Commanders select Emmanuel Forbes, CB, Mississippi State with the #16 pick

[Slappy Mc]

I would keep Fuller and St. Juste outside and put Forbes in the slot. He has enough speed to keep up with speedy slot WRs and he does his best work reading at the line of scrimmage. We are notorious for keeping our outside CBs 7-10 yards off the line of scrimmage. Keeping the starting CBs from last year will keep continuity and playbook/play-style understanding outside.

[turtle28]

Forbes’s pick 6 on Will Levis

[Jeezy Fanatic]

Seems like a bust. 

[THESKINSFAN21]

Fred Smoot said that Forbes is 172 lbs. Smoot said Forbes is a better version of Smoot. I didn't realize Fred was 173 lbs when he came in the league. 

[Slappy Mc]

1 hour ago, THESKINSFAN21 said:

Fred Smoot said that Forbes is 172 lbs. Smoot said Forbes is a better version of Smoot. I didn't realize Fred was 173 lbs when he came in the league. 

He claims to be up to 180 lbs now. Still beanpole thin IMO, but we don't play press man anyway so I don't think its that important.

[Troublez]

On 4/28/2023 at 2:52 PM, MikeT14 said:

I am still trying to talk myself into this pick but I can't. This was not the CB I saw as a fit for us. 

How so? Everyone is saying he is the PERFECT fit for us.... 

(1) experience in zone, especially zone match which is what JDR requires in his scheme 

(2) great hands

(3) extremely high character guy

I am hearing so much hate on this pick and it's just baffling. Christian Gonzo was a sh**** Cornerback in the PAC12, he just looked good doing it. Everyone is obsessed with someone who averaged a 73% qb passer rating when targeted... that's abysmal. 
 

[RSkinGM]

7 minutes ago, Troublez said:

How so? Everyone is saying he is the PERFECT fit for us.... 

(1) experience in zone, especially zone match which is what JDR requires in his scheme 

(2) great hands

(3) extremely high character guy

I am hearing so much hate on this pick and it's just baffling. Christian Gonzo was a sh**** Cornerback in the PAC12, he just looked good doing it. Everyone is obsessed with someone who averaged a 73% qb passer rating when targeted... that's abysmal. 
 

AND, 4.35 speed ! He just wasn't a name we heard pre draft, or I didn't. 

[MikeT14]

19 hours ago, THESKINSFAN21 said:

Fred Smoot said that Forbes is 172 lbs. Smoot said Forbes is a better version of Smoot. I didn't realize Fred was 173 lbs when he came in the league. 

 

[e16bball]

2 hours ago, Troublez said:

How so? Everyone is saying he is the PERFECT fit for us.... 

(1) experience in zone, especially zone match which is what JDR requires in his scheme 

(2) great hands

(3) extremely high character guy

I am hearing so much hate on this pick and it's just baffling. Christian Gonzo was a sh**** Cornerback in the PAC12, he just looked good doing it. Everyone is obsessed with someone who averaged a 73% qb passer rating when targeted... that's abysmal. 
 

I’m not real mad at the Forbes pick, but I do think your take on Gonzalez is a little bit off the mark. I’m not exactly sure what metric you’re citing, but it’s clear what his trajectory has been — average at best player with Colorado for two years, pretty damn good player with Oregon this year when the ball skills caught up with the feet.

But more to the point, with CBs in this age of football (more and more each year, it seems), you’re not scouting to figure out who was the best player in college. The projection of the traits has become more and more the key, I think because the offenses/passing schemes in college just don’t ask the same questions of CBs that you’re required to answer in the pros.

The approach nowadays seems to be to get the tools and teach the technique. Tariq Woolen is the obvious example of this, but so many of the best guys in recent years fit that same mold: speed, size, long arms, movement skills. Sauce, Terrell, Jamel Dean, Lattimore, Humphrey, Ramsey, etc. Gonzalez has all those physical parameters locked down to a T, and he doesn’t turn 21 until late June. There’s so much to develop there. 

If you’re asking which player I would have taken to be my corner on a 2022 college football team, I would have taken Forbes. But the spindly frame is a legitimate problem. He’s zero percentile in weight, despite actually being tall for the position.

No one has really ever been that skinny and succeeded as a defender in the modern NFL. The Giants had a rookie named Cordale Flott last season who pretty much shares Forbes’s dimensions, looks like they took him in the 3rd. He was okay. He seems to be the only actual comp that exists since 2000. I’m skeptical that he’ll be able to add/keep much weight, so I’m hopeful that he can be a unicorn. But that’s basically what you’re gambling on with our guy.

[Troublez]

8 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I’m not real mad at the Forbes pick, but I do think your take on Gonzalez is a little bit off the mark. I’m not exactly sure what metric you’re citing, but it’s clear what his trajectory has been — average at best player with Colorado for two years, pretty damn good player with Oregon this year when the ball skills caught up with the feet.

But more to the point, with CBs in this age of football (more and more each year, it seems), you’re not scouting to figure out who was the best player in college. The projection of the traits has become more and more the key, I think because the offenses/passing schemes in college just don’t ask the same questions of CBs that you’re required to answer in the pros.

The approach nowadays seems to be to get the tools and teach the technique. Tariq Woolen is the obvious example of this, but so many of the best guys in recent years fit that same mold: speed, size, long arms, movement skills. Sauce, Terrell, Jamel Dean, Lattimore, Humphrey, Ramsey, etc. Gonzalez has all those physical parameters locked down to a T, and he doesn’t turn 21 until late June. There’s so much to develop there. 

If you’re asking which player I would have taken to be my corner on a 2022 college football team, I would have taken Forbes. But the spindly frame is a legitimate problem. He’s zero percentile in weight, despite actually being tall for the position.

No one has really ever been that skinny and succeeded as a defender in the modern NFL. The Giants had a rookie named Cordale Flott last season who pretty much shares Forbes’s dimensions, looks like they took him in the 3rd. He was okay. He seems to be the only actual comp that exists since 2000. I’m skeptical that he’ll be able to add/keep much weight, so I’m hopeful that he can be a unicorn. But that’s basically what you’re gambling on with our guy.

Forbes is longer faster and smarter. What traits are you projecting? 

[e16bball]

13 minutes ago, Troublez said:

Forbes is longer faster and smarter. What traits are you projecting? 

I’m including size in my projection, obviously. As well as youth and explosion/burst, but in this instance, it’s mostly just pure size.

When one player can basically match another in speed and movement skills and explosion, despite being substantially bigger, the obvious preference goes to the bigger guy. I was much more interested, say, in Jamarr Chase running a 4.35 with crazy explosion and agility scores at 200 pounds than I was in Calvin Austin doing the same at 170.

It’s sort of like we’re just talking around the point of size here. I don’t think it’s an absolute disqualifier like some seem to. But it’s obviously an issue, and it’s odd that we’re talking about all this other stuff when it’s the (emaciated) elephant in the room. He’s not just slender — he’s  historically skinny. Samari Rolle was 6’0 and 175 pounds, and he’s the only player even close to Forbes’s height/weight to be a long-term defensive starter in the last 30 years.

[ripsean21]

We passed on my 2nd pick which as E has said has a lot to do with traits because I value size speed and movement. Forbes was my 4th best and doing alittle more digging in really upset with my scouts on this guy because this is exactly the skillset I usually hit on. Plays the ball like he’s a WR while baiting the QB with his position and is comfortable in every technique. He is small but as a smaller guy who played the position he has the juice and mental it takes to be smaller and not get ran on all game. He will mature his body and honestly if it wasn’t for his game against Devanta Smith honestly I think I may have held alittle too much against Forbes for going against one of the most advanced route guys I’ve ever scouted. This is one of the best skill sets we’ve had at this position in longer than I can even remember I’d say probably since Champ or Springs. I’m excited to see this guy I believe we struck gold again 2 years in a row with our top pick. If this guy weighs 180 at the combine I’d say he’s everyone’s consensus 1 because his ball skills and shadow and trail are all blue chip level. He needs too work on a few things but I have too say my biggest note on him was doesn’t get caught the same way twice and makes QB’s pay the second time they try to cheat him. Welcome Forbes

[MKnight82]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/37461056/key-intel-all-32-teams-2023-nfl-draft-buzz-depth-chart-fits-team-needs-next 

"The Cowboys were closely watching Mississippi State corner Emmanuel Forbes, who went No. 16 overall to Washington."

 

Apparently Dallas wanted Forbes. 

[ripsean21]

3 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/37461056/key-intel-all-32-teams-2023-nfl-draft-buzz-depth-chart-fits-team-needs-next 

"The Cowboys were closely watching Mississippi State corner Emmanuel Forbes, who went No. 16 overall to Washington."

 

Apparently Dallas wanted Forbes. 

Because that’s a Dan Quinn prototype CB for how he runs his defense. Forbes has shown improvement on tape. He struggled against Devanta Smith but all the lapses are coaching points and simply cheating positions on the field against a guy who will burn you up every time you cheat. He competes. I actually think his best tape is against the burner type players. The quick shifty ones he has moments and improves as he gets settled in. So as a rookie he’s going to take a few lumps as most do. But I believe where this guys going to show his real value is each time he plays against a team the second go round. I believe once he gets action and dysects the tape against divisional teams he will show every matchup after he’s a force because he learns from players the second and third time they show something he has a great memeory of tendacies guys show.

[ARTMONK HOF]

5 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

Because that’s a Dan Quinn prototype CB for how he runs his defense. Forbes has shown improvement on tape. He struggled against Devanta Smith but all the lapses are coaching points and simply cheating positions on the field against a guy who will burn you up every time you cheat. He competes. I actually think his best tape is against the burner type players. The quick shifty ones he has moments and improves as he gets settled in. So as a rookie he’s going to take a few lumps as most do. But I believe where this guys going to show his real value is each time he plays against a team the second go round. I believe once he gets action and dysects the tape against divisional teams he will show every matchup after he’s a force because he learns from players the second and third time they show something he has a great memeory of tendacies guys show.

That was I believe when he was a freshman and improved each year. He competes.