I thought for sure C.J Stroud was going to go first.

[Tank4Drake]

On 11/15/2023 at 12:10 PM, ET80 said:

It's about time the Texans got some dumb luck on their end. Since that playoff game vs KC, it's been 100% dumb, 0% luck.

Yes, definitely some luck here. This show the Texans really liked both Young and Stroud. 

[Soko]

16 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

Has Nico gotten better? Perhaps. Is CJ Stroud also making Tank Dell, Noah Brown, & Dalton Schultz look great? Yes he is. So who's to say which outweighs the other? I'm certainly siding with the 1st round rookie QB elevating the 3rd year 3rd round WR who had never topped 40 receptions in a season over the alternative. 

Or, again, maybe they’re all just playing well? It’s not about outweighing, it’s looking at them individually. Collins, Tank, and Schultz are playing really solid football. They’re getting open. They’re making nice catches. And in Tank’s case, creating a ton after the catch. They are all capable of that, because that’s their skill set. The OC puts them in the right position, and then Stroud delivers them a great ball when they’re open. I’ve yet to hear from a single person anythjng specific Stroud has done that makes these guys better football players.

Comparing a player’s production with Davis Mills to their production with a top 2 pick OROY, will surely yield highly different results. Stroud’s a significantly better football player than Mills. Junk QBs like Mills will absolutely tank just about anyone’s production, except for elite talents, and even then not always (Adams isn’t producing nearly as much with their crappy passers this year, for example). 

16 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

I can't tell if you're intentionally ignoring what I'm saying on the Thielen front, but I clarified big numbers recently, relative to the rest of the players in question. Thielen was relegated to option #3 on the team last season but has clearly shown he still has, at the very least, solid #2 target play left in him. He is the lone producer on an otherwise sad offense. 

It’s a crap take no matter how you spin it. He’s producing because he’s the only viable target they have, not because he’s this savvy veteran who’s still playing like a great WR2. Trying to spin him as anything else than an old (33) WR who’s best suited to be a WR3 but is pigeonholed into a WR1 role with zero other solid targets on the team, is a frame job. Especially when you use all those “big numbers” he put up recently.

16 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

The question was (intentionally?) leading the witness astray. My point was never who was the better HC. My point was who is the better QB developer. Reich has a history. The Texans staff does not (to that extent). That is the distinction. 

Has a history of what? He worked with a guy who was widely considered the one of the greatest QB prospects of all time and “NFL ready” in Luck. Then what? Wentz tanked. Who are all these QBs that Reich developed?

“Ryans rookie HC with no experience vs experienced QB guru Reich”

Yet you’d take Ryans. That’s not a frame job? Riiiiiight…

16 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

This is nit-picking at this point, but I'm not convinced Pierce or Singletary are better than Chuba. If they are, it's marginal. Coming into the season, you'd likely rank Sanders & Pierce in the same tier (though I realize Sanders has been bad, but again, that's also partially a condition of environment). 

Totally whiffed on Sanders. I think Pierce is  better, just not a fit in Houston the way they run the ball, but taking Sanders isn’t crazy.

16 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

You say Tank over Thielen as if Tank didn't require an injury to a similar veteran WR2 in Robert Woods to actually get his chance. If you put Thielen on this Texans team, I think there is a strong argument I remains the target/receptions leader for that team, due to his veteran savvy & feel for zones (primarily). To automatically assume he gets supplanted by a 3rd year underachiever & another 3rd year rookie is a reach, considering he's already taken over WR1 on a team with a top 40 rookie, a 3rd year underachiever (Marshall), and another decent veteran (Chark). 
 

Why does it matter how Tank climbed the depth chart? Is he a good player on the field, or not? Plenty of good/great/elite receivers had to climb the depth chart, sometimes by others getting injured or leaving. That doesn’t diminish what they’re doing on the field when they do get there.

Yeaaah, you’re using their preseason outlook. Which is fine, but not the point. Based on what we’ve seen up until today? Thielen’s the 3, in all likelihood. What about the OL and tight ends?

16 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

Whoever said that it's a balancing act between supporting cast & QB elevating talent is correct. It's not black & white. I never meant to insinuate it was. My only point is that the supporting casts are only marginally different, & not enough of a gap to declare that Stroud is far better off. The Texans were literally projected for a top 2 pick entering the season. 

Th casts aren’t marginally different when you look at what they’re doing on the field, only if you refuse to look at that and instead use what they were in the offseason.

Here’s the thing: the Texans were projected to be awful, agreed. So the OL plays well above that. The receivers play well above that. The defense plays well above that. Stroud is playing better than anyone thought. So why are we only saying Stroud is good? I’m not saying the rest of the team is as good quality wise as Stroud, but why are we judging Stroud without these “they were gonna pick top 2” glasses? Like, we’re using that preconceived prediction to ding the entire team, except for Stroud? Collins hasn’t had the chance to show he’s a decent player (Mills). Dell is new. Patterson is new. Fant is new. Schultz is new. Mason is new. Most of the team’s contributors are new, not rookie new, but new to the team. They’ve all shed that label as this awful, talentless team. 

[SaveOurSonics]

29 minutes ago, Soko said:

Or, again, maybe they’re all just playing well? It’s not about outweighing, it’s looking at them individually. Collins, Tank, and Schultz are playing really solid football. They’re getting open. They’re making nice catches. And in Tank’s case, creating a ton after the catch. They are all capable of that, because that’s their skill set. The OC puts them in the right position, and then Stroud delivers them a great ball when they’re open. I’ve yet to hear from a single person anythjng specific Stroud has done that makes these guys better football players.

Uhh, the same things that guys like Burrow & Rodgers (just two examples). Throw with anticipation. Throw the receivers open. Have a firm understanding of the route concepts related to a zone defense. Do you think Stroud is just magically producing with inexperienced targets littered all over the offense? 

On one hand you're saying that guys like Davis Mills hold these players back, but you can't see how guys like Stroud elevate them? 

29 minutes ago, Soko said:

It’s a crap take no matter how you spin it. He’s producing because he’s the only viable target they have, not because he’s this savvy veteran who’s still playing like a great WR2. Trying to spin him as anything else than an old (33) WR who’s best suited to be a WR3 but is pigeonholed into a WR1 role with zero other solid targets on the team, is a frame job. Especially when you use all those “big numbers” he put up recently.

Dude. How about I spin it like this lol. The guy is currently 5th in the league at WR in receptions, behind only Keenan Allen, Stefon Diggs, Ja'Marr Chase, & Tyreek Hill. He has as many TDs as CeeDee Lamb, Travis Kelce, & ARSB, and more TDs than Davante Adams, Chris Olave, & Christian Kirk. He has a higher 1stD% than Kelce, Terry McLaurin, Kirk, Jordan Addison, & DeVonta Smith. At the end of the day, talent commands targets. You still have to beat your man & get open, and Thielen has done that despite defenses knowing he is the sole producer on this offense. 

YOU can spin any narrative you want on what type of player YOU think Adam Thielen is. I'll lean on data. 

"Opinions over statistics, of course" -Drake 

29 minutes ago, Soko said:

“Ryans rookie HC with no experience vs experienced QB guru Reich”

Yet you’d take Ryans. That’s not a frame job? Riiiiiight…

You asked me which HC I'd rather have, which was never the point I raised. It's a classic strawman on your part, not a frame on mine. If you asked me which coach I'd rather have develop my young QB, I would've answered Reich. See how that's different? See how one relates to my point and the other one doesn't? 

Probably not. 

29 minutes ago, Soko said:

Why does it matter how Tank climbed the depth chart? Is he a good player on the field, or not? Plenty of good/great/elite receivers had to climb the depth chart, sometimes by others getting injured or leaving. That doesn’t diminish what they’re doing on the field when they do get there.

Yeaaah, you’re using their preseason outlook. Which is fine, but not the point. Based on what we’ve seen up until today? Thielen’s the 3, in all likelihood. What about the OL and tight ends?

You're missing the point, again. I'm not diminishing the rise of Tank Dell. I'm telling you that he's likely not producing the way he is today if not for an injury to Robert Woods, simply due to snap/target share. Thielen is better than Robert Woods. If you put Thielen on this Texans team, barring injury, I don't think he relinquishes share of being a top target on this offense considering what we've seen from him in Carolina. That's all we have to go off of. 

29 minutes ago, Soko said:

Th casts aren’t marginally different when you look at what they’re doing on the field, only if you refuse to look at that and instead use what they were in the offseason.

And my one and only point is that the weight of Stroud's play outweighs the difference in talent. 

Do you honestly think if Young was in Houston & Stroud was in Carolina, everything else being exactly the same, that Stroud would be struggling to Young's degree & Young would be excelling to Stroud's degree? I realize you have not explicitly said that, but it certainly feels like the insinuation. 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by SaveOurSonics

[Soko]

38 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

Uhh, the same things that guys like Burrow & Rodgers (just two examples). Throw with anticipation. Throw the receivers open. Have a firm understanding of the route concepts related to a zone defense. Do you think Stroud is just magically producing with inexperienced targets littered all over the offense?

Throwing with anticipation makes the receivers better at running routes or catching the football? News to me. You’re, somehow still, conflating production with skill. Getting the receiver a better ball helps them out their own independent skill set on display (or not, in same cases. Sometimes a bad ball forced the receiver to show that they’re great at contested catches, for instance).

38 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

On one hand you're saying that guys like Davis Mills hold these players back, but you can't see how guys like Stroud elevate them? 

Sigh. Here we go. 

Tank Dell runs a slant. He beats the corner inside, the CB has speed and gets into a trail position. Davis Mills sees it late/is inaccurate/has awful footwork/gets spooked by the pressure, and he throws it behind Dell. The corner breaks it up, Dell never even touches the ball.

Now Dell runs the same route. Beats the CB inside again, same way as before. Only this time, Stroud/Mahomes/Goff/any good QB, they evade the pressure/are accurate/see it right away, and they give the ball to Dell inside where only he can reach it. He catches the ball, first down. 

Tank Dell is not a better wide receiver in the second scenario. His skill set has not changed. Nothing’s changed except the QB delivering him the ball. Davis Mills doesn’t allow Dell to display his independent skills in the first scenario, but Stroud does in the second. Dell himself does not change at all, just the opportunity presented to him.

It’s not rocket science.

38 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

Dude. How about I spin it like this lol. The guy is currently 6th in the league at WR in receptions. He has as many TDs as CeeDee Lamb, Travis Kelce, & ARSB, and more TDs than Davante Adams, Chris Olave, & Christian Kirk. He has a higher 1stD% than Kelce, Terry McLaurin, Kirk, Jordan Addison, & DeVonta Smith. At the end of the day, talent commands targets. You still have to beat your man & get open, and Thielen has done that despite defenses knowing he is the sole producer on this offense. 

YOU can spin any narrative you want on what type of player YOU think Adam Thielen is. I'll lean on data. 

Sorta cherry picking, there eh? Jakobi Meyers has more TDs than those guys, and Michael Pittman has more targets. Last year, Gabe Davis had more TDs than Mike Evans and DK Metcalf, and Zay Jones had more targets than Brandon Aiyuk or Terry McLaurin or Jaylen Waddle.

But then also, I don’t believe that scoring having 4 vs 6 TDs, or getting lots of balls thrown your way = being skilled at WR. Both of those sound like things that’ll get inflated by being the only competent WR in a WR room filled with JAGs.

38 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

You asked me which HC I'd rather have, which was never the point I raised. It's a classic strawman on your part, not a frame on mine. If you asked me which coach I'd rather have develop my young QB, I would've answered Reich. See how that's different? See how one relates to my point and the other one doesn't? 
 

It’s not a straw man. I said it almost exactly how you wrote it in your post. “Rookie first time HC vs heralded QB coach Reich”. Im not looking back as I type this, but that’s almost verbatim IIRC. If this was an attempt at objectively comparing two situations, wouldn’t *having the better HC* be much more beneficial? 

38 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

You're missing the point, again. I'm not diminishing the rise of Tank Dell. I'm telling you that he's likely not producing the way he is today if not for an injury to Robert Woods, simply due to snap/target share. Thielen is better than Robert Woods. If you put Thielen on this Texans team, barring injury, I don't think he relinquishes share of being a top target on this offense considering what we've seen from him in Carolina. That's all we have to go off of. 

Thielen is getting those shares because the other receivers in Carolina are underwhelming. It’s easy to standout in a room with no one else posing any problems. Not the case in Houston. It’s strictly hypothetical, so there’s not really much to add beyond agreeing to disagree. No way Thielen starts over Collins or Dell in a WR room where they’re all together.

BTW - what about OL and TE? 

38 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

And my one and only point is that the weight of Stroud's play outweighs the difference in talent. 

The weight of Stroud’s play outweighs the difference in talent, in what? Full srs, don’t what you meant by that one. 

38 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

Do you honestly think if Young was in Houston & Stroud was in Carolina, everything else being exactly the same, that Stroud would be struggling to Young's degree & Young would be excelling to Stroud's degree? I realize you have not explicitly said that, but it certainly feels like the insinuation. 

If you flipped them, I feel that Stroud would be playing worse than he currently is in Houston, and that Young would play much better than he currently is in Carolina. That doesn’t mean Stroud would be a worse player, but naturally his opportunities to display the skills he is right now, would be decreased. Young’s would be increased, so I think we’d feel a bit better about where he is as a QB than we do now with him in Carolina.

But Stroud’s skills are his skills. He wouldn’t be any worse, he just maybe wouldn’t be able to show it off as much because the receivers aren’t putting it together in the back, because the OL isn’t giving him the chance to upfront, or the coaching isn’t putting everyone in the right places. 

Anyways, no, I don’t think Stroud would be struggling as much as Young or Young would be succeeding as much as Stroud, because I believe so far in their NFL careers Stroud has displayed much better QBing ability. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Soko

[SaveOurSonics]

48 minutes ago, Soko said:

Throwing with anticipation makes the receivers better at running routes or catching the football? News to me. You’re, somehow still, conflating production with skill. Getting the receiver a better ball helps them out their own independent skill set on display (or not, in same cases. Sometimes a bad ball forced the receiver to show that they’re great at contested catches, for instance).

Ah so your point is that there is nothing a QB can do to make his WRs more talented got it. 

It's not about making them more talented. It's about illuminating the talent they have. Guess who else could be an absolute menace on short crossing routes? Jonathan Mingo. The guy who was drafted nearly half a draft earlier due to his size, speed, and general talent (please don't insinuate I didn't watch Mingo at Ole Miss). 

Illuminating talent. That's what the best QBs do. They get the ball out on time, accurately, and put their receivers in a position to maximize available yards. We're really not seeing that in Carolina. I'm not rocket surgeon but that's how I see it. 

51 minutes ago, Soko said:

Sorta cherry picking, there eh? Jakobi Meyers has more TDs than those guys, and Michael Pittman has more targets. Last year, Gabe Davis had more TDs than Mike Evans and DK Metcalf, and Zay Jones had more targets than Brandon Aiyuk or Terry McLaurin or Jaylen Waddle.

But then also, I don’t believe that scoring having 4 vs 6 TDs, or getting lots of balls thrown your way = being skilled at WR. Both of those sound like things that’ll get inflated by being the only competent WR in a WR room filled with JAGs.

Not really. Cherry picking would be using any one of those statistics to back up my case, as you've done with TDs. I utilized three separate statistical categories to show that Thielen is either top of the league or better than many talented WRs considered better than him. Seriously, the guy only trails 5 elite WRs in receptions. You can say "the ball has to go somewhere" all you want, but we don't see Hollywood with that production. We don't see Drake London with that production. We don't see Terry McLaurin with that production. We don't see Amari Cooper with that production. We don't see Davante Adams with that production. This goes without saying, but Carolina's pass offense is worse or on par with all of those teams I just listed. The guy is competing with CeeDee Lamb & ARSB for total catches & you want me to believe he's effectively the equivalent of Robert Woods. 

Find me another JAG who has been top 5 in WR receptions through 10 weeks in any recent seasons. 

Am I saying Thielen is amazing? Nope. Is he a alpha WR1? Nope. Is he even top half of the league for a starting WR? Probably not, idk. In that sense, you're right, the target share he's commanding due to circumstance is maximizing his ability. Regardless, he's putting up great numbers despite defensive attention dictating otherwise. The guy has objectively been playing really good ball. 

58 minutes ago, Soko said:

If you flipped them, I feel that Stroud would be playing worse than he currently is in Houston, and that Young would play much better than he currently is in Carolina. That doesn’t mean Stroud would be a worse player, but naturally his opportunities to display the skills he is right now, would be decreased. Young’s would be increased, so I think we’d feel a bit better about where he is as a QB than we do now with him in Carolina.

But Stroud’s skills are his skills. He wouldn’t be any worse, he just maybe wouldn’t be able to show it off as much because the receivers aren’t putting it together in the back, because the OL isn’t giving him the chance to upfront, or the coaching isn’t putting everyone in the right places. 

Anyways, no, I don’t think Stroud would be struggling as much as Young or Young would be succeeding as much as Stroud, because I believe so far in their NFL careers Stroud has displayed much better QBing ability. 

See, we even only marginally disagree at the end of the day lol. 

This is of course all speculation, but in my opinion, if you put Stroud in Carolina, Tank Dell isn't the hot rookie WR of 2023. Jonathan Mingo is. 

[Soko]

1 hour ago, SaveOurSonics said:

Ah so your point is that there is nothing a QB can do to make his WRs more talented got it. 

It's not about making them more talented. It's about illuminating the talent they have. Guess who else could be an absolute menace on short crossing routes? Jonathan Mingo. The guy who was drafted nearly half a draft earlier due to his size, speed, and general talent (please don't insinuate I didn't watch Mingo at Ole Miss). 

Illuminating talent. That's what the best QBs do. They get the ball out on time, accurately, and put their receivers in a position to maximize available yards. We're really not seeing that in Carolina. I'm not rocket surgeon but that's how I see it. 
 

I posted it earlier, but yes, this could be chalked up to semantics, in a way. Anyone who says good/great QB play illuminates talent, won’t hear any rebukes from me. That’s exactly the case, IMO. I’d say that the  50/50 guys actually might benefit from middling QB play a little bit, but that’s irrelevant. 

I won’t insinuate that you didn’t watch Mingo at Ole Miss, but I will say he hasn’t shown he could do the things that Dell can do while in the NFL. Obviously it’s insanely early to formulate any type of long term opinion on this kid (or any of these guys), but that’s the case so far. I’m not willing to say that Young (or any QB) is holding a guy like Mingo back, because I haven’t seen Mingo do that in the NFL yet.

I won’t argue that Young is illuminating talent in Carolina, but similar to much how the QB provides good (or bad) opportunities to the WR, I think the OL and OC provide good (or bad) opportunities for the QB. Not that the lack of success is all on them, just further context is all. It’s all symbiotic, and I don’t believe that Young’s in the same position as Stroud with pass catchers, protection, or coaching.

1 hour ago, SaveOurSonics said:

Not really. Cherry picking would be using any one of those statistics to back up my case, as you've done with TDs. I utilized three separate statistical categories to show that Thielen is either top of the league or better than many talented WRs considered better than him. Seriously, the guy only trails 5 elite WRs in receptions. You can say "the ball has to go somewhere" all you want, but we don't see Hollywood with that production. We don't see Drake London with that production. We don't see Terry McLaurin with that production. We don't see Amari Cooper with that production. We don't see Davante Adams with that production. This goes without saying, but Carolina's pass offense is worse or on par with all of those teams I just listed. The guy is competing with CeeDee Lamb & ARSB for total catches & you want me to believe he's effectively the equivalent of Robert Woods. 

Find me another JAG who has been top 5 in WR receptions through 10 weeks in any recent seasons. 

Am I saying Thielen is amazing? Nope. Is he a alpha WR1? Nope. Is he even top half of the league for a starting WR? Probably not, idk. In that sense, you're right, the target share he's commanding due to circumstance is maximizing his ability. Regardless, he's putting up great numbers despite defensive attention dictating otherwise. The guy has objectively been playing really good ball. 
 

You’re not going to catch me saying anything positive about Hollywood, let’s start with that lol. But the point is, you could largely find WRs (or pretty much anyone at any position) that are putting up stats comparable or even better than WRs that are superior to them. I’m not really using stats to prop what I believe Thielen’s skill set is at. In fact, Thielen’s production is a perfect example of why I won’t say production = skills. He’s the only receiver worth a damn in Carolina. Naturally he’s going to get targets. He’s basically the only one getting first downs (everyone else on the team is averaging about 1 or less per game), so they’re looking at him for it. It makes sense that in a WR room that’s mostly playing lackluster football, the only decent one is getting force fed.

Went off on a tangent about Thielen, especially since I’m not even factoring in his production. 

1 hour ago, SaveOurSonics said:

See, we even only marginally disagree at the end of the day lol. 

This is of course all speculation, but in my opinion, if you put Stroud in Carolina, Tank Dell isn't the hot rookie WR of 2023. Jonathan Mingo is. 

Dell probably isn’t getting the same chances, so yeah, I’d speculate he isn’t the hot rookie as well. I’m not ready to grant that (hypothetical) credit to Mingo yet, though. He hasn’t flashed enough. If he had that great ability but was being held back by QB play, you’d see more flashes than he’s shown IMO. 

Shrug. Speculative disagreements are just conversations, we’ll never know. It is what it is. Unnecessarily got combative, but at the end of the day, just a disagreement. My apologies for getting contentious!

[iknowcool]

8 hours ago, SaveOurSonics said:

This is of course all speculation, but in my opinion, if you put Stroud in Carolina, Tank Dell isn't the hot rookie WR of 2023. Jonathan Mingo is. 

Respectfully, I just don't get this thinking.  

Like Soko said, it would be one thing if Mingo had flashed this season and was being underutilized.  But he's getting a lot of play-time.  He's just not good.  His routes are terrible, no separation, and he's had a couple of drops.  Maybe he'll get better.  He's still young, although considering our draft history as of late... well I'm not too optimistic.  But so far, Mingo hasn't shown anything at all to suggest he would be the "hot rookie" on any NFL team.    

And Tank isn't even the hot rookie WR of 2023 anyway.  That belongs to Puka Nacua, and despite where he was taken, it feels like more people are willing to accept Nacua being good than they are Dell.  I agree that Stroud has helped Dell tremendously, but it just feels like a disservice to him to say any struggling rookie WR (which is Mingo) could step in and do the same.  

Here's a good breakdown of what Dell is providing for the offense - 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSAYXHwiIBM&ab_channel=AtoZSportsFilmRoom

Again... CJ Stroud helps Dell.  But Dell is legitimately playing very well and he's shown far more than Mingo has even beyond the stat-sheet.  Just as it would be ridiculous to say Bryce would be playing as good as Stroud if he was in Houston, it is in my opinion equally as ridiculous to say Mingo would be playing as good as Dell if he was in Houston.  Because when you just watch them play it really isn't close right now.  

Edited November 18, 2023 by iknowcool

[Xenos]

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2023/11/13/23959087/cj-stroud-mvp-historic-rookie-season-houston-texans
 

Quote

C.J. Stroud Is Having One of the Best Rookie Seasons Ever. And He’s Just Getting Started.

The Texans QB is no longer just in the company of Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson—he’s now being talked about with Dan Marino and Andrew Luck in terms of all-time rookie seasons. How’s he doing this? And just how good can he be?

 

[RaidersAreOne]

Stroud is winning MVP.

 

[KhanYouDigIt]

6 TO’s the last two weeks and still 2 wins. Demeco got them playing good ball.

[Duluther]

7 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said:

6 TO’s the last two weeks and still 2 wins. Demeco got them playing good ball.

The intentional underhanded compliment by a division foe. Love to see it.

[Tank4Drake]

Even when Stroud throws 3 INTs he looks good. Jesus. 

[SaveOurSonics]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:20 PM, iknowcool said:

And Tank isn't even the hot rookie WR of 2023 anyway.

This didn't age well. 

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, SaveOurSonics said:

This didn't age well. 

You were the one who suggested Jonathan Mingo could do the same thing Tank Dell is doing... but sure, it is my take that didn't age well lol

And I'll still stand by what I said.  Yes, Dell had a great game (and I have been the one pounding the table the most for him in this thread... so color me not surprised) and he's having a great season... but so is Puka.  Lets not act like Puka wasn't putting up those numbers in his first 2 weeks.  He's currently 9th in receiving yards and is on pace to clear 1500 yards (to be fair to Dell he's played fewer games and has more TDs, but the Rams were feeding Kyren in the red-zone to start the year).  They both are having great seasons though.  But again, I am not the one who is diminishing what Dell is doing out there.  

Edited November 20, 2023 by iknowcool

[Chiefer]

On 11/15/2023 at 1:10 PM, ET80 said:

It's about time the Texans got some dumb luck on their end. Since that playoff game vs KC, it's been 100% dumb, 0% luck.

Y’all should be thanking the Chiefs, that loss catapulted you into getting CJ Stroud!