Preseason Game 1 - Green Bay @ Cincinnati

[PossibleCabbage]

With Davis' s role on the #1 units being specifically on special teams, I wonder if it's less "A TE" we need to replace him and more "another 6-4 250 athlete".  So you could like keep an extra OLB instead (Brenton Cox is about the same size as Tyler Davis, FWIW.) 

[Brat&Beer]

5 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

With Davis' s role on the #1 units being specifically on special teams, I wonder if it's less "A TE" we need to replace him and more "another 6-4 250 athlete".  So you could like keep an extra OLB instead (Brenton Cox is about the same size as Tyler Davis, FWIW.) 

True, but they only have 3 TE's on the roster (unless you include DeGuara). They'll probably want to add at least one. It shouldn't be that difficult to find a TE after cutdowns who has played ST since most backup TE's probably have played some ST.

[mikebpackfan]

Just got to watch the game last night, it’s always interesting hearing all the hype and then watching, so I’m only gonna mention things that I saw that didn’t match the hype or haven’t seen mentioned much:

-best play that I don’t see talked about much is the Love->Watson 3rd down conversion.  The biggest thing I will be happy having no Rodgers for is the 3rd and short/mediums where he does nothing but look 40 yards downfield.  Let’s just get a new set of downs on a simple out and then look downfield next snap.  

-not really as stoked about Clifford as the consensus has been. So many tight window throws against 2nd stringers, might be PBUs or worse against starters.  I guess it shows great accuracy though?  Not giving up on him but just wasn’t as impressed as all the talk post game. 
 

-what the hell with the run offense in the first half?  Atrocious. Pass protection was great, so we got a bunch of 2nd string OLers that can only pass block or what?

-didn’t always have my eyes on Van Ness, but when I did notice him it was always in a bad way. Particularly on a big run he was way too far upfield. Rookie first preseason so I’ll give him a pass.

-our pass catchers may be young, but they all seem to have such big upside, lots of good impressions all the way down the line: Toure, Wicks, Reed, Heath.  
 

-glad SJC looked like he had a good night.  While he’s never seemed to have that wow play in his time here, I’ve also never noticed in him in a bad way, which is sometimes the best thing you can say about a CB  

-as with all preseason games my interest faded in the the 4th quarter, not much to say.  EmWilson looked nice but history is littered with guys who have huge plays in August getting cut and never being heard from again  

 

[squire12]

QB school breakdown on some plays by Live

 

https://youtu.be/KNg85zTY7aU

[vegas492]

On 8/12/2023 at 9:43 AM, HighCalebR said:

Rasheed on the pull.

@vegas492 getting ammunition for his "Jayden so smol" tirade.

Its pre-season.  Time to see if he can perform well enough to run plays like that when he's on the field.

And?  He isn't big enough or dawg enough for those kinds of plays.

But we have other guys who are, no worries.  Jayden just needs to catch passes and run sweeps.

[vegas492]

My takeaways from the game on Friday night....

THE GOOD

• DVR is a great way to watch pre-season games.  Got to re-watch a lot of stuff.
• Valentine looks to be a great sleeper.  He made the team.
• RB's showing that you don't need to be drafted in order to look good when you have an OL.
• Our OL has a lot of talent behind the starters.
  • JRJ played some center and looked fine.
  • Tom played some center and looked fine.
  • We may have 5 legit tackles.
• Holy Heath!  ...Holy Wicks!  Holy Toure!  Think we are keeping 6.
• Musgrave is a must have.
• Love.  Cool seeing him bounce around back there and let it rip.
• I watched Wyatt enough, not sure we will play him like we did that game, but he sure looks the part of a disruptor inside.
• Slaton was impressive as well.
• Clifford can make this list.

THE BAD

• Clifford makes this list as well.  Not just the INT, which was awful, but for locking in and starting guys down.  Guy sure plays loose.  Guess that is what happens when the team moves on from a generational talent and icon at the position (Ettling).
• LVN.  I watched enough of his stuff.  He didn't really flash like I had hoped.  He had a few moments of getting close based on hustle, but no quickness or speed stood out.  I was hoping for more out of him.
• Newman and Rhyan were "meh" at best.  I thought Rhyan was better than Newman, but each still need to improve, a lot.
• No safety popped to me, either.  And that could be because the camera angle didn't let me watch a lot of them.
• Outside of McDuffie, our backup ILB's are meh.  Wouldn't mind seeing us grab a guy whose started some games in the league and can play specials to be ILB4.

THE UGLY

• We gotta seriously consider going for 2 if extra point kicks are going to look like that.

[craig]

On the Reed block, what is the "pin-down" expectation for a WR blocking 260-pound DL?  

Is "get-in-the-way" kinda the extend of it?  

Was Lazard pushing DL around often?  Probably yes.  But I'm kinda thinking a lot of Lazard's more TV-worthy blocks were on smaller guys.  

[TheEagle]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:16 PM, Brat&Beer said:

Andy Herman's defensive grades. Bad performance by Jonathan Owens. Something to watch this week. 

 

The preseason grades are funny. Owens played like 10 snaps. Pretty hard to gauge anybody on limited snaps. It was interesting that Owens was on several special teams units, and so was Tarvarius Moore. I'm not sure Rudy Ford was on any.

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, craig said:

On the Reed block, what is the "pin-down" expectation for a WR blocking 260-pound DL?  

Is "get-in-the-way" kinda the extend of it?  

Was Lazard pushing DL around often?  Probably yes.  But I'm kinda thinking a lot of Lazard's more TV-worthy blocks were on smaller guys.  

Comparing Reed to Lazard on blocking assignments really isn't a fair comparison.  Lazard is a much bigger man.  For Jayden Reed, anything better than just getting in the the way is great.  I saw a recent photo of Lazard on the Jets, he is built like a speed rusher.  Reed is built more like Greg Jennings.  I don't recall Greg blocking anyone.

[ThatJerkDave]

14 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said:

With Davis' s role on the #1 units being specifically on special teams, I wonder if it's less "A TE" we need to replace him and more "another 6-4 250 athlete".  So you could like keep an extra OLB instead (Brenton Cox is about the same size as Tyler Davis, FWIW.) 

I think you are short selling Davis' improvement and role in the offense this season.  Even in the very short time he was on the field, it was clear that he was the number two TE and also going to be counted on as the best blocker from the position.  He is (was) better than the current version of Tucker Kraft, who will need a while to grow into the NFL.  They are likely going to have to add two guys to play both his role on offense and role on STs.

[ThatJerkDave]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

My takeaways from the game on Friday night....

 

• • We may have 5 legit tackles.
• Newman and Rhyan were "meh" at best.  I thought Rhyan was better than Newman, but each still need to improve, a lot.
• No safety popped to me, either.  And that could be because the camera angle didn't let me watch a lot of them.
• Outside of McDuffie, our backup ILB's are meh.  Wouldn't mind seeing us grab a guy whose started some games in the league and can play specials to be ILB4.

I agree on the tackles.  I don't understand how Nijman didn't get picked up for the second round tender, I really don't.  I think he is a starter at either tackle spot, we just happen to have two better tackles.  I want to keep Walker, I want to keep Jones, and I even want to keep Tenuta if he is not going to IR.

I agree on the guards.  We may be in a world of hurt there if we lose Jenkins or JRJ.  Newman is on the anti-Lane Taylor program.  Seems to get worse and worse every time he plays.

I agree that nobody did anything at safety.  The only 3 plays I recall were:  Owens getting juked out of his shoes, near INT for Johnson, near INT from Sapp.  Oh, I lied, Dallin Leavitt with the tipped INT.  Not what I hoped for, but probably what I should have expected.  Maybe we can get away with having the safeties just playing safe 2 deep, and let the CBs and LBs do the heavy lifting this season?

I think you are short selling Eric Wilson and Tariq Carpenter at our ILB spots.  Not lights out, but they both are positives on special teams, and we are looking at multiple injuries before they see snaps from scrimmage.  McDuffie looks good enough to me to fill-in if he needs to.

[craig]

Not sure how I feel about the Davis stuff.  Yes, he was situated to probably be a better blocker than Kraft.  But it's his 3rd year in the system.  Are teams cutting great-blocking TE's who will instantly be effective?  It's the National Injury League:  you don't always replace injured guys with equivalent replacements.  3 options:

1. Pick up some other released street-FA.  Between talent limits and unfamiliarity with the system, will he actually be any good, and will you trust him?  
2. Next man up, with Kraft and/or Deguara.  What Kraft did in his first 10 snaps in August may not portend what he might hypothetically become capable of by October and January?  
3. Call plays using the talent that you have?  With neither Mercedes nor Davis, maybe you just call less TE-blocker plays and replace them with other plays?  

I sometimes wonder whether crowding the box with run-blockers draws more defenders in, clutters the line, and leaves fewer holes to run through.  Maybe replacing Mercedes + Davis + Lazard with receivers on routes might be more beneficial for Jones and Dillon?  

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I agree on the tackles.  I don't understand how Nijman didn't get picked up for the second round tender, I really don't.  I think he is a starter at either tackle spot, we just happen to have two better tackles.  I want to keep Walker, I want to keep Jones, and I even want to keep Tenuta if he is not going to IR.

I agree on the guards.  We may be in a world of hurt there if we lose Jenkins or JRJ.  Newman is on the anti-Lane Taylor program.  Seems to get worse and worse every time he plays.

I agree that nobody did anything at safety.  The only 3 plays I recall were:  Owens getting juked out of his shoes, near INT for Johnson, near INT from Sapp.  Oh, I lied, Dallin Leavitt with the tipped INT.  Not what I hoped for, but probably what I should have expected.  Maybe we can get away with having the safeties just playing safe 2 deep, and let the CBs and LBs do the heavy lifting this season?

I think you are short selling Eric Wilson and Tariq Carpenter at our ILB spots.  Not lights out, but they both are positives on special teams, and we are looking at multiple injuries before they see snaps from scrimmage.  McDuffie looks good enough to me to fill-in if he needs to.

I thought Wilson looked the part of an ILB, but he didn't do anything to catch my eyes.  Neither did Carpenter.

We can easily grab a guy that can spot start and not hurt us while also playing specials.  We probably won't, because of our current youth movement, but there's nothing behind McDuffie that would give me confidence that they could spot start a game or two and not be a large liability.  And even McDuffie doesn't make me feel overly confident.

[vegas492]

Kraft didn't strike me as anything special on the field either.  Not yet at least.

[StatKing]

When you watch Clifford on the all 22 you can't help but be impressed. Very good stuff for a 5th round rookie QB.