thebestever6 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Vance Joseph is having the time of his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizmo78 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Zukhyubern said: It’s Vance 🤦🏻♂️ Smh... I'm so excited for : "Arizona's defense wasn't exactly pristine under Joseph in 2022. Last season, the unit allowed 26.4 points per game (second most in the NFL) and 348.9 yards per game, which ranked in the bottom half of the league. " Edited February 23, 2023 by grizmo78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Vance lololol What a mess. Dude is setup to fail. The fanbase already dislikes him. He's not a particularly good DC. Just incredible stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Hard to put it on VJ for the entire Cardinals franchise imploding this year. They did have top 10 defenses in 2020 and 2021 with pretty average talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbrog24 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 It truly is comical levels of fail at this point...to the level where it makes me feel like management is trolling the fanbase. It's that bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Wow if you had told me 2 months ago that Vance would be our DC I would have bet my 401k against it. I guess I’m more warm towards Vance as a DC than others around here. Is it a home run hire? No. But it’s a good solid double. He’s experienced, should work well with Sean, has exposure to different systems. I don’t hate the hire. From a PR perspective it’s not ideal and Vance is going to be the butt of a lot of jokes but if he can keep the defense as a upper-echelon unit, everyone will get on board pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I’m more ok with this than most, although he wasn’t my first pick by any means. Prior to his head coaching tenure here, he was a very good defensive backs coach in Cincy. So much so, that we tried to hire him as our DC but Cincinnati blocked the move. I think he’ll do good things with PS2 and Simmons. we’ll have to wait and see about the rest. I’ll take him all day over Patricia though; god that would have been horrible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, grizmo78 said: Smh... I'm so excited for : "Arizona's defense wasn't exactly pristine under Joseph in 2022. Last season, the unit allowed 26.4 points per game (second most in the NFL) and 348.9 yards per game, which ranked in the bottom half of the league. " 1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said: Hard to put it on VJ for the entire Cardinals franchise imploding this year. They did have top 10 defenses in 2020 and 2021 with pretty average talent. The context works both ways for Joseph and his ARI time. In 2019 & 2022, ARI was a bottom-half & bottom 10 D by DVOA (20th in 2019, 24th in 2022). In 2020 & 2021, they were 10th and 6th. In 2019, the Cards D roster was really thin - Chandler Jones was still at peak level of play, and Budda Baker was great, but their DL had no difference makers, and their LB/CB starters were unimpressive (Gardecki was a 2nd year guy still as a backup, and Zach Allen was a rookie) In 2020, the Cards added Isiaih Simmons in the draft and Devondre Campbell via FA to upgrade the ILB corps in a massive way, Jordan Phillips for the DL (plus Zach Allen began to play more) and Dre Kirkpatrick to play along Patrick Peterson at starting CB to really upgrade the talent. Joseph enjoyed a lot of success with that top 5 DVOA season, but the D talent upgrade was massive. In 2021, the Cards lost key guys like Campbell, Phillips & Kirkpatrick - but they gained JJ Watt (massive as an interior disruptor, Markus Golden to add some pass rush help to Jones (who was starting to decline), and Zaven Collins / Isiaih Simmons in his 2nd year (as a tweener) in the ILB corps to help offset some of Campbell's play (but didn't do it completely obv). The Cards were a good D, but not as great - but the drop in talent was noticeable. In 2022, the talent just fell apart - the Cards lost their top 3 CB's for a good chunk of the season, JJ Watt missed a bunch of time, Chandler Jones & Devondre Campbell both left (to be fair, Jones looks cooked, but losing Campbell hurt in a big way, and none of the young guys looked good this year). Zach Allen, Budda Baker & Gardeck were the only guys who stood out with JJ Watt. The rest of the D was pretty bad. There's no way VJ should ever sniff a HC spot - his DC work has clearly successful years, but some very mediocre ones. TBH I can't help but shake the feeling his success is tied around the D player talent. I also feel 100x more comfortable with him over Patricia (LOL), and much of the same criticism I'm raising for Joseph applied identically to Kris Richard. It's not that VJ is terrible, or even bad - but he may not be a huge difference maker. Given how young some of our guys are, it's important we get a solid foundation scheme-wise, but also coaching-wise, as we've seen what bad coaching does to our play (and the bump when they're replaced). Time will tell if this was a better choice than Sean Desai, or Kris Richard (I truly doubt Rex Ryan or Matt Patricia find work as DC's anytime soon to compare to). Edited February 23, 2023 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) Two things that stand out in VJ's time in MIA, DEN & ARI as DC/HC - first, the run D has underperformed the pass D by a significant margin almost every year. Given how much we struggled with run D, that's a key area to gauge if VJ has grown as a DC. If we're even just "decent' in run D, it makes our pass D that much more effective. Second, the ARI D was just awful vs. TE's in pass coverage. Obv we were bad in VJ's time here as well. If the news is true that Patricia could be our LB coach...not really hopeful there. If there are 2 obvious areas where we needed to improve - TE (along with RB) pass coverage, and run D. Those 2 areas likely go a long way in deciding VJ's fate as a DJ here. Edited February 23, 2023 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bMiller031 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 There are no homeruns after 4 years of Fangio + Evero. Glad it’s not Rex or Patricia or Richard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizmo78 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 51 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said: Hard to put it on VJ for the entire Cardinals franchise imploding this year. They did have top 10 defenses in 2020 and 2021 with pretty average talent. I was curious so here's what I put together for context of how VJs defenses has done over the years. Cardinals Defensive rankings: In 2022: 31st in Points, 21st in Yards In 2021: 11th in Points, 11th in Yards In 2020: 12th in Points, 13th in Yards In 2019: 28th in Points, 32nd in Yards In 2018 (Before VJ for context): 26th in Points, 20th in Yards Broncos Defensive Rankings (surrounding VJ): 2019 (Denver Defense for Context): 10th in Points, 12th in Yards 2018 (VJ as Denver HC): 13th in Points, 22nd in Yards 2017 (VJ as Denver HC): 22nd in Points, 3rd in Yards 2016 (Denver Defense of Context): 4th in Points, 4th in Yards Dolphins Defense (Surrounding VJ): 2017 (Miami Defense as Context): 29th in Points, 16th in Yards 2016 (VJ as DC): 18th in Points, 29th in Yards 2015 (Miami Defense as Context): 19th in Points, 25th in Yards In 7 years as a DC/HC, he has: - NEVER had a top 10 defense - Had a top 15 defense in points 3/7 years and in yards 3/7 years - Had a bottom 10 defense in points 3/7 years and in yards 3/7 years (4/7 years if you make it bottom 11) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) This was already mentioned before as likely, but VJ's hiring comes along with confirmation that Marcus Dixon & Christian Parker are retained. Edited February 23, 2023 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizmo78 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 25 minutes ago, Broncofan said: This was already mentioned before as likely, but VJ's hiring comes along with confirmation that Marcus Dixon & Christian Parker are retained. That’s great news. The bad news? Apparently Patricia is going to be our linebackers coach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 minute ago, grizmo78 said: That’s great news. The bad news? Apparently Patricia is going to be our linebackers coach. I don’t want that man anywhere near this franchise. Foolish hire in any capacity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copeland Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, 1234567 said: I don’t want that man anywhere near this franchise. Foolish hire in any capacity. I have to agree. I’ll just say that Patricia’s role with the Patriots since coming back has been head scratching, to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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