turtle28 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, lavar703 said: I know its probably not the best usage of resources but if we're picking in the 10-15 range and Bowers is there I'm not sure how you pass on him? It also depends on what OT are there as well obviously but I think after Fashanu or Alt you're looking at Barton or Latham and I'm just not sure they're worth picking that high? Maybe if you trade back and acquire some picks but I'd probably just take Bowers. I understand the hit rate of first round TEs is very low but Bowers just seems different. He's usually the best player on the field and its been that way since his freshman season. I'm with you, I’m all about best player available despite the position when it's obvious & if Bowers is available for us and we're picking around 10, we need to take him. Edited October 9, 2023 by turtle28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: I'm with you, I’m all about best player available despite the position when it's obvious & if Bowers is available for us and we're picking around 10, we need to take him. This is so subjective and honestly it led us to where we are right now. If you have competent staff members making the rankings and decisions, maybe our O-Line/LB core would look different and we wouldn't have selected 5 defensive players out of 7 total with our 1st or 2nd round picks, just for our defense to look like trash. Sometimes need has to take precedent. So if you are going to reach, it better be for a position of need. And if you select "BPA," you better have proper talent evaluators or you'll draft a 3rd DT that never see's the field or two DBs when your LB core and O-Line are in shambles. Don't even get me started on the amount of talent at TE in the draft and we selected none. Edited October 9, 2023 by Slappy Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: This is so subjective and honestly it led us to where we are right now. If you have competent staff members making the rankings and decisions, maybe our O-Line/LB core would look different and we wouldn't have selected 5 defensive players out of 7 total with our 1st or 2nd round picks, just for our defense to look like trash. Sometimes need has to take precedent. So if you are going to reach, it better be for a position of need. And if you select "BPA," you better have proper talent evaluators or you'll draft a 3rd DT that never see's the field or two DBs when your LB core and O-Line are in shambles. Don't even get me started on the amount of talent at TE in the draft and we selected none. I think Rivera, JDR & the Marty’s have made two critical errors in the 2021 & 2023 drafts. They drafted squarely on need in the first two rounds & wrongly felt content at other positions. With the Mathis pick, Ron created the need all on his own bc instead of restructuring Matt Ioannidis, he lied to Matt/hia agent and said he wouldn't but cut. When they made the decision they were going to have to cut Ioannidis in order to afford Carson Wentz, then they had to draft a DT rather high. It didn't have to be round 2, but they couldn't take a chance on relying on a late round guy at DT either. Luckily, Ridgeway was a complete find/steal & Obada played well when rushing at DT too but they didn't know that would play out like that on draft day. Ron & company seriously thought the guys they brought in Gates/Wylie & his incumbent young guards (Charles, Cosmi) were the answers. He thought he had fixed the OL problem before the draft but it was just a guess and so far the guess has been extremely wrong except for Cosmi and some flashes from Charles but Charles & Gates haven't been consistent. I'm not touching TE either bc we won't agree and there's no reason to go down that rabbit hole again. Edited October 9, 2023 by turtle28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 On 9/19/2023 at 1:12 PM, MikeT14 said: 2024 Mock Draft I am assuming at the moment we're in the teens again. So, with that said... Round 1 - Dallas Turner, DE, Alabama - I don't see how we keep both Sweat and Young, and so we are probably replacing one of them. I want to keep that line a beast. Round 2 - Jack Nelson, OT, Clemson - We have issues at tackle, and need to find our future guy sooner rather than later. Nelson could play either side. Round 3 - Will Shipley, RB, Clemson - Kinda high on him to be successful in the NFL. Round 4 - Smael Mondon, LB, Georgia - More depth or future starters is necessary here. Round 5 - Bryson Nesbit, TE, UNC - built similar to Logan and Cole. Round 6 - Jahmal Banks, WR, Wake Forest - he's 6'4" - something I think we are sorely missing. Round 7 - Tyler Van Dyke, QB, Miami 10.9.23 update Round 1 - Brock Bowers, TE, Georgia Round 2 - Barrett Carter, LB, Clemson Round 3 - Will Shipley, RB, Clemson Round 4 - Tyler Guyton, T, Oklahoma Round 5 - Ashton Gillotte, EDGE, Louisville Round 6 - J. Michael Strudivant, WR, UCLA Round 7 - Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU I've probably got a couple of these guys rated too low and they would go higher, but it's a crapshoot to know much of anything right now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I think Rivera, JDR & the Marty’s have made two critical errors in the 2021 & 2023 drafts. They drafted squarely on need in the first two rounds & wrongly felt content at other positions. With the Mathis pick, Ron created the need all on his own bc instead of restructuring Matt Ioannidis, he lied to Matt/hia agent and said he wouldn't but cut. When they made the decision they were going to have to cut Ioannidis in order to afford Carson Wentz, then they had to draft a DT rather high. It didn't have to be round 2, but they couldn't take a chance on relying on a late round guy at DT either. Luckily, Ridgeway was a complete find/steal & Obada played well when rushing at DT too but they didn't know that would play out like that on draft day. Ron & company seriously thought the guys they brought in Gates/Wylie & his incumbent young guards (Charles, Cosmi) were the answers. He thought he had fixed the OL problem before the draft but it was just a guess and so far the guess has been extremely wrong except for Cosmi and some flashes from Charles but Charles & Gates haven't been consistent. I'm not touching TE either bc we won't agree and there's no reason to go down that rabbit hole again. Everything you said is exactly why it is important to have the right people making these decisions. There was zero NEED to draft a 3rd DT with a prime pick (especially overdrafting said player). Ron and Co. thinking anything about our offensive line being sufficient is another example. I would argue that Cosmi has been the same at Guard as he was at Tackle. Charles had a good showing earlier in the season, but was trash on Thursday. "Not touching the TE" is like the mantra for Ron Rivera. They refuse to see that as a premium position and Logan Thomas is trying to bail them out again. Besides the fumble on Thursday, he really had a good game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 If you had the Miss St. Center & LG on your draft board, uiu need to scrap that! 😂 yikes 😱 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: 10.9.23 update Round 1 - Brock Bowers, TE, Georgia Round 2 - Barrett Carter, LB, Clemson Round 3 - Will Shipley, RB, Clemson Round 4 - Tyler Guyton, T, Oklahoma Round 5 - Ashton Gillotte, EDGE, Louisville Round 6 - J. Michael Strudivant, WR, UCLA Round 7 - Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU In my mock I'm not taking another late-round DE, we have enough. I like Shipley & Carter a lot but unless there were no OTs worth taking with either pick, I'd take an OT over either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 Just now, turtle28 said: In my mock I'm not taking another late-round DE, we have enough. I like Shipley & Carter a lot but unless there were no OTs worth taking with either pick, I'd take an OT over either of them. Yeah, I'm obviously not opposed to it. There's good tackle talent in the draft. I'm thinking linebacker MIGHT be a bigger need as crazy as it sounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: Yeah, I'm obviously not opposed to it. There's good tackle talent in the draft. I'm thinking linebacker MIGHT be a bigger need as crazy as it sounds... You're right, a MIKE LB could very well end up being our actual #1 need of next draft. I have no faith in Wylie becoming any better as an OT but, there's an outside chance that Braden Daniels or Trent Scott show enough in practice that they can be our RT or if we retain Lucas. I just hate that we don't have a definite answer at LG & RT and Leno doesn't have much time left in his career either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 With how devalued LBs have been I wonder if Trotter Jr makes it to our second round pick? Trenton Simpson fell pretty far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, lavar703 said: With how devalued LBs have been I wonder if Trotter Jr makes it to our second round pick? Trenton Simpson fell pretty far But for Trenton's fall there was Jack Campbell's rise. I'd say Trotter is a much better prospect than Simpson too, wouldn't you? At least, I like him a lot better. edit: misread what round you were saying too (read third for some reason). I think Trotter could definitely be there in the 2nd as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 41 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: But for Trenton's fall there was Jack Campbell's rise. I'd say Trotter is a much better prospect than Simpson too, wouldn't you? At least, I like him a lot better. edit: misread what round you were saying too (read third for some reason). I think Trotter could definitely be there in the 2nd as well. This is just a guess on my part, but I think Jack Campbell went in the first simply because he's 6'5" 245 lbs. Trotter is a lot closer to Simpson's size. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 1 hour ago, MKnight82 said: This is just a guess on my part, but I think Jack Campbell went in the first simply because he's 6'5" 245 lbs. Trotter is a lot closer to Simpson's size. Yeah, but Trotter Jr. is a Mike. Simpson is a WLB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 I would also point out that our next coach will unlikely run the 2 linebacker scheme. I think we need to completely overhaul our linebackers. But I would still draft a tackle with our top pick. Leno has honestly been great, but we need to look to future and he is cuttable or tradeable this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Slappy Mc said: Everything you said is exactly why it is important to have the right people making these decisions. There was zero NEED to draft a 3rd DT with a prime pick (especially overdrafting said player). Ron and Co. thinking anything about our offensive line being sufficient is another example. I would argue that Cosmi has been the same at Guard as he was at Tackle. Charles had a good showing earlier in the season, but was trash on Thursday. "Not touching the TE" is like the mantra for Ron Rivera. They refuse to see that as a premium position and Logan Thomas is trying to bail them out again. Besides the fumble on Thursday, he really had a good game. I'm not Rivera Fas as you know but it's not fair to say he didn't “touch TE” they drafted Bates in 2021 & Cole Turner in 2022 and both have flashed at what roles they do best. Now could they do better at the position? Yeah, we all believe they could but I think OL was clearly the weakest link on the whole roster going into the draft. Not addressing it until your comp pick in the 3rd & your 4th round pick was malpractice. They missed out on the top 4 OTs in R1, but they could've taken an OL in R2 and should've for sure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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