Week 11 GDT: Raiders (5-5) @ Dolphins (6-3) - Who's hungry for sashimi?

[big_palooka]

Just now, RaidersAreOne said:

Hmmm...

Not sure I love this. I'd have preferred to get out there and acclimated to the time/climate. 

Meh...I'd get it if they were already on the East Coast playing back to back east coast teams, but otherwise does it really matter? Ballers ball. 

I get the jet lag, but even the 49ers opted to come home from Cleveland before going back to Minnesota to be in their own facilities. Again.... ballers, ball. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

Ok, then let me ask you this:

Then what on earth can we judge him by? His smile? 

He wasn't some patsy assistant to the GM just running to fetch coffee and water. He wasn't  "personal assistant to". He wasn't some mere secretary.

His job function, as I've listed out before elsewhere included (team amd years held in parentheses):

1. The director of college scouting (Chicago 2015 and 2016) is the position that organizes the team’s draft board.

This job requires combing all levels of college football and attributing grades to each player. Typically the director will delegate the scouting duties amongst a small staff responsible for certain regions of the country (Assistant Coordinator of Pro and College Scouting, Denver 2008 and 2009) 

The tasks are not limited to evaluating the physical talents of college players, as directors are also responsible for doing background checks on players to gauge their work ethic and to prognosticate any non-football issues that could arise. This requires maintaining relationships with college coaches throughout the country. 

Now, in these two positions, let's look at the track record:

2008 Broncos Draft was pretty ho--hum. Nothing particularly noteworthy. 

2009 Broncos Draft- Knowshon Moreno was a bust, Robert Ayers was highly underwhelming, Alphonso Smith was a bust the Broncos gave up their original 2010 1st for, Darcel McBath was a nobody, Richard Quinn was a nobody, and the rest of the draft were nin-factor day 3 picks. Did Champ Kelly make these picks at the podium himself? No. Did the GM make them without any input from Champ Kelly's recommendations and grades? Almost certainly. 

2015 Chicagi Bears Draft- Kevin White was a bust, Eddie Goldman was pretty good, Adrian Amos is pretty solid, the remainder of the selections were nobody noteworthy. 

2016 Chicago Bears Draft- Leonard Flloyd was sent packing but was a decent enough pick. Cody Whitehair is meh. The rest were JAGs. Nothing noteworthy. 

So in the Drafts he had a role in, he did practically nothing of note, but sure made some whiffs. He's had a hand in choosing selections, and it hasn't been what can be quantified as "good". But because he hasn't "not" had any hand in the draft process, it's fair and perfectly logical to conclude he's not particularly draft savvy. 

2. Job responsibilities include hiring the head coach, building the remainder of the personnel department staff, coordinating the rubric for scouting college prospects and compiling the team's roster in accordance to the NFL’s salary cap.

Clearly, the general manager can’t possibly handle all of these tasks personally. He divvies up the labor amongst his other front office staffers, but the general manager ultimately is accountable for all of the team’s personnel decisions.

As Assistant GM for the Raiders he had a part in compiling the roster, including the Drafts. The job performed hasn't been especially good, and given his ties to McDaniels from years past, there's no reason to believe Champ Kelly was sidelined or had no voice. 

3. As Assistant Director of Player Personnell (Chicago 2017-2021) his main responsibility was grading Draft prospects, advance scouting, and FA. 

2017- Mitchell Trubisky and Adam Shaheen were the Bears picks in the top 100. I'll even give some creditnfor Eddie Jackson and Tarik Cohen as they were close to top 100 picks (112 and 119). 

2018- Roquan Smith was a good pick. James Daniels, Anthony Miller, amd Joel Iyiegbuniwe....not so much. 

2019- David Montgomery and Riley Ridley. One is pretty solid, the other doesn't currently play. 3rd and 4th rounders only, due to the Khalil Mack trade. 

2020- Cole Kmet, Jaylon Johnson- both decent picks. Credit. 

2021- Justin Fields and Teven Jenkins. Oof. By the way, we're looking for QBOTF. Trubisky and Fields are major red flag whiffs. 

 

This whole narrative that he's had no hand in drafting whatsoever is utter nonsense being perpetuated by people who deal in copium. The same people who swore Josh changed and Dave was good talker who knew what he was doing.

Sorry, that's nonsense. It takes but a few minutes and clicks to research Champ Kelly's past, duties, and history. When you hire someone, you look at their resume- top to bottom. Champ Kelly's isn't particularly strong nor impressive and decidedly not without hand in some pretty major draft whiffs.

Again, if not his past, what are we allowed to judge his job performance on? Or is your position to gift the job to someone without any scrutiny whatsoever? Guys like Palooka and Justwinning will sit here and argue that the guy had no role in drafting- and that simply isn't true regardless of how much they want to try and pretend it is. I mean, for God's sake, it's literally in writing that it isn't true. They can accuse me of hating just to hate all day long if they want to, they did the same for another couple of guys who had bad track records and had no idea what they were doing. It took Palooka over a year to sort of understand the fundamental difference between being a HC and an OC for crying out loud. 

I don't make quick, unreasonable, unresearched, uninformed decisions on people. Unlike some notable detractors in here, I'll take the time to learn before running my mouth based on hype and hyperbole. I'd lay out pages worth of rationale for my criticisms of McDaniels, Zeigler, Graham, Kelly. Guys like Palooka won't. They'll use Twitter logic and write a quick bit of unsubstantiated nonsense that, as proven with me having to explain the difference between a HC and OC as well as Palooka's now disproven theory (to those capable of reading comprehension) regarding Champ Kelly's hand in Drafts, are little more than uninformed swipes and attempts to "be right"- something I'm sure he's desperate to be after coming hard after anyone who dared criticize McDaniels or the Patriot Way until everyone else started doing it. 

As for Ed Dodds, we could say hyped candidate and flavor of the week. But he spent a long time with Seattle around very successful regimes. 

Beyond that, he's been the Colts Asst. GM since 2017. A perfect job? Nope. That Wentz trade is a black mark for everyone. But in general, the Colts have been pretty rock solid with drafting and FA. Just as Champ Kelly has his fingerprints on picks and signings, so too do guys like Dodds and Agnew in Detroit. To answer your question about him- what Dodds has done in his career as an NFL FO guy is far more impressive than Champ Kelly's. Look it up. The job done by the crew up in Seattle and the job done in Indianapolis despite the Andrew Luck surprise retirement and QB revolving door warrants a look from NFL teams for a full time GM position. 

For what it's worth Dodds isn't even my favorite candidate. He was just a name thrown around as far as I cared- a name being thrown around by the media and parrotted by fans. I'd give him a shout, sure, but not as my first choice. That still beats Champ Kelly by a mile, who has had his hands in some terrible Drafts, signings, and roster constructions- including our own. 

 

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

1. And as soon as that was no longer the popular opinion, you weren't willing to stand by your assertions. Classic lack of confidence and conviction. 

2. He's had talent in the past and didn't get much out of it, and what he did get was never sustained or consistent. Yet we supposedly have improved across the board despite not, you know, actually improving. 

3. As if Champ Kelly has never been involved with drafting and was but a mere paper pusher- which, factually, is incorrect despite your adamant arguments to the contrary. 

4. No, I used your words against you. Rather, I use your lack thereof as you've never once provided any rational basis for the many defenses you have come to. That is fanboyism.

I asked you to provide a real reason for your full throated support of Josh McDaniels inight of his quantifiable job history. You gave some crap about the Way needing time and his prowess as a playcaller, ignoring every shred of evidence linking that prowess to Belichick running the grand show and Tom Brady being the GOAT. 

I asked you to provide a real reason for your full throated support of Patrick Graham in light of his quantifiable job history. You gave me the patented Pat Graham Respectomete, ignoring every shred of evidence showing a guy who has routinely followed Patriot guys around and failed upwards. 

Now, I ask what Champ Kelly has ever done to warrant the job. You can't come up with anything substantive other than "Well, he's already here" and some falsehoods about his track record having no hand in drafting. 

I call you a fanboy, because you are until you decide not to be- usually when it's time to save face (weird, being as you say it's my ego that can't handle a forum of strangers). You do a lot of challenging other people's critiques, but never provide your own or anything supporting your own assertions other than unquantifiable feelings and "not wanting more change". You reject logic and have begun to straight up deny easily provable facts. You blatantly ignore statistical evidence and history to prop yourself up as some paragon of Raider support. You accuse other posters of being "fake fans" or "needing to be right", yet you routinely refuse to provide anything substantive to any argument you make. You go out of your way to pick a debate about McDaniels, Graham, Kelly- and yet you refuse to actually provide anything tangible in support of them. You will not (and I'm beginning to sincerely believe cannot) provide any rational basis for your convictions despite your repeated attempts to drum up or start some sort of asinine dialog with posters who don't agree with you. So, yeah, you are a fanboy...and worse, you're a fanboy who can't even explain why you're a fanboy other than attempting to portray some weird sense of elevated fandom by fanboying just to fanboy while accusing others of "hating just to hate" like it makes you seem like a more knowledgeable, sincere, true fan. 

Maybe if you bothered actually, I don't know, researching anything before running your mouth, I wouldn't call you a fanboy. Maybe if you bothered to provide anything beyond hopes and feelings while criticizing others' posts, I wouldn't call you a hack. But you haven't, and, given that you probably can't, I will gladly continue to accuse you of homerism and being a fanboy any time you try and pick an argument while showing up not even empty handed, but with falsehoods and platitudes. 

 

 

Imagine being so insecure you take the time to type 1800 words to try to justify your position on something you are completely wrong about which absolutely nobody will care to read.

Hey @ronjon1990 Has Champ Kelly every drafted a player before? It's a one word answer. 

 

 

 

[ronjon1990]

31 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

 

 

 

Imagine being so insecure you take the time to type 1800 words to try to justify your position on something you are completely wrong about which absolutely nobody will care to read.

Hey @ronjon1990 Has Champ Kelly every drafted a player before? It's a one word answer. 

 

 

 

Like I said, I take my time. 

But, hey, continue showing that you're a moron without a viable response. It helps me pass the time. 👌

Hey @big_palooka, do you even know what Champ Kelly's job duties were? Do you know the difference between a Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator? Do you know your head from your ***? It's a one word answer. 

@Styrian Raider, and this is why some people should be totally disregarded in terms of their opinion. Notice that he doesn't actually provide any opinion, just sophomoric attacks? See how he admits to not even caring to read answers to his questions? Dude's opinion isn't evem worthless, it's simply nonexistent other than a limpdick attempt to troll. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by ronjon1990

[bucksavage1]

Practice is three hours earlier this week

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, bucksavage1 said:

Practice is three hours earlier this week

Just earlier, not longer right? They need to be well rested for Miami's speed. 

[SimonGruber]

9 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Like I said, I take my time. 

But, hey, continue showing that you're a moron without a viable response. It helps me pass the time. 👌

Hey @big_palooka, do you even know what Champ Kelly's job duties were? Do you know the difference between a Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator? Do you know your head from your ***? It's a one word answer. 

@Styrian Raider, and this is why some people should be totally disregarded in terms of their opinion. Notice that he doesn't actually provide any opinion, just sophomoric attacks? See how he admits to not even caring to read answers to his questions? Dude's opinion isn't evem worthless, it's simply nonexistent other than a limpdick attempt to troll. 

I mean RJ to a degree I gotta agree with BP. You stay writing novels on your posts lol. I’m not saying you don’t know anything for the record I can see your passionate about your position on topics 

[Geezy]

I’ll be in Miami this week, I’m sure I’ll be hurting at a 10am start time on the East coast lol 

[SimonGruber]

Just now, Geezy said:

I’ll be in Miami this week, I’m sure I’ll be hurting at a 10am start time on the East coast lol 

I’m Jealous I’ve always wanted an authentic Cuban Sandwich. 

[Geezy]

7 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

I’m Jealous I’ve always wanted an authentic Cuban Sandwich. 

Never been, so I’m excited. Especially after showing some life last two weeks. 

[Styrian Raider]

17 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

I’m Jealous I’ve always wanted an authentic Cuban Sandwich. 

What is an cuban Sandwich?

[Nightmare]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Hmmm...

Not sure I love this. I'd have preferred to get out there and acclimated to the time/climate. 

We haven’t been good on the east coast in about 500 years, so I get the hesitance from that POV. Climate shouldn’t really be an issue though, as our players practice in the Vegas heat every day - I appreciate the humidity difference in Miami, we’re hardly a cold weather team needing to adjust to that.

Maybe the players are feeling comfortable practicing in their own facilities just now.

Also, the cynical part of me thinks it’ll probably all be irrelevant anyway…

[SimonGruber]

29 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said:

What is a cuban Sandwich?

Ham, roasted pork, swiss , pickles and mustard on some special bread pressed like a panini I believe.

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Hmmm...

Not sure I love this. I'd have preferred to get out there and acclimated to the time/climate. 

First bad coaching decision that he's made. Seems to be getting overzealous for the players

[big_palooka]

53 minutes ago, Geezy said:

I’ll be in Miami this week, I’m sure I’ll be hurting at a 10am start time on the East coast lol 

Be safe out there man. Miami is a blast.

[big_palooka]

57 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

I’m Jealous I’ve always wanted an authentic Cuban Sandwich. 

Where do you live my friend?

They get no better than in Miami too. A medianoche with a cuban coffee after. I'm jealous too. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by big_palooka