What does Sean do now?

[Broncofan]

8 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Their talent at corner ranged from horrible to below average. He’s getting a massive personnel upgrade there. 

Yeah, to be fair, losing your top 3 CB's is bad in any circumstance - and those 3 weren't elite by any means (so being down to #4 & lower starting is a pretty awful group).   I can give Joseph a pass for 2022.   It's just that his best year was also one in which the talent brought in was pretty special.     If I'm not going to hammer him for 2022 because of the talent gap that was there (and it's very legit), the flip side is his best year had a lot to do with some near-elite talent upgrades from 2019 to 2020.

But overall, I think we have to be careful not to overreact to VJ's horrific stint as a HC.   Wade Phillips is obviously the dream (horrible HC, amazing DC)   VJ could be an effective DC - but I think it's fair to say he's got flaws (run D / TE pass coverage, I'll keep hammering these 2 areas to look for).    But he has enough success that we shouldn't be writing him off.   It's just unfortunate that he's following a near-to-full-on-elite DC in Evero.

For the record, I think Kris Richard has even bigger Q's, and I don't trust Rex Ryan to be up to speed with today's game after such a long layoff.    Matt Patricia shouldn't even get any mention, it's that bad.   At worst, I think this was the #2 hire in this cycle for the choices we had.

Ultimately, I think the Q will be whether Desai or VJ was the better choice.    If Desai gets the PHI job, they'll both have talent to work with.  Will be interesting to see how it goes down if that's the case.  If PHI passes on Desai, then there's probably the same reasons Paton & Payton passed as well.     

I can see 1 other logical reason to interview Patricia - it pretty much made VJ a far more appealing choice lol.    

Edited February 23, 2023 by Broncofan

[BroncoBruin]

1 minute ago, AKRNA said:

That to me is the greatest cause of concern. VJ isn't going to be getting a greatly talented cast, just an extremely well coached one. Relying on talent alone I think it's quite possible we suffer a huge drop in defensive production next year.

Pending free agent moves, I’m a lot more bullish on the talent than you are. Surtain and Simmons are elite players on the back end and I like the upside of Mathis and the young safeties. The LBs are fine if a little athletically limited but even great athletes at LB struggle in coverage. Jewell and Singleton both have great instincts though (remains to be seen if Singleton will come back) and Griffith gives you a playable starter behind them. Love what DJ Jones brings as a NT, need another body or two and we’ll see if Dre’Mont is back.

My biggest concern is not having a known quantity at edge rusher. We’ve seen flashes of greatness from Gregory and Browning but neither have put it together in a full season. 

[Broncofan]

12 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Are we sure he’s the OC? Heard Anthony Lynn might be in play. 

There are no guarantees Lombardi's the OC.   Lynn, or Ronald Curry might end up coming as OC.   My preference is Curry for the ceiling (because it then means if he's successful, leaving in 2-3 years to be a HC is in play - Lynn & Lombardi should never sniff that type of promotion).    The reality is that it's Payton's show, this is all supporting cast (but in that event, give me the guy who can rise and get HC consideration, if it helps us comp-pick wise down the line).

Honestly, the main hires on O that Payton won't influence directly are the OL / TE guys, also crucial because of how much we've struggled in both areas since our heyday.   The OC/QBC's are going to be working directly under Payton with very little power.  I don't worry nearly as much as who it is, more looking for opportunities for org growth/ceiling down the line.  The D hires, on the other hand, have way more variability into the outcome.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Broncofan

[BroncoBruin]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

There are no guarantees Lombardi's the OC.   Lynn, or Ronald Curry might end up coming as OC.   My preference is Curry for the ceiling (because it then means if he's successful, leaving in 2-3 years to be a HC is in play - Lynn & Lombardi should never sniff that type of promotion).    The reality is that it's Payton's show, this is all supporting cast (but in that event, give me the guy who can rise and get HC consideration, if it helps us comp-pick wise down the line).

Honestly, the main hires on O are the OL / TE guys.   Because of how much we've struggled since our heyday.   The OC/QBC's are going to be working directly under Payton with very little power.  I don't worry nearly as much as who it is, more looking for opportunities for org growth/ceiling down the line.

FWIW it was already announced Curry’s going back to New Orleans. He seemed to be the Plan A here but Carmichael is probably on the hot seat in NO this year so it makes sense for Curry to stay put.

[AnAngryAmerican]

14 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Are we sure he’s the OC? Heard Anthony Lynn might be in play. 

Looks like I jumped the gun thinking he’d be OC, but he’s on the staff in one way or another. 

[Broncofan]

Just now, BroncoBruin said:

FWIW it was already announced Curry’s going back to New Orleans. He seemed to be the Plan A here but Carmichael is probably on the hot seat in NO this year so it makes sense for Curry to stay put.

Damn, that's too bad.   Curry & Roushar were the 2 guys I would have loved to join us from the O side (Strief isn't bad, but Roushar run game / TE development chops made him a great choice).   I get it though - Curry has a real shot to take over from Carmichael and run the O.   And Roushar stayed in the NO area with Tulane.  

[broncos67]

At this point, I'm just enjoying the circus. I don't think Vance is a good hire for a number of reasons. The patience from the fans is going to be extremely short given he was already fired here once, the team stunk when he was here, and now he's inheriting an already very good D and could well screw it up.

I'm glad it's not Patricia or Rex Ryan I guess. I'd like to have seen someone else. 

At the end of the day, it all hinges on Payton anyway, so if he can't fix the offense the DC ain't gonna make a difference the way it really hasn't since SB 50.

[BroncoBruin]

Really liking the defensive staff with the addition of Manusky + keeping Parker and Dixon. Good mix of experience and youth.

[Broncofan]

53 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Really liking the defensive staff with the addition of Manusky + keeping Parker and Dixon. Good mix of experience and youth.

I also far prefer grooming young guys who can grow than recycle hires - if you have enough mentors / experience in key spots.   
 

In that vein - I’m intrigued by the Davis Webb hire as QBC.   Obv it’s Payton who’s going to address Russell Wilson.   So this is about developing him in the future.    
 

 

[Broncofan]

4 hours ago, Broncofan said:

I also far prefer grooming young guys who can grow than recycle hires - if you have enough mentors / experience in key spots.   
 

In that vein - I’m intrigued by the Davis Webb hire as QBC.   Obv it’s Payton who’s going to address Russell Wilson.   So this is about developing him in the future.    
 

 

To add to the Webb hire - Payton goes and hires Chris Banjo literally the day after he retires to be assistant STC.  

 

 

Given the experience they have at ST and on the O side, I really do like the young/established mix idea.   It's the only way to really develop talent without having the risks of complete disaster (like we saw with Hackett bringing "his guys" with no real established coaching mentors for key positions like OL, ST's, and that farce of a game management guy who Rosburg replaced early on).    There's no guarantee these moves work out, but again, I much prefer this to the recycled, zero-growth hires teams get trapped into making...that seldom work out.

[lomaxgrUK]

I think as fans we can offer an educated opinion on Playcallers, because you can tangibly see what they have to offer.

I don't, however, feel we can do the same for position Coaches really. The fact is, we don't know if any positive results of that position are down to quality talent, and we don't know if any negative results are down to poor talent/poor attitude.

It's a little different when they've been in your own program for a while because we hear enough about them and we see the results every game. But for us to comment on new Coaches from other teams and be like, "this is a great hire just look at such and such a player, he has got really good" or the opposite just feels like a bit of a punt to me really.

 

[jsthomp2007]

Maybe VJ won't pass his physical?  

[AKRNA]

7 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I think as fans we can offer an educated opinion on Playcallers, because you can tangibly see what they have to offer.

I don't, however, feel we can do the same for position Coaches really. The fact is, we don't know if any positive results of that position are down to quality talent, and we don't know if any negative results are down to poor talent/poor attitude.

It's a little different when they've been in your own program for a while because we hear enough about them and we see the results every game. But for us to comment on new Coaches from other teams and be like, "this is a great hire just look at such and such a player, he has got really good" or the opposite just feels like a bit of a punt to me really.

 

Those are good points. It'll be mid season before we've got a good idea on position coaches. I'm just waiting for them to flesh out the website so we can see who's been hired.

[Broncofan]

With the rash of soft tissue injuries we experienced in the last several years it will be interesting to see if the change in training staff / conditioning coaches makes a difference.    While injuries like ACL & high-ankle sprains / shoulder dislocations are impact injuries, you can't do much about - soft tissue injuries always raise the Q on how good the team  stretching / flexibility training regimens are.    Don't think it can hurt to bring in a guy like Lowery at all.

 

 

[BroncoBruin]