Kiwibrown Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said: I asked a former coordinator for Northwestern about this problem. He gave an example for one of his own players--Justin Jackson. Jackson had over 2,000 carries before turning pro with him in high school and college. Doesn't include the damage done from grade 2 until high school. They're just broken by the time the get pro. And no, no one needs to do anything about it. Players are confusing production and fame with value. Being the guy carrying the rock is only as important as all the blocking. Even though they get statistics, they aren't the one earning them as often as they think. When a players legs go that is it. Watching Karem Hunt and Nick Chubb closely Hunts running style was always going to wear faster. For a runningback Chubb doesn't take a lot of shots, where as Hunt threw himself into tackles and often hyper extended his knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 On 6/19/2023 at 2:22 PM, Jakuvious said: They need to shift their benchmarks, basically. Same as they need to raise the standards from a bulk stat perspective for QBs, they'll need to lower it for RBs. Open up to the idea of guys like Marshawn Lynch, Jamaal Charles, Derrick Henry (assuming he winds down soon), Nick Chubb, CMC with another 2 or 3 years, etc. I always had Marshawn Lynch as a guy who'd get in, given his role on that Seattle offense and the "beastmode" run. People talk about the story of the NFL as a consideration for the Hall, and you really can't talk about turn of the century football without thinking of Lynch tossing about 16 different Saints around, on his way to the end zone... To your point of changing the benchmarks - I've always been a proponent of narrative driven over stat sheets. I'm good with Namath and Swann being in, simply because the narratives exceed the stats by a wide margin (it's also a reason I think Eli Manning makes it one day). RBs should be graded on a similar narrative - Frank Gore has yardage and stat sheet items, but who do you remember more? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 On 6/10/2023 at 11:27 PM, NudeTayne said: Dalvin will likely sign soon. The other two will probably sign once someone gets hurt. I'm a little surprised he is still unemployed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Pugger said: I'm a little surprised he is still unemployed. I still think he signs before the season starts since he is expected to start wherever he goes, but yeah, this is a bit odd. Perhaps he's rehabbing some dings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 I bet Dalvin is asking for 10+ mil He wants one last payday understandably 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 On 7/8/2023 at 7:41 PM, Kiwibrown said: There isnt room for a former great runningback to pound away at 3.7-4 ypc and sell some tickets like Emmitt in Arizona Blinks in James Conner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the gap between the best RB in the NFL and a few guys in the middle isn't large when you just look at production. If I'm a GM, I can't tie up my cap space into the best RB in the NFL (Saquon) when I can bring in guys for cheap who can put out 75-85% of the production at a fraction of the cost. It's partially due to how the game is played, partially due to the overall talent level of athletes in today's era of sports. Saquon 4.6 YPC last season. 1st round pick, in his prime, and ready to reset the market. $10Mil cap hit D'Onta Foreman 4.5 YPC last season. Just trying to stay in the league. 3rd round pick. $2Mil cap hit Tyler Allgeier 4.9 YPC last season. 5th round pick. $870K cap hit. Point is....learn a different position or form your own union. Proposal: Allow RB's cap hit to be reduced to 50% against the cap. Pay them the $10+Mil per year but it only counts as $5M as a positional exception. Everyone gets what they want. The top guys will get paid what they deserve and the teams will be incentivized to pay them knowing it wouldnt inhibit them from building out a better roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 25 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: Proposal: Allow RB's cap hit to be reduced to 50% against the cap. Pay them the $10+Mil per year but it only counts as $5M as a positional exception. Everyone gets what they want. The top guys will get paid what they deserve and the teams will be incentivized to pay them knowing it wouldnt inhibit them from building out a better roster. Where does the $5M that isn't charged to the cap come from? Why would safties/ TE/ centers be happy with that proposal? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 4 hours ago, squire12 said: Where does the $5M that isn't charged to the cap come from? Why would safties/ TE/ centers be happy with that proposal? They receive the salary. The cap figure is manipulated. It's gone. It's in neverland. S/TE/C (and LB) arent in a thread about the running back market being brutal. This is a band aid until the next CBA, but it prevents a RB union thats been floated. Other positions would follow suit as you pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 4 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: They receive the salary. The cap figure is manipulated. It's gone. It's in neverland. S/TE/C (and LB) arent in a thread about the running back market being brutal. This is a band aid until the next CBA, but it prevents a RB union thats been floated. Other positions would follow suit as you pointed out. So who is paying the money that is not charged to the salary cap? The NFLPA? The owners? The fans that fell that RB's deserve more money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 4 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: They receive the salary. The cap figure is manipulated. It's gone. It's in neverland. S/TE/C (and LB) arent in a thread about the running back market being brutal. This is a band aid until the next CBA, but it prevents a RB union thats been floated. Other positions would follow suit as you pointed out. The trouble with this idea, is the cap figure doesn't just come out of nowhere. It's collectively bargained and based off of ensuring the players get a specific portion of overall league revenue. That percentage is set when both sides agree to the CBA, so adding something like this is inevitably going to move that percentage one way or another, and neither side is ever going to agree to do that. Either the non-RB players are taking less to set aside more money for RBs, or the teams themselves are taking less by spending more than the negotiated percentage. Neither would ever happen. And it couldn't happen until the next CBA negotiation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 9 hours ago, Jakuvious said: The trouble with this idea, is the cap figure doesn't just come out of nowhere. It's collectively bargained and based off of ensuring the players get a specific portion of overall league revenue. That percentage is set when both sides agree to the CBA, so adding something like this is inevitably going to move that percentage one way or another, and neither side is ever going to agree to do that. Either the non-RB players are taking less to set aside more money for RBs, or the teams themselves are taking less by spending more than the negotiated percentage. Neither would ever happen. And it couldn't happen until the next CBA negotiation. This will get boring, but bare with me. I spent too much time going through this damn CBA. Currently, nothing exists in the current CBA that would account for this. You are correct. However, existing articles/section have the flexibility to account for additional AR (All Revenues) and if the teams agree to increasing the percentages, it could be done with nothing out of their EXISTING pockets. The NFL/NFLPA knew sports betting was going to be thing even in 2020, but I doubt the expected this magnitude, this quickly. So let's focus on that piece of the pie. Article 11 Section 2 Additional Salary Cap Room (summation): If the Clubs Player Cost Amount is less than 48.5% of Projected AR for the 2021 League Year, each Club may elect to receive a credit to Team Salary not to exceed: the difference between A. Baseline Player Cost Amount calculated at 48.5% and the Player Cost Amount for the 2021 League Year divided by the number of Clubs. Example: A Club can receive $2Mil to be offset in the 2024 League Year OR $1Mil in 2025 and $1Mil in 2026. Analysis: Teams can bank money if they are staying under 48.5% of the Projected AR and spread it over future years. You can, theoretically, used this banked money to account for the 50% difference I reference above. Players get paid out of that banked allotment, but the cap would unimpacted by this figure. The big factor in this would be increasing that 48.5% number to something more reasonable (49.5-50.5). It would be at the Clubs justification if they choose to use their banked money on a RB, TE, LB, C. i.e. whichever player/position deserves to be paid more but their cap hit would hinder the team from building out a roster because they spent on an undervalued position. So where does the justification/money come for additional revenue to increase 48.5 to 49.5-50.5? Article 12 Section 1 (B) For Gambling Revenues generated by operation of gambling-related businesses near an NFL Stadium, including revenue from non-football gambling (e.g., revenues from slot machines), all revenue received or to be received by a Club or Club Affiliate (or the NFL or any NFL-related entity) during the season (e.g., rent payment or other payment to the Club, but in no event to include any gambling revenues received by the unrelated entity) will be included in AR; for Gambling Revenues generated near such an NFL Stadium during the offseason, only thirty-three percent (33%) of revenue actually received by the Club or Club Affiliate (or the NFL or any NFL-related entity) will be included in AR. Analysis: Bump this number up to 50% or more. Each team with legalized gambling in their state should be require to establish a sportsbook at their respective stadiums to increase revenues. None of the other revenue sources (tickets, merchandise, TV deals) are to be touched. Owners lose nothing from those major sources of income. I just provided a way to increase AR and disperse those funds across the entire league to account for this cap manipulation without impacting the owners bottom line while working within the confines of the existing CBA. https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/NFLPA/CBA2020/NFL-NFLPA_CBA_March_5_2020.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 (edited) On 6/11/2023 at 8:34 AM, 43M said: I think the RB position should have a different set of rules applied since they are workhorses who get used up and discarded quickly, and usually having a much shorter shelf life than other positions. It isnt fair to that position. I know some people will scoff at the "fair" part, but I think you need to incentivize playing that position a bit more. I think making rookie contracts for RBs shorter would help. 2 year contracts....with 3rd year option for 1st rounders. Also, perhaps making RBs drafted early higher paid out the gate. I just get annoyed....because thats what Tomlin and the Steelers do with RBs. They ran Bell into the ground, and will do the same thing with Najee. Najee is nothing special, but in general, RBs are used and abused early on, and unless they are special, dumped for a newer and cheaper model after their rookie deals. These guys are still getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. They know what the deal is, nobody is forcing them to play. Edited July 13, 2023 by StatKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 This popped up on ESPN. Long read, but it kinda summarizes this thread: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/37985469/why-star-nfl-running-backs-devalued-next-2023-free-agency-future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 49 minutes ago, StatKing said: These guys are still getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. They know what the deal is, nobody is forcing them to play. Thanks for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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