Sugashane Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Superduperman said: The all time losing franchise But if the Lions ever become winners people will dig back into their early history, a foundational franchise in the league, invented the Thanksgiving game, had some of the game's biggest stars in the pre-TV era Something for you and @Louis Friend to enjoy, as the Bears have the worst QB history in the league, it started back with Halas himself. They actually have benefited the Lions as Halas let Bobby Layne walk (who had multiple MVPs for the Lions) but also let George Blanda off the hook too. Blanda of course had an MVP year and won several championships after joining the Oilers. Halas didn't think he could hack it as a QB and let Layne go because they had Luckman (who only started 2 games after Layne left. They actually had Sid Luckman, Bobby Layne, and George Blanda all within a 2 year span but ended up banking on Johnny Lujack over Blanda or Layne. Halas was an ******* who wouldn't negotiate with Lujack while he was on vacation even knowing he had a job offer to be an assistant coach at Notre Dame. So Lujack flipped Halas the bird by retiring and taking that job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 The Eagles have the only NFL logo, that faces Left! 🥃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Bengals only really unique thing is the helmet design. It's just set apart from the other 31 teams' designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 On 6/30/2023 at 11:05 AM, Packerraymond said: I'm an owner of the team. Me too. I inherited the share my grandfather purchased back in 1950. That single share is now worth 1000 votes at the annual shareholders' meeting held every summer right before training camp begins. This ownership situation is what makes the Packers unique not just on the NFL but in all of sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 5:23 PM, AngusMcFife said: By the mid-2010s Pittsburgh was an offensive team with a mediocre D. The Ravens have been a defensive-oriented team since 1999 and have put up good to great defenses every years aside from injury decimation (2015, 2021, 2012 if counting the regular season only). Since 99... Defensive Rankings >>>>Steelers - Ravens 99 - 12 - 6 00 - 6 - 1 01 - 3 - 4 02 - 16 - 19 03 - 16 - 6 04 - 1 - 6 05 - 3 - 10 06 - 11 - 1 07 - 2 - 23 08 - 1 - 3 09 - 13 - 3 10 - 1 - 3 11 - 1 - 3 12 - 6 - 12 13 - 14 - 12 14 - 16 - 6 15 - 11 -24 16 - 10 - 9 17 - 7 -6 18 - 17 - 2 19 - 6 - 3 20 - 3 -2 21 - 19 - 20 22 - 10 - 3 In the time frame you specified, the Steelers and Ravens have been neck and neck, and as far as the "By the mid-2010s Pittsburgh was an offensive team with a mediocre D", outside of 14 and 18, the Ravens D was not significantly better in that time frame. We had several good defenses under Keith Butler during those years. No, they werent on level with their 2000's defenses, but neither were the Ravens. And you can make the injury excuse all you want, but there were several seasons where the Steelers defenses were affected by injuries too. Bottom line is, the Ravens defense has not been on their own level, as you seem to be claiming. The Steelers have been right on par with them. Would I give the edge to the Ravens defenses overall? Without doing a deep dive...probably, but its not a notable gap. Both teams have had many dominant years and a few down years, but most years, they were very close to each other, including since the mid 2010s. despite your claims to the contrary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Patrick Mahomes. And our team's QB history in general, honestly. I want to say Bill Kenney had the most career wins of any Chiefs drafted QB prior to Mahomes coming around. And he's already almost doubled that. We basically spent like 55 years barely even trying to draft a QB, let alone succeeding, and then bam, Mahomes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_shadows Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Legendary ineptitude and quite possibly the most annoying TD celebration song in the history of sports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 13 hours ago, 43M said: Since 99... Defensive Rankings >>>>Steelers - Ravens 99 - 12 - 6 00 - 6 - 1 01 - 3 - 4 02 - 16 - 19 03 - 16 - 6 04 - 1 - 6 05 - 3 - 10 06 - 11 - 1 07 - 2 - 23 08 - 1 - 3 09 - 13 - 3 10 - 1 - 3 11 - 1 - 3 12 - 6 - 12 13 - 14 - 12 14 - 16 - 6 15 - 11 -24 16 - 10 - 9 17 - 7 -6 18 - 17 - 2 19 - 6 - 3 20 - 3 -2 21 - 19 - 20 22 - 10 - 3 In the time frame you specified, the Steelers and Ravens have been neck and neck, and as far as the "By the mid-2010s Pittsburgh was an offensive team with a mediocre D", outside of 14 and 18, the Ravens D was not significantly better in that time frame. We had several good defenses under Keith Butler during those years. No, they werent on level with their 2000's defenses, but neither were the Ravens. And you can make the injury excuse all you want, but there were several seasons where the Steelers defenses were affected by injuries too. Bottom line is, the Ravens defense has not been on their own level, as you seem to be claiming. The Steelers have been right on par with them. Would I give the edge to the Ravens defenses overall? Without doing a deep dive...probably, but its not a notable gap. Both teams have had many dominant years and a few down years, but most years, they were very close to each other, including since the mid 2010s. despite your claims to the contrary. I'm not sure which defensive rating you are using, I prefer efficiency ratings like DVOA. Sometimes a good offense can make a defense seem better by holding the ball and depressing counting stats. Let's look at PIT's DVOA from 2012-2018 2012: 12 2013: 23 2014: 30 2015: 12 2016: 11 2017: 9 2018: 14 That's a 7 year stretch in which there is only 1 top-10 defense, and that is barely a top-10 defense at 9th. I watched plenty of their games. The mid-2010s PIT defense was just a mediocre unit. Harrison and Polamalu got old and they didn't find defensive superstars until Watt and Fitzpatrick were in the fold by 2019. The Ravens never had such a mediocre stretch. In fact the only years BAL had defensive DVOA outside the top 10 were 2012, 2015, and 2021, whereas Steelers defense was not top-10 for 6 out of 7 consecutive years. That's a big difference. PIT would definitely be 2nd in terms of best defense from 1999 to the present. But I think it is clear that the team's identity in the mid-2010s was an offensive team that had an ok defense. Whereas the Ravens team identity has been defense-first throughout, even when Lamar won MVP in 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: I'm not sure which defensive rating you are using, I prefer efficiency ratings like DVOA. Sometimes a good offense can make a defense seem better by holding the ball and depressing counting stats. Let's look at PIT's DVOA from 2012-2018 2012: 12 2013: 23 2014: 30 2015: 12 2016: 11 2017: 9 2018: 14 That's a 7 year stretch in which there is only 1 top-10 defense, and that is barely a top-10 defense at 9th. I watched plenty of their games. The mid-2010s PIT defense was just a mediocre unit. Harrison and Polamalu got old and they didn't find defensive superstars until Watt and Fitzpatrick were in the fold by 2019. The Ravens never had such a mediocre stretch. In fact the only years BAL had defensive DVOA outside the top 10 were 2012, 2015, and 2021, whereas Steelers defense was not top-10 for 6 out of 7 consecutive years. That's a big difference. PIT would definitely be 2nd in terms of best defense from 1999 to the present. But I think it is clear that the team's identity in the mid-2010s was an offensive team that had an ok defense. Whereas the Ravens team identity has been defense-first throughout, even when Lamar won MVP in 2019. He used real numbers. DVOA is fine but it is make believe. It projects what ifs. Over a full season or seasons you don't really need what ifs because you have what was. The Ravens are unique because they became what they hated, a franchise stealing city. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 5 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: He used real numbers. DVOA is fine but it is make believe. It projects what ifs. Over a full season or seasons you don't really need what ifs because you have what was. You are completely wrong. DVOA doesn't project at all, it evaluates what happened. Points against and yards are not great at evaluating defense because they are dependent on offense, special teams, and opposing team quality. DVOA narrows the focus down to efficiency per play. I would encourage you to make arguments about things you know about and not about things you clearly don't understand. Quote The Ravens are unique because they became what they hated, a franchise stealing city. Browns got to keep their franchise, Baltimore lost theirs forever. NFL was very generous to Cleveland, very harsh to Baltimore. Be grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said: You are completely wrong. DVOA doesn't project at all, it evaluates what happened. Points against and yards are not great at evaluating defense because they are dependent on offense, special teams, and opposing team quality. DVOA narrows the focus down to efficiency per play. I would encourage you to make arguments about things you know about and not about things you clearly don't understand. It projects averages when you face something other than average so it is made up. 1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said: Browns got to keep their franchise, Baltimore lost theirs forever. NFL was very generous to Cleveland, very harsh to Baltimore. Be grateful. Don't post about stuff you don't know about, the NFL went against it's own rules to allow a broke Modell to get a money grab so he didn't lose his franchise (for a few years). The NFL didn't give Cleveland anything, it was all fought for. Baltimore was just too busy crying to fight back, not enough bulldog in your ancestors to do anything. Cleveland fans were tougher and more passionate and fought to keep everything they could. Meanwhile the Colts still play on Sunday's in Indianapolis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 12 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: It projects averages when you face something other than average so it is made up. Not really understanding this. Feel free to ignore any posts mentioning DVOA in the future. Quote Don't post about stuff you don't know about, the NFL went against it's own rules to allow a broke Modell to get a money grab so he didn't lose his franchise (for a few years). The NFL didn't give Cleveland anything, it was all fought for. Baltimore was just too busy crying to fight back, not enough bulldog in your ancestors to do anything. Cleveland fans were tougher and more passionate and fought to keep everything they could. Meanwhile the Colts still play on Sunday's in Indianapolis. Jack Kent Cooke conspired with Rozelle and Tagliabue to keep teams out of Baltimore to give Redskins more territory. But thanks for revealing yourself as a pure hater, you really believe people in Cleveland are somehow superior than people in Baltimore. Weird world view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 On 7/1/2023 at 12:21 PM, Pugger said: Me too. I inherited the share my grandfather purchased back in 1950. That single share is now worth 1000 votes at the annual shareholders' meeting held every summer right before training camp begins. This ownership situation is what makes the Packers unique not just on the NFL but in all of sports. The real value of this is that the team can never be moved, which means it can't hold the city hostage for some over the top taxpayer funded stadium. I'll make fun of the certificates, but this makes a real difference and is the best reason to be a Packer fan IMO. It's not a unique thing to the Green Bay Packers though, the German soccer league has an even more stringent rule that all teams need to be majority fan-controlled: https://www.bundesliga.com/en/faq/what-are-the-rules-and-regulations-of-soccer/50-1-fifty-plus-one-german-football-soccer-rule-explained-ownership-22832 We really should steal that idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 On 7/2/2023 at 12:09 AM, Jakuvious said: Patrick Mahomes. And our team's QB history in general, honestly. I want to say Bill Kenney had the most career wins of any Chiefs drafted QB prior to Mahomes coming around. And he's already almost doubled that. We basically spent like 55 years barely even trying to draft a QB, let alone succeeding, and then bam, Mahomes. In this same vein, I think it's notable how snake bitten the Chiefs were in the playoffs before Mahomes. They were basically a more successful version of the Browns for years, and then as you said......bam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: you really believe people in Cleveland are somehow superior than people in Baltimore People... maybe maybe not, hard to say but as far as fans, absolutely. One group fought hard enough to get something and the other didn't, they just waited and did the same thing that happened to them to someone else. No respect for that at all. On top of that they defended it, talked about how "lucky" Cleveland fans were and gave themselves some sort of entitlement so that they can talk down to other fanbases while being the most sensitive fans in the league when anyone critiques any of their players. "I took your dog but you can have this ant I found on the ground, consider yourself lucky" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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