variance on how people see him.

[sparky151]

7 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

?

?

There's nothing wrong with LaPorta but there are plenty of comparable players who are likely to be available a round later. 

 

I don't know the other picks that left Harrison as the best OT at 28 but there's probably better talent available at other positions if 5 of the first 27 picks are OTs.

 

4 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

We took Tee as the 5th/6th WR at pick 33?  So that was a horrible idea too?  Only five picks later...................

No, taking Tee and giving our rookie QB a good target was a solid plan. Tee has turned out to be better than some of the guys drafted ahead of him. It's possible Anton Harrison turns out to be a better player than Paris Johnson or Broderick Jones or Dawand Jones or Darnell Wright. But I wouldn't bet on it.

 

 

[sparky151]

2 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Darnell Washington seems to be falling on some of these big boards.  PFF has him at 71 now, PFN at 32 (was in the mid 20s), ESPN at 32 (saw him as high as 20 at one point).  Daniel Jeremiah still has him at 22.  Seems to be a lot of variance on how people see him.

The various big boards are all over the place. Look at Karl Brooks or Tank Dell for example. Brooks is top 60 at PFF and top 50 at CBS. He's in the 200s at other places and wasn't among the 350 or so invited to the combine.

[THE DUKE]

1 minute ago, sparky151 said:

The various big boards are all over the place. Look at Karl Brooks or Tank Dell for example. Brooks is top 60 at PFF and top 50 at CBS. He's in the 200s at other places and wasn't among the 350 or so invited to the combine.

I've actually looked into Brooks some based on the PFF hype, I think that 50-60 range is a bit rich from what i've seen.  I wouldn't take him before before day 3.

[SmittyBacall]

53 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

There's nothing wrong with LaPorta but there are plenty of comparable players who are likely to be available a round later. 

Not with his athleticism, tape, and production profile.

54 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

I don't know the other picks that left Harrison as the best OT at 28 but there's probably better talent available at other positions if 5 of the first 27 picks are OTs.

First of all, it wouldn't surprise me if Harrison was gone well before 28. And secondly, the ranking of a prospect in a position group doesn't matter in relation to the class as a whole. For instance, the 4th ranked OT in an exceptionally strong OT class can be better/valued higher than the best 1st WR in an exceptionally weak WR class.

[sparky151]

1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

Not with his athleticism, tape, and production profile.

First of all, it wouldn't surprise me if Harrison was gone well before 28. And secondly, the ranking of a prospect in a position group doesn't matter in relation to the class as a whole. For instance, the 4th ranked OT in an exceptionally strong OT class can be better/valued higher than the best 1st WR in an exceptionally weak WR class.

Tape?!  Iowa had a terrible offense last year with LaPorta their main target. They repeatedly forced the ball in his direction so he got more targets than most TEs. So did Mayer, who did a lot more for his team than LaPorta.

 

I agree with your general point but it's the reason the comparison between Harrison and Higgins is inapt. This isn't an especially strong OT class. If we have a need at RT, we shouldn't take 2nd round talent in the first round to fill it. 

[Beck Bristow]

I wouldn't love Harrison, but not because of value, but because I think Wright or Jones are going to be better at Right Tackle and Harrison is more of a both sides.

[INbengalfan]

45 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Tape?!  Iowa had a terrible offense last year with LaPorta their main target. They repeatedly forced the ball in his direction so he got more targets than most TEs. So did Mayer, who did a lot more for his team than LaPorta.

 

I agree with your general point but it's the reason the comparison between Harrison and Higgins is inapt. This isn't an especially strong OT class. If we have a need at RT, we shouldn't take 2nd round talent in the first round to fill it. 

It's a totally apt and reasonable comparison when you say that you aren't taking the 6th rated prospect at one position over someone else.  It completely ignores their overall rating.  This seems to come up every year about this time when this group starts really digging into the draft.

[theJ]

17 hours ago, sparky151 said:

No, taking Tee and giving our rookie QB a good target was a solid plan. Tee has turned out to be better than some of the guys drafted ahead of him. It's possible Anton Harrison turns out to be a better player than Paris Johnson or Broderick Jones or Dawand Jones or Darnell Wright. But I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Dawand Jones is throwing up some serious red flags.  Smart money is on him not being taken until later in the 2nd round now.

[theJ]

And by that i mean skipping all the testing at his pro day.  He seriously hurt himself doing that.  Now there's rumors floating around that he's over 400 lbs, and GM's are rightly going to think that he knew he was going to test poorly so he just skipped it.  Not a great look.

[INbengalfan]

2 minutes ago, theJ said:

Dawand Jones is throwing up some serious red flags.  Smart money is on him not being taken until later in the 2nd round now.

Sounds like a certain LT we may now have on the roster.  And I'm fine with that.  It also opens up the possibility that we can go TE at 28 more if he or Freeland look like they will be there at 60.  CB and DT too.  If we can coax a mid to late round 2 pick for Jonah, we can do some damage on day two for the roster for sure.  

[theJ]

Just now, INbengalfan said:

Sounds like a certain LT we may now have on the roster.  And I'm fine with that.  It also opens up the possibility that we can go TE at 28 more if he or Freeland look like they will be there at 60.  CB and DT too.  If we can coax a mid to late round 2 pick for Jonah, we can do some damage on day two for the roster for sure.  

The Bengals do love to draft tackles that don't test or test poorly.  It's their MO.  

It's also been disastrous lol.  The track record of tackles that don't test or test poorly is really bad.  I'd prefer to stay away from Jones now, even in the second round.  

Meta data around the draft has advanced significantly over the last 5 years or so, and there's some serious correlations both good and bad with certain production and athletic testing profiles.  Moving toward a system that eliminates some prospects from the pool or at least drops their grade significantly due to those profiles is just smart at this point.  

Whether that means Jones is draftable at the end of the 2nd I don't know.  But he really scares me, and the Bengals need to nail rounds 1-3 to make up what they lost in FA and fill their gaps.

[theJ]

Also, yeah Orlando Brown Jr tested really bad.  And because of that, he went in round 3.  Might be the right place for Jones now.

[INbengalfan]

2 minutes ago, theJ said:

The Bengals do love to draft tackles that don't test or test poorly.  It's their MO.  

It's also been disastrous lol.  The track record of tackles that don't test or test poorly is really bad.  I'd prefer to stay away from Jones now, even in the second round.  

Meta data around the draft has advanced significantly over the last 5 years or so, and there's some serious correlations both good and bad with certain production and athletic testing profiles.  Moving toward a system that eliminates some prospects from the pool or at least drops their grade significantly due to those profiles is just smart at this point.  

Whether that means Jones is draftable at the end of the 2nd I don't know.  But he really scares me, and the Bengals need to nail rounds 1-3 to make up what they lost in FA and fill their gaps.

Andre Smith worked out fine for us though (I'm not considering value on the pick spent).  OBJr did quite well for himself as well.  Bobby Williams was a bad man.  

 

Ogbuehi was considered athletic.  So was Fisher.  They sucked.  Price was a plodder.