Humble_Beast Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 hours ago, goldfishwars said: Teams needing investments/upgrades at tackle: Arizona Cincinnati Cleveland Dallas Green Bay Houston Kansas City (?) LA Chargers New England New Orleans NY Giants (Evan Neal blows) NY Jets Philadelphia (Eagles tend to replace cornerstones ahead of time) Pittsburgh San Francisco Tennessee Washington Teams needing investments/upgrades at guard: Arizona Carolina Detroit (Glasgow and Jackson are free agents) Jacksonville Miami New England NY Giants Philadelphia Seattle Tampa Bay Tennessee Teams needing investments/upgrades at Center: Carolina Chicago Jacksonville LA Chargers Miami Pittsburgh Seattle Tamp Bay Tennessee Any I've missed? Raiders going need guards. They started a 34 year old at RG, and probably going convert their lg to center 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 hours ago, goldfishwars said: Teams needing investments/upgrades at tackle: Arizona Cincinnati Cleveland Dallas Green Bay Houston Kansas City (?) LA Chargers New England New Orleans NY Giants (Evan Neal blows) NY Jets Philadelphia (Eagles tend to replace cornerstones ahead of time) Pittsburgh San Francisco Tennessee Washington Teams needing investments/upgrades at guard: Arizona Carolina Detroit (Glasgow and Jackson are free agents) Jacksonville Miami New England NY Giants Philadelphia Seattle Tampa Bay Tennessee Teams needing investments/upgrades at Center: Carolina Chicago Jacksonville LA Chargers Miami Pittsburgh Seattle Tamp Bay Tennessee Any I've missed? Dallas needs a LT only and likely a new C with Biadasz a FA and not a great one. If JPJ is there, could see him being the guy for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 2/4/2024 at 1:12 PM, G said: WHERE's the BEEF?!? Look at these guys and the depth...Senior Bowl just ended and the combine will move these around but before all that here's where PFF and Fanspeak had these guys ranked overall as the top 15 Tackles when ranking their ratings. Ht/Wt using PFF at the moment before combine 1) Alt 6'8 322lbs PFF 5/ FS 4 2) Fashanu 6'6 319lbs PFF 9/ FS 6 3) Fuaga 6'6 334lbs PFF 12/ FS 17 5) Lathum 6'6 335lbs 17/23 4) Mims 6'7 340lbs 23/13 7/8) Morgan 6'6 320lbs 27/35 7/8) Guyton 6'7 327lbs 33/29 6) Fautanu 6'4 317lbs 36/19 12) Amegadjie 6'5 318lbs 42/74 9) Barton 6'5 314lbs 45/33 10) Paul 6'7 315lbs 50/48 11) Suamataia 6'6 315lbs 58/42 14) Gonclaves 6'6 330lbs 105/106 15) Puni 6'5 320lbs 109/111 as a G 13) Fisher 6'6 312lbs 121/ 54 But how many of these guys are NFL LTs and how many are just RT/G at the next level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 19 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: But how many of these guys are NFL LTs and how many are just RT/G at the next level? I think there are 3-4 LTs in that list. Most of the rest are RT only or moving to OG. A very deep draft in RT (IMHO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, goldfishwars said: Teams needing investments/upgrades at tackle: Arizona Cincinnati Cleveland Dallas Green Bay Houston Kansas City (?) LA Chargers New England New Orleans NY Giants (Evan Neal blows) NY Jets Philadelphia (Eagles tend to replace cornerstones ahead of time) Pittsburgh San Francisco Tennessee Washington Teams needing investments/upgrades at guard: Arizona Carolina Detroit (Glasgow and Jackson are free agents) Jacksonville Miami New England NY Giants Philadelphia Seattle Tampa Bay Tennessee Teams needing investments/upgrades at Center: Carolina Chicago Jacksonville LA Chargers Miami Pittsburgh Seattle Tamp Bay Tennessee Any I've missed? I'm not even confident in exactly what Jacksonville needs on the OLine. There are a lot of moving parts and complete unknowns. Plus a bunch of guys who are maybes but also really unreliable. Starting from the inside out makes sense though. A great C would be awesome. The Tackle spots are...ambiguous. Walker Little is good but he's always hurt. Cam Robinson is mediocre but also always hurt and very expensive. Harrison is well...i guess he's gotta be okay based on the investment. Not sure though. But i'll give him time. 1 hour ago, Daniel said: Hot take: Walter Rouse has better tape against Texas than Tyler Guyton does. Fight me. I don't think Guyton's appeal is really about "the tape" at all tbh. So yeah, probably a lot of guys have better tape against Texas than he does. His whole deal is like...moldable clay. With superb natural athletic traits for the position. It's where...i wouldn't be surprised to see somebody look at Guyton and say..."look, we're gonna be overhauling so much technique anyway...let's make him a LT". I'd like to see a lot more in how he moves that way, as sometimes guys just aren't as natural flipping...but if it's anything like the way he moves at RT, just do it. You're building up a raw talent anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: But how many of these guys are NFL LTs and how many are just RT/G at the next level? As great as this tackle class is, this is something I was actually talking about recently. It's pretty short on the traditional left tackle. I will qualify that by saying I know that both sides demand, to a degree, the same thing, and that it varies by scheme, but... The only top end guys I see and think are easy left tackles are Alt and Fashanu. Morgan is built like that too, but I think he's firmly in the second tier. After that there are some guys as well, but we're just talking depth at this point. I think Walter Rouse and Javon Foster have the left tackle traits, but again, depth. They aren't even on the list. Mims is built like a right tackle, but I think he could easily shift to the left side. Has all the traits you want. But I think Fuaga, Latham, Guyton, and Fisher are right tackles. Maybe they could move over, but their traits are more traditional in a right tackle, so I wouldn't want to depend on it. Paul and Suimataia too, but I honestly think they just kind of suck as prospects in general, so I don't want them on either side. Fautanu and Barton are guards. The others I don't really know anything about, but those look like right tackle/guard weights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, goldfishwars said: Teams needing investments/upgrades at tackle: Arizona Cincinnati Cleveland Dallas Green Bay Houston Kansas City (?) LA Chargers New England New Orleans NY Giants (Evan Neal blows) NY Jets Philadelphia (Eagles tend to replace cornerstones ahead of time) Pittsburgh San Francisco Tennessee Washington Teams needing investments/upgrades at guard: Arizona Carolina Detroit (Glasgow and Jackson are free agents) Jacksonville Miami New England NY Giants Philadelphia Seattle Tampa Bay Tennessee Teams needing investments/upgrades at Center: Carolina Chicago Jacksonville LA Chargers Miami Pittsburgh Seattle Tamp Bay Tennessee Any I've missed? Jags could be looking for Tackle. Cam Robinson could be moved saving like 17 million(4 million dead) Little could be playing LG LT or RT. Little has had snaps at all 3 spots. I think he's more comfortable at LT then any others. RT would likely be his 2nd most comfortable. Harrison could be playing LT or RT(he was practically a college career LT that moves to RT and did solid pass pro wise. The only guard I'm pretty sure makes the roster is Cooper Hodges. Played relatively well in the preseason and was thought to have earned a spot but suffered a knee injury and IR all year. Other then him I wouldn't be surprised to see them move on from some. M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 13 minutes ago, Daniel said: As great as this tackle class is, this is something I was actually talking about recently. It's pretty short on the traditional left tackle. I will qualify that by saying I know that both sides demand, to a degree, the same thing, and that it varies by scheme, but... The only top end guys I see and think are easy left tackles are Alt and Fashanu. Morgan is built like that too, but I think he's firmly in the second tier. After that there are some guys as well, but we're just talking depth at this point. I think Walter Rouse and Javon Foster have the left tackle traits, but again, depth. They aren't even on the list. Mims is built like a right tackle, but I think he could easily shift to the left side. Has all the traits you want. But I think Fuaga, Latham, Guyton, and Fisher are right tackles. Maybe they could move over, but their traits are more traditional in a right tackle, so I wouldn't want to depend on it. Paul and Suimataia too, but I honestly think they just kind of suck as prospects in general, so I don't want them on either side. Fautanu and Barton are guards. The others I don't really know anything about, but those look like right tackle/guard weights. So in a scenario where you're the Cowboys - which prospects project to be a better LT than Tyler Smith (current LG, 2022 LT Prospect) and at what point do you just slide Smith over to replace Tyron and bring in a new interior OLman? I feel like there are only maybe 2 guys in the 1st round that can do it, and then I'd rather have JPJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 24 minutes ago, Daniel said: As great as this tackle class is, this is something I was actually talking about recently. It's pretty short on the traditional left tackle. I will qualify that by saying I know that both sides demand, to a degree, the same thing, and that it varies by scheme, but... The only top end guys I see and think are easy left tackles are Alt and Fashanu. Morgan is built like that too, but I think he's firmly in the second tier. After that there are some guys as well, but we're just talking depth at this point. I think Walter Rouse and Javon Foster have the left tackle traits, but again, depth. They aren't even on the list. Mims is built like a right tackle, but I think he could easily shift to the left side. Has all the traits you want. But I think Fuaga, Latham, Guyton, and Fisher are right tackles. Maybe they could move over, but their traits are more traditional in a right tackle, so I wouldn't want to depend on it. Paul and Suimataia too, but I honestly think they just kind of suck as prospects in general, so I don't want them on either side. Fautanu and Barton are guards. The others I don't really know anything about, but those look like right tackle/guard weights. I think this is definitely an interesting trend in this class. There really aren't many clear LTs. A lot of classes have more, but most of them don't pan out. This class feels like a lot of them are just unabashedly RTs, or actually even just IOL guys. That's what makes Guyton interesting to me. And why i was surprised or disappointed i didn't get to see him taking a bunch of LT snaps in those practice reps. Not to see how well he does per se...but just to see if he's capable of kicking as comfortably the other way 'round. He's got the traits to be a LT and he's in that weird "raw" model that you're going to overhaul his game anyway. If he can move just as naturally at LT, that's worth so much more to a team and gets him drafted a heck of a lot higher. Just treat him like a Jordan Mailata project. Big guy coming from a different sport/position who moves super well and has a buttload of natural play strength. Though maybe Guyton and his agent know he can't move as easily the other way, and would rather it just remain a mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 18 minutes ago, LinderFournette said: Jags could be looking for Tackle. Cam Robinson could be moved saving like 17 million(4 million dead) Little could be playing LG LT or RT. Little has had snaps at all 3 spots. I think he's more comfortable at LT then any others. RT would likely be his 2nd most comfortable. Harrison could be playing LT or RT(he was practically a college career LT that moves to RT and did solid pass pro wise. The only guard I'm pretty sure makes the roster is Cooper Hodges. Played relatively well in the preseason and was thought to have earned a spot but suffered a knee injury and IR all year. Other then him I wouldn't be surprised to see them move on from some. M Jaguars really are just...ambiguity abounds. The one constant is that...pretty much any OLineman who is actually a top tier starter, would improve the line somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 19 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: So in a scenario where you're the Cowboys - which prospects project to be a better LT than Tyler Smith (current LG, 2022 LT Prospect) and at what point do you just slide Smith over to replace Tyron and bring in a new interior OLman? I feel like there are only maybe 2 guys in the 1st round that can do it, and then I'd rather have JPJ No idea. It's been a while since I was watching Smith's tape, but IIRC, I had a low first round grade on him, and thought he could play tackle. I think the only ones I would take thinking they'd do a better job in this draft are Alt, Fashanu, and Mims. Now, Fuaga could be in that conversation if he shows speed at the combine, but I don't think that's him. Of course, if you're the Cowboys, I think you can take a bunch of these tweeners and just say hey, if they don't look like the answer, slide Smith over. But I don't watch enough of the Cowboys to know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Good year to need a center: Jackson Powers-Johnson - G/C Zach Frazier - C Graham Barton - G/C/T Christian Haynes - G (played some C at Senior Bowl) Dominick Puni - T (excelled at both G and C at Senior Bowl) Cooper Beebe G/T (teams wanted to see him at Center at SB according to Dane Brugler) Sedrick Van Pran - C Mason McCormick - G/C Beaux Limmer - C Delmar Glaze - G/C/T Charles Turner - C Tanor Bortolini - C Drake Nugent - C 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techbert Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 17 hours ago, MaddHatter said: Dallas needs a LT only and likely a new C with Biadasz a FA and not a great one. If JPJ is there, could see him being the guy for sure. I disagree. They have an old LT and RG and a RT that is no longer reliable either in health or technique as he is currently being told to use, and a need at C even if Biadasz is re-signed. So a need everywhere except Tyler Smith. They do not need to get all 4 this year, but they need to get that ball rolling, and fast. So JPJ or a tackle in round 1 makes a lot of sense to me, but they better not stop there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 25 minutes ago, Techbert said: I disagree. They have an old LT and RG and a RT that is no longer reliable either in health or technique as he is currently being told to use, and a need at C even if Biadasz is re-signed. So a need everywhere except Tyler Smith. They do not need to get all 4 this year, but they need to get that ball rolling, and fast. So JPJ or a tackle in round 1 makes a lot of sense to me, but they better not stop there. I think we can both agree on the following: Steele, as average as he is, just signed a 5yr contract, so he's not going anywhere anytime soon. We might move on from him in 2026, but he's our starting RT for the next two years more than likely. Zack Martin, while maybe not the elite G he once was, is still a Top 10-15 G in the NFL and has a fully guaranteed contract for 2024, so he's also not going anywhere this year. I imagine they let Biadasz walk like they did Conner and replace him either in FA or the draft. Tyler Smith is a Top 10 G and can play 4 different spots on our OL - he's a long term guy we won't let get away. Tyron Smith is a FA and while not the elite lockdown LT he once was, still finished Top 5 in the NFL for OT's. He's a bit slower out of his stance, has given up a few more sacks to speed guys, but is still someone I see them resigning to a 2-3 year deal and let him finish his career out in Dallas. If for some reason they don't, then you either draft a LT or you slide Smith over and replace the G spot. I also would concede that you can never draft enough guys in the trenches - our motto in the DC Forum is early and often, but I don't think we take a guy who is purely a RT in the first round when there are a dozen other guys who would see playing time sooner (year 1) and be potentially higher BPA. I would also point out that we have guys we've been developing like TJ Bass, Josh Ball, Asim Richards, and Chuma Edoga who have all shown good potential, though not enough game film to truly know (only the coaches are going to have a pulse on their development based on what they're seeing in practices against our starting DL). So while I agree that if we draft JPJ or a LT in Round 1, we shouldn't stop there, I wouldn't spend a ton of draft capital early (rounds 2 and 3) when we have needs at ILB, FS, potentially CB, RB and WR. We have lots of holes to fill this offseason - won't know how that plays out till after FA, but I've always been one to focus on BPA and fit over need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.