Week 11 GDT: Raiders (5-5) @ Dolphins (6-3) - Who's hungry for sashimi?

[BackinBlack]

the fact the front office tried to bring carr back kinda shows they realized the Fd up... . . i know a lot hate carr, but is it really that tough to admit it was a mistake lol. 

our D playing lights out, and QB is holding us back massively. were a bottom 5ish O, and weve been bottom qb play lol

[jpaulthe1st]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

we saved 5 mil this season, and you accredited it to 3 players.
Carr at 35 vs Jimmy at 25 + 5 to Carr. 

Did you read the part where I said Jimmy was a terrible signing? 

[Tank4Drake]

8 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Just enough would have us at 7-3 lol 

6-4 at best... might of beat the Steelers. Still might be 5-5, just with some closer games. 

Still would be bounced out in the Wildcard Round if we made it and once again keep Carr because he showed "just enough" and then right back to 6-10 wins next year. It's an endless cycle with Carr. 

[ronjon1990]

35 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

I agree with this assessment. The #1 quality you want in a HC is to instill a winning mentality and culture. I’m not ready to crown AP but based on the 3 game sample size he’s got this team believing they can compete with any team on any given Sunday which is a major step forward. 

My biggest concern is whether or not he can assemble a high quality staff around him. I’m sure PG would stay on as DC (which is a good thing imo) but I’m not confident he will be able to get a high quality OC and I’m not sold on BH beyond this year. 

100%. 

AP should he the front runner for the job right now and probably should remain in that spot at the end of the year unless the wheels totally fall off. He's earned that. 

But under no circumstances should our HC search be a one man race. 

[BackinBlack]

Just now, jpaulthe1st said:

Did you read the part where I said Jimmy was a terrible signing? 

i did and I agree. 
just saying cant say the money went to epps, spillane and van rotten... it basically went to epps. 
but not even sure with how much we mved money around with jimmy truthfully. 

I think at first it saved the 5mil, but now thinking after the restructures, it prob saved a lot more... but will hurt us next year now. 

[Jeremy408]

4 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Thats a bit premature for me. 

Look, every win obviously counts for something. I'd certainly factor it in to my search. 

But let's also be real- beating the Giants and Jets, given the state they're in, is 2 very much "gimme" wins. Props to him and not ****ting the bed like his predecessor would have probably done, but going 8-9 puts AP at 5-4, with 2 of those wins coming against horrendous teams. That's just not good enough to make me a believer that he's more than a good rah rah hype guy with a big talk.

Again, I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good candidate to interview because of that, simply that 5-4 with 2 wins coming against Tommy DeVito and Zach Wilson isn't enough to make him the only candidate. 

Beyond that, you know what AP isn't going to do? Develop a QB. Or revitalize a QBs career. Period. Hence, I'm not just gifting him the job outright as that is our #1 priority. 

Is AP tied at the hip to Bo? Bo is in the same boat for me as AP- gotta earn his spot too. And while a limited sample size his track record with QBs isn't great either. I'll go lightly on him as he had Tannehill and Cutler to work with in Miami, but both looked worse under him than other times in their career, and Carr took some steps backwards last year, Jimmy this year, and AOC has been wildly inconsistent thus far. 

Does AP as HC automatically mean Bo as OC? Bo hasn't done anything to develop a QB,  but he's led to some regression from QBs who performed better before and after him and his playcalling is vanilla and sometimes awkwardly nonsensical. Improvement can indeed be made, but I'm sure as heck not just gifting him with the job. 

That's why you interview candidates instead of just outright promoting from within unless they show something really really special and the rest of the staff would essentially remain unchanged. 

What's AP's long term plan? Who does he envision running the side of the ball he knows the least about? Is he willing to fire any of the guys currently on the staff? If not, why not? Does he see anything in particular from them, or is it sentimentality? 

You mentioned Dan Campbell. I love the guy. He also damn near lost his job sticking to Anthony Lynn, and, without Ben Johnson totally revamping Detroit's offense, Dan Campbell wouldn't be Detroiit's HC today. Is Bo Hardegree our very own Ben Johnson? I don't think so. If anything, Dan Campbell is a cautionary tale for the rah rah guys who get caught up too much in their own rah rah. Campbell didn't want to fire Lynn, his job depended on it. And had things not worked out so well with Ben Johnson, Campbell would have still lost his job. 

That's why I'm not.giving him the job without making him compete for it. He can get some.extra credit for a job well enough done as interim. But he shouldn't get to skip the interview because of it. There's too many other questions that arise. 

OC and the development of our QBOTF being number 1. But what about the assistant coaches? They remaining the same? If not, who comes on board?

What about DC? Graham is doing pretty well for now. I've seen it from him before, but whatever. Keep him then. But how tied to AP is he? How tied to Graham is AP? What about Rob Ryan? What about Chris Ash? Everyone staying? If no, who does he get to come in? 

My biggest (and really only) concern is AP's coaching ties, particularly on the side of the ball that seems to need the most work. He's not just an interim HC, he's practically a newbie in terms of NFL coaching circles and doesn't have a particularly robust list of names to call upon. Again, not anything that keeps him from being interviewed, and nothing that keeps him from getting some brownie points with his interview. But questions that absolutely have to be brought up and explored all the same. 

I'm not saying, the Giants and the Jets are big something's but I think ultimately you have to look at his record by the time this season is over(keyword being HIS record not the teams record). We are going to be planning some contenders in the coming weeks. How we fair against those guys should be telling. It's not crowning Pierce but you have to say that there has been a clear change since he's taken over as the head coach. The people play for him. 
 

The question of Bo Hardigree being that offensive coordinator automatically just because Pierce becomes head coach. I don't think that's the case. I think Pierce looked for a guy that allows him to play offense the way he wants it to be played, which is more of a Smash Mouth approach. he hast to develop the quarterback under those circumstances. and then this goes back to the reality that as good as a coaching prospect, Ben Johnson may be he has never developed a quarterback either so we don't know if he can either. Harbaugh has proven he can be a little bit of both, Ben Johnson, and Antonio Pierce, which is why I would welcome him if it came down to that. so worth noting that just because your head coach doesn't mean you automatically have to be someone who develops the quarterback. The first foremost trait that any head coach should have is the ability to lead men and galvanize a locker room to play a standard of football for you every week, regardless of who you play. It's coaches like Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh have been employed for so long regardless of not being known for developing quarterbacks or even being offensive minded at all.
 

Conerning the last paragraph, I I can see him getting hired by another team if we don't hire him regardless of the inexperience. And unless we get someone to definitively better, I could see that being a travesty for us personally.

[BackinBlack]

the best hting about getting rid of carr, is that it led to getting rid of JMD. 

so there is that. thats a big plus. 

[Raiderlife24]

3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

the best hting about getting rid of carr, is that it led to getting rid of JMD. 

so there is that. thats a big plus. 

 

3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

the best hting about getting rid of carr, is that it led to getting rid of JMD. 

so there is that. thats a big plus. 

lol that is something we can agree on 

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, Raiderlife24 said:

Yea that would be good too. Either way we need to address the qb situation hard this offseason. AP is not bad I was being emotional but I would hate to pass up a better coach just to keep AP the team likes him which is good but that only gets you so far. What else does he bring? He would get a chance to bring in a new oc so that might work 

For me, Pierce has the team prepared well, better disciplined and the defence seems to be pared back a bit and playing faster and more aggressive. I don’t believe Pierce is an Xs and Os type of schemer and if we did move forward with him we could conceivably pair him with an Xs and Os guy and offensive mind. 

I’m not going to write off Hardegree yet as he’s only had, what 3 games with a rookie QB and 2 without his starting LT and only quality OLine player so I’d like to see what he has going forward. 

I think it’s all about the balance, if you have a players coach as HC, a guy like Pierce then you need to have the schemer and play designer at OC. O’Connell looks like a solid backup type QB moving forward and he’ll have a chance to put his case forward but I think we should definitely add a high draft pick QB anyway.

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

I'm not saying, the Giants and the Jets are big something's but I think ultimately you have to look at his record by the time this season is over(keyword being HIS record not the teams record). We are going to be planning some contenders in the coming weeks. How we fair against those guys should be telling. It's not crowning Pierce but you have to say that there has been a clear change since he's taken over as the head coach. The people play for him. 
 

The question of Bo Hardigree being that offensive coordinator automatically just because Pierce becomes head coach. I don't think that's the case. I think Pierce looked for a guy that allows him to play offense the way he wants it to be played, which is more of a Smash Mouth approach. he hast to develop the quarterback under those circumstances. and then this goes back to the reality that as good as a coaching prospect, Ben Johnson may be he has never developed a quarterback either so we don't know if he can either. Harbaugh has proven he can be a little bit of both, Ben Johnson, and Antonio Pierce, which is why I would welcome him if it came down to that. so worth noting that just because your head coach doesn't mean you automatically have to be someone who develops the quarterback. The first foremost trait that any head coach should have is the ability to lead men and galvanize a locker room to play a standard of football for you every week, regardless of who you play. It's coaches like Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh have been employed for so long regardless of not being known for developing quarterbacks or even being offensive minded at all.
 

Conerning the last paragraph, I I can see him getting hired by another team if we don't hire him regardless of the inexperience. And unless we get someone to definitively better, I could see that being a travesty for us personally.

They also came from robust coaching trees with a lot of people to hire and followed some very successful HCs in their own right. 

Again, Dan Campbell. The most rah rah of the rah rahs. He'd be jobless right now if not for a stroke of luck with Johnson, no matter how hard the players in Detroit wanted to play for him. 

What you're saying is important. It's not, however, the be-all-end -all of HC jobs. 

AP has the rah rah part down. Now, about the rest...

You mentioned it shouldn't be that hard to upgrade from Bo. In theory, no, it shouldn't be. 

But how many hot names are going to be available that want to come play second fiddle to a rah rah guy with limited contacts and no QBOTF in place? Unfortunately, we gotta make coaching hires prior to the draft, and our offering to other coaches is meager at best. Is a hot shot riser going to come to the Raiders to play under a first time D-minded HC coming off of an interim position knowing that we have no QBOTF, our stud RB may be leaving in FA, our draft positioning isn't a guarantee to land a blue chip QB and our only real trade asset is our star WR? I wouldn't be risking my coaching career on that situation, for sure. 

And, I'll say it now, that isn't an AP problem. He didn't create it. But it is a problem AP is going to have to address if he's our next permanent HC. It's not his problem, but it is 100% the problem he is in. 

[RaisinBran]

50 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Not saying Carr is the guy, but with a top 12ish QB this team is playoff bound. Long term might benefit in going younger but we are wasting our best players primes. 

I would agree with that. We've never had a defense like this while also having top 15 QB play (since our last SB appearance).

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

Thats a bit premature for me. 

Look, every win obviously counts for something. I'd certainly factor it in to my search. 

But let's also be real- beating the Giants and Jets, given the state they're in, is 2 very much "gimme" wins. Props to him and not ****ting the bed like his predecessor would have probably done, but going 8-9 puts AP at 5-4, with 2 of those wins coming against horrendous teams. That's just not good enough to make me a believer that he's more than a good rah rah hype guy with a big talk.

Again, I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good candidate to interview because of that, simply that 5-4 with 2 wins coming against Tommy DeVito and Zach Wilson isn't enough to make him the only candidate. 

Beyond that, you know what AP isn't going to do? Develop a QB. Or revitalize a QBs career. Period. Hence, I'm not just gifting him the job outright as that is our #1 priority. 

Is AP tied at the hip to Bo? Bo is in the same boat for me as AP- gotta earn his spot too. And while a limited sample size his track record with QBs isn't great either. I'll go lightly on him as he had Tannehill and Cutler to work with in Miami, but both looked worse under him than other times in their career, and Carr took some steps backwards last year, Jimmy this year, and AOC has been wildly inconsistent thus far. 

Does AP as HC automatically mean Bo as OC? Bo hasn't done anything to develop a QB,  but he's led to some regression from QBs who performed better before and after him and his playcalling is vanilla and sometimes awkwardly nonsensical. Improvement can indeed be made, but I'm sure as heck not just gifting him with the job. 

That's why you interview candidates instead of just outright promoting from within unless they show something really really special and the rest of the staff would essentially remain unchanged. 

What's AP's long term plan? Who does he envision running the side of the ball he knows the least about? Is he willing to fire any of the guys currently on the staff? If not, why not? Does he see anything in particular from them, or is it sentimentality? 

You mentioned Dan Campbell. I love the guy. He also damn near lost his job sticking to Anthony Lynn, and, without Ben Johnson totally revamping Detroit's offense, Dan Campbell wouldn't be Detroiit's HC today. Is Bo Hardegree our very own Ben Johnson? I don't think so. If anything, Dan Campbell is a cautionary tale for the rah rah guys who get caught up too much in their own rah rah. Campbell didn't want to fire Lynn, his job depended on it. And had things not worked out so well with Ben Johnson, Campbell would have still lost his job. 

That's why I'm not.giving him the job without making him compete for it. He can get some.extra credit for a job well enough done as interim. But he shouldn't get to skip the interview because of it. There's too many other questions that arise. 

OC and the development of our QBOTF being number 1. But what about the assistant coaches? They remaining the same? If not, who comes on board?

What about DC? Graham is doing pretty well for now. I've seen it from him before, but whatever. Keep him then. But how tied to AP is he? How tied to Graham is AP? What about Rob Ryan? What about Chris Ash? Everyone staying? If no, who does he get to come in? 

My biggest (and really only) concern is AP's coaching ties, particularly on the side of the ball that seems to need the most work. He's not just an interim HC, he's practically a newbie in terms of NFL coaching circles and doesn't have a particularly robust list of names to call upon. Again, not anything that keeps him from being interviewed, and nothing that keeps him from getting some brownie points with his interview. But questions that absolutely have to be brought up and explored all the same. 

Well, I mean I think it's all premature talk right now either way lol 

[#1RAIDER FAN]

Good

• Defense played really well. Way better than I expected for sure.
• Hobbs had some plays
• Mayer is getting more involved, he should be a major threat next year
• Team was projected to lose by 2 TDs and kept the game winnable till the last drive

Bad

• Really disappointed in the offensive line again. While QB play has been bad all year, having some run game is the biggest help and its been non existent minus the last 2 weeks.
• Offensive coaching being so conservative when we got turnovers. 

Ugly

• Aiden missed several throws. He held the ball way too long. 
• Offensive line penalties killed some drives. Even the slight miss to DA on the flea flicker had a holding call on it. 
• Just feels likes like this offensive line is a finesse line, they can pass block ok, but really can't dominate any d-line. Can't be a power running team whatsoever. 

[#1RAIDER FAN]

Adding some Good

• Dolphins off a bye and Raiders on the road, not too bad
• In general, this team was competitive on defense. That seems new.

[RaiderX]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

the fact the front office tried to bring carr back kinda shows they realized the Fd up... . . i know a lot hate carr, but is it really that tough to admit it was a mistake lol. 

our D playing lights out, and QB is holding us back massively. were a bottom 5ish O, and weve been bottom qb play lol

He's not lighting it up with the Saints and their superior Defense in a easier division. Everytime I see someone reminisce about Carr being good, I always remember the bad games. You can't tell me he would have won the Niners game or even played half as good as Stidham did last year.

Benching/getting rid of Carr wasn't a mistake, it's always a cycle with him. He'd just be getting franchise records for mediocre play.