GDT: Denver at Miami

[French Fan]

8 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

I am looking at the first KC game (a Thursday Night clash on Oct. 12th) as the first possible flash point for change. If this team is 0-6 or 1-5 (especially if KC puts up a 50-burger in that game), Vance may go because you have ten days before the next game. Also, that may be the first time that they discuss a fire sale. 

Only 50 ?? Mahomes and Reid are not a Broncos ball boy as McDaniel. If they have the tools to put 80 they will !!

[7DnBrnc53]

1 hour ago, French Fan said:

Only 50 ?? Mahomes and Reid are not a Broncos ball boy as McDaniel. If they have the tools to put 80 they will !!

Why not 100? 

[big_palooka]

On 9/24/2023 at 10:35 PM, BroncoBruin said:

It doesn’t make 70 or anything related to the Broncos feel any better but Palooka is facing widespread mutiny from the entire Raiders forum for his pro-McDaniels agenda. That’s pretty funny. 

At least tag me if you want to talk about me my friend.  

Saying "the entire Raiders forum" is hilarious. Most, like myself agree that a regime should get 3 years to install their vision, baring losing the locker room. The "mutiny" is 4 of the worst posters on our forum. Constant negative nancies, most who are big Carr apologists rooting for failure to feed their egos. I use the McDaniels avatar to troll them. 

McDaniels was not my preferred hire. I'll always be patient with any hire and optimistic to a point. Most the ego driven nonsense he was known for in Denver seems a relic of the past. Turns out, he's just a lackluster coach in decision making and plan. 

I'm pro-Raider, just like you are pro-Bronco. You'll support coaches and players until the give you a reason not to. In the case of the Raiders (and you're finding out post Kubiak) the constant changes in regime, philosophy and player suck. Nothing ever takea root. It's a constant throw the baby out with the bath water affair and rebuild that never ends. 

[big_palooka]

18 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I’m not surprised no one is getting fired - if it was week 15 and not week 3 it could be different. But I’m sure there will be some sort of changes; given how opaque this organization is, however, we likely won’t know what changes are being instituted. 

That said, I would feel better if Greg Penner got out before the cameras and said something to the effect of “what happened yesterday is unacceptable. I’m working with Sean, George and their staffs to correct problems that we saw yesterday and get this ship righted. Our fans deserve better and everyone in this building knows that and we will be working around the clock to begin winning football games.” 

I know Mr. B would have done that. And, say what you want about him, Jerry Jones is an accountable owner - he gets out in front of the cameras after every game and goes on his radio show in Dallas every week and takes the questions and addresses the good and the bad. The Walmarts would earn some respect from the fanbase if Penner or Rob or someone took some accountability publicly. 

Out of curiosity, do Penner and the Wal-mart know what's going on? Do they care about the sport?

Maybe it's just me, but they showed them in their box suite the other day and they look like a bunch of stiffs. They look like a group who had a bunch of money and needed something to spend it on. So they bought a football team. Their vibe feels more "maximizing the ROI" than "we love the game and the Broncos." 

They look and feel so corporate America. Like they will throw money at any problem for any solution. But they don't feel rooted in the sport or love of the game. 

Just my observation. I don't get the feel of a group who really has a feel for the NFL and football culture in general. All of it feels like a business transaction with no soul.  

[Broncofan]

Someone probably should start the Week 4 GDT. The bodies are starting to pile up - @lomaxgrUK, @AnAngryAmerican & I are already off the board.

[French Fan]

4 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Why not 100? 

15 TDs is impossible even with this D. But Miami score 10 and have the time to score the 11th. So 12 why not !

[BroncoBruin]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

At least tag me if you want to talk about me my friend.  

Saying "the entire Raiders forum" is hilarious. Most, like myself agree that a regime should get 3 years to install their vision, baring losing the locker room. The "mutiny" is 4 of the worst posters on our forum. Constant negative nancies, most who are big Carr apologists rooting for failure to feed their egos. I use the McDaniels avatar to troll them. 

McDaniels was not my preferred hire. I'll always be patient with any hire and optimistic to a point. Most the ego driven nonsense he was known for in Denver seems a relic of the past. Turns out, he's just a lackluster coach in decision making and plan. 

I'm pro-Raider, just like you are pro-Bronco. You'll support coaches and players until the give you a reason not to. In the case of the Raiders (and you're finding out post Kubiak) the constant changes in regime, philosophy and player suck. Nothing ever takea root. It's a constant throw the baby out with the bath water affair and rebuild that never ends. 

@big_palooka You thought Josh McDaniels would turn the Raiders around 😂

Edited September 26, 2023 by BroncoBruin

[broncos67]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Out of curiosity, do Penner and the Wal-mart know what's going on? Do they care about the sport?

Maybe it's just me, but they showed them in their box suite the other day and they look like a bunch of stiffs. They look like a group who had a bunch of money and needed something to spend it on. So they bought a football team. Their vibe feels more "maximizing the ROI" than "we love the game and the Broncos." 

They look and feel so corporate America. Like they will throw money at any problem for any solution. But they don't feel rooted in the sport or love of the game. 

Just my observation. I don't get the feel of a group who really has a feel for the NFL and football culture in general. All of it feels like a business transaction with no soul.  

Eh, maybe. I think it's hard to know. That said, every owner is trying to maximize their ROI. 

Broncos fans were spoiled by Pat Bowlen who was unique in a lot of ways as an owner and there won't be many, if any like him again.

Penner's job is to grow the notoriety of the team by winning. Very simple. They were clear they wanted to hire football people to do the job right and they'll cut the checks. Would rather have this than a meddling owner that thinks they know more than they do. 

I actually think Penner and Co. have done a good job so far. Hard to judge their on-field performance given some of the weird Broncos ownership and GM dynamics that have put this team in a hole. Rome wasn't built in a day. This is why I think the idea of Caleb Williams is so appealing. He's got pure superstar potential from Day 1

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

@big_palooka You thought Josh McDaniels would turn the Raiders around 😂

Sure, that's why I predicted them to 1) not make the playoffs last year and 2) win 6 games this year. 

I said give it 3 years, see what the build. 

But go off.... 

[big_palooka]

23 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Eh, maybe. I think it's hard to know. That said, every owner is trying to maximize their ROI. 

Broncos fans were spoiled by Pat Bowlen who was unique in a lot of ways as an owner and there won't be many, if any like him again.

Penner's job is to grow the notoriety of the team by winning. Very simple. They were clear they wanted to hire football people to do the job right and they'll cut the checks. Would rather have this than a meddling owner that thinks they know more than they do. 

I actually think Penner and Co. have done a good job so far. Hard to judge their on-field performance given some of the weird Broncos ownership and GM dynamics that have put this team in a hole. Rome wasn't built in a day. This is why I think the idea of Caleb Williams is so appealing. He's got pure superstar potential from Day 1

Maybe that's what it is. I had a lot of respect for Bowlen and he always felt like he had the pulse of the team.  

As for Penner, that sounds great in practice. The problems arise when you throw money at the wrong things trying to get a quick fix. That usually backfires. Peyton has a little of that feel for me. 

Agree, Williams would give most franchises a shot in the arm. I don't think the Broncos can get the #1 pick unless they commit to tanking and I don't see Peyton doing that. 

[broncos67]

19 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Maybe that's what it is. I had a lot of respect for Bowlen and he always felt like he had the pulse of the team.  

As for Penner, that sounds great in practice. The problems arise when you throw money at the wrong things trying to get a quick fix. That usually backfires. Peyton has a little of that feel for me. 

Agree, Williams would give most franchises a shot in the arm. I don't think the Broncos can get the #1 pick unless they commit to tanking and I don't see Peyton doing that. 

Payton wasn't Penner's first choice (Harbaugh was). I actually think Payton as a coach is fine and was a good move to re-establish the franchise and bring a more competitive offense to Denver after years of terrible play (including the year they won the SB). Trading draft picks for him is, and will continue to be an idiotic move that shouldn't have happened.

I think Penner needs 5 or so years to get things under control. This team was in a bad state when they took over. The Bowlen family was embroiled in a long, drawn-out legal situation, there was little to no leadership from the Bowlen trust. Elway had a bad end of GM tenure. The stadium needs an update. Just a lot of moving parts to address.

Realistically, what happens over the next two years will come to be a defining moment for this franchise. I agree with you, it's very unlikely we land Williams. I do think Payton wants to work with and develop a young QB and he may not get a better chance to snag one than he will this year.

[AKRNA]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

. In the case of the Raiders (and you're finding out post Kubiak) the constant changes in regime, philosophy and player suck. Nothing ever takea root. It's a constant throw the baby out with the bath water affair and rebuild that never ends. 

Thats us. General Paton's MO.

[AnAngryAmerican]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Out of curiosity, do Penner and the Wal-mart know what's going on? Do they care about the sport?

Maybe it's just me, but they showed them in their box suite the other day and they look like a bunch of stiffs. They look like a group who had a bunch of money and needed something to spend it on. So they bought a football team. Their vibe feels more "maximizing the ROI" than "we love the game and the Broncos." 

They look and feel so corporate America. Like they will throw money at any problem for any solution. But they don't feel rooted in the sport or love of the game. 

Just my observation. I don't get the feel of a group who really has a feel for the NFL and football culture in general. All of it feels like a business transaction with no soul.  

I build on what Ben said in his reply. 

I do think the Walmarts are invested in winning as they have spent and spent big since taking over - they paid $400k (which is pocket change to them, I get it) to replace the turf for the final home game last year after a concert tore it up. They did it to prevent injuries to players and, yes, for esthetics, so it didn’t look crappy in TV, but it’s says something they shell out for turf for a final game for a then-4-12 team whose game was only broadcast in the two teams local markets. They spent $100,000,000 this off-season to upgrade a stadium they will be moving out of by the end of the decade. They paid Sean whatever he wanted, and while the terms haven’t been disclosed, I’m sure he’s making Belichick/Carroll money. 

Of course it’s not all about spending money but the fact they’re willing to invest means it’s more than just a toy for them. Penner, as CEO, and his wife, are in the building quite regularly, and that comes from my beat writer friend who is in the building daily. 

I do agree it’s nice they’re letting the football people they hired/retained run the football things, which is good and is what Mr B did, and such an arrangement is preferable to the meddling owner. 

But, yes, they are very corporate America, very old money corporate America. They are a buttoned-up, conservative, white-collar type ownership group, a la, the NY Giants. They’re going to keep things in-house and play their cards close to the vest. 

All in all, I’ve been mostly pleased with their professionalism and seriousness. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

5 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Thats us. General Paton's MO.

Good grief. Did George Paton beat you up in elementary school or something? 

George has made mistakes, some big ones, and I’ve been vocal about them, but he’s also a very well respected football man throughout the league.

He and Sean, from what I’ve been told by an insider, have a good working relationship and are on the same page even though it’s Sean, at least tacitly, with final-say. My friend compared it to the Lynch/Shanahan arrangement in SF - Sean tells George what he wants, George makes it happen. 

[grizmo78]

I'll give the unpopular opinion that I'm not ready to give up on George Paton yet. He has made some big mistakes, mostly the Russ trade and contract, but he has also shown why he was highly sought out as well. We have had basically no draft picks (yes partly his doing) and yet we have hit on multiple players in the mid to late round. His first draft is a good example of what he can do with a full draft class. Surtain, Javonte, Meinerz, Browning, Sterns and Johnathan Cooper have all been starters or high value depth. 

He should never have been the top of the chain to make organizational decisions and he has made those mistakes as well, but that isn't the GMs role anymore either. In our current structure, the GM is responsible for acquisitions in Free Agency, Trades, and the Draft and he has shown he is more than capable in making that happen. Like AAA said, his responsibility is to make what Sean wants to happen and he can do that. 

This team is not talented right now. That much is obvious. I wish there was a magical solution that we have all thought up until now (QB away, Coach away, etc.) but it is so clear that we are not a lottery ticket away from competing. We need to give Sean and George time to turn this around and I think they're both the right people for the job but its going to to take 2-3 years. Even Kyle Shanahan who we all would have loved to have coaching this team had a terrible record his first 2 years in SF. They were 6-10 then 4-12 and lost multiple games 10-30+ with the 20th and 21st ranked offense in points scored. Lets give Sean a few years to turn around the culture of this team and hopefully by the time we're competitive and have some A+ talent from having a few 1st round draft picks, VJ will be long gone. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by grizmo78