NateDawg Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 ^^^ Can’t even say “I want Carlton Davis over Bradley Chubb now” in less than a paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosko1616 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Why can’t we just draft Darnold and Barkely then trade up with our multiple picks to get Davis. I like both him and Jackson. But I still think he’ll be available in the 20’s. Not because of talent but I think there’s an abundance of other players who will go before him potentially 5 QBs. Maybe 6. If someone falls in love with Rudolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, NateDawg said: ^^^ Can’t even say “I want Carlton Davis over Bradley Chubb now” in less than a paragraph. FF Problems: When you're gesturing to the post directly above yours but your post was put on a new page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioG Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I know Saquon Barkley has all the physical attributes at RB but how would you guys rate his vision. Is it elite or on par with a player we can get at the top of the 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I wouldn't go as far as MC as taking Carlton Davis over Bradley Chubb, but he is dead on in the sense that Davis is a stud. I personally still like Denzel Ward better but Carlton Davis is right there neck and neck. And to bosko and the many others like him I have seen say Ward, and now Davis, will be there in the 20s are just not seeing it. Teams have drafted far lesser talents are corner much higher for the last 5-8 years because lock down corners can change games. I would wager a great deal neither Ward or Davis make it to #20. I believe both a superior prospects to Eli Apple 10 Vernon Hargreaves 11 Trae Waynes 11 Kevin Johnson 16 Justin Gilbert 8 Kyle Fuller 14 Dee Milliner 9 D.J. Hayden 12 Morris Claiborne 6 Stephon Gilmore 10 On par with Marshon Lattimore 11 I personally only see 6 CB prospects better than Ward and Davis since 1997 and all those guys were flat out freaks. Shaun Springs in 1997, Charles Woodson in 1998 and Champ Bailey in 1999 to end one hell of an era of dominant college corner prospects. Then we didn't see the likes of that until 2011 with Patrick Peterson and then in 2015 Marcus Peters(Fall only to #18 even not playing his last year due to getting kicked off team and a slew of other bad off the field issues) and then the following year with Jalen Ramsey. 2014 last time 3 CB didn't go Top 20 2009 last time 2 CB didn't go Top 20 I would say the Top 2 CBs in this draft will safely be locked into the Top 20 picks and both could go Top 8 IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, TheeRealDeal said: I wouldn't go as far as MC as taking Carlton Davis over Bradley Chubb, but he is dead on in the sense that Davis is a stud. I personally still like Denzel Ward better but Carlton Davis is right there neck and neck. And to bosko and the many others like him I have seen say Ward, and now Davis, will be there in the 20s are just not seeing it. Teams have drafted far lesser talents are corner much higher for the last 5-8 years because lock down corners can change games. I would wager a great deal neither Ward or Davis make it to #20. I believe both a superior prospects to Eli Apple 10 Vernon Hargreaves 11 Trae Waynes 11 Kevin Johnson 16 Justin Gilbert 8 Kyle Fuller 14 Dee Milliner 9 D.J. Hayden 12 Morris Claiborne 6 Stephon Gilmore 10 On par with Marshon Lattimore 11 I personally only see 6 CB prospects better than Ward and Davis since 1997 and all those guys were flat out freaks. Shaun Springs in 1997, Charles Woodson in 1998 and Champ Bailey in 1999 to end one hell of an era of dominant college corner prospects. Then we didn't see the likes of that until 2011 with Patrick Peterson and then in 2015 Marcus Peters(Fall only to #18 even not playing his last year due to getting kicked off team and a slew of other bad off the field issues) and then the following year with Jalen Ramsey. 2014 last time 3 CB didn't go Top 20 2009 last time 2 CB didn't go Top 20 I would say the Top 2 CBs in this draft will safely be locked into the Top 20 picks and both could go Top 8 IMO. Interesting. What about Josh Johnson? Is he also top 20? And Jaire? Those are my clear top-tier #1 corners. I'd love a trade down from 4 but don't wanna miss out if we go down as far as Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, TheeRealDeal said: I wouldn't go as far as MC as taking Carlton Davis over Bradley Chubb, but he is dead on in the sense that Davis is a stud. I personally still like Denzel Ward better but Carlton Davis is right there neck and neck. And to bosko and the many others like him I have seen say Ward, and now Davis, will be there in the 20s are just not seeing it. Teams have drafted far lesser talents are corner much higher for the last 5-8 years because lock down corners can change games. I would wager a great deal neither Ward or Davis make it to #20. I believe both a superior prospects to Eli Apple 10 Vernon Hargreaves 11 Trae Waynes 11 Kevin Johnson 16 Justin Gilbert 8 Kyle Fuller 14 Dee Milliner 9 D.J. Hayden 12 Morris Claiborne 6 Stephon Gilmore 10 On par with Marshon Lattimore 11 I personally only see 6 CB prospects better than Ward and Davis since 1997 and all those guys were flat out freaks. Shaun Springs in 1997, Charles Woodson in 1998 and Champ Bailey in 1999 to end one hell of an era of dominant college corner prospects. Then we didn't see the likes of that until 2011 with Patrick Peterson and then in 2015 Marcus Peters(Fall only to #18 even not playing his last year due to getting kicked off team and a slew of other bad off the field issues) and then the following year with Jalen Ramsey. 2014 last time 3 CB didn't go Top 20 2009 last time 2 CB didn't go Top 20 I would say the Top 2 CBs in this draft will safely be locked into the Top 20 picks and both could go Top 8 IMO. Great stuff. Wow that paints the whole picture right there. Hargreaves and Waynes at 11 despite their limitations. Indeed, Joshua Jackson, Carlton Davis, and Denzel Ward will all be pushed up the board and likely selected in the 7-15 range. Guaranteed. That's especially true when one considers the available talent this year and how it lines up with what are thought to be the premium positions; that is, the most important positional groups on a roster. The most important positional groups (premium positions) in order of importance (arguably) according to most personnel people are: 1. QB/passer 2. LT/OT/pass protector 3. DE/pass rusher, 4. CB/pass defender 5. WR/pass receiver -------------------------------- Non-premium positons: Guards, Centers, RBs, TEs, LBs, DTs and Safeties are all positions that most personnel execs and scouts believe they can get productive impact starters outside of the 1st round. It's only in rare circumstances for exceptional talents that players from those positions go high up in the draft. However, in every draft the premium 5 positions (i.e.,the one's typically thought to influence the success or failure of a QB the most) always go high and are pushed up the board. ------------------------------ Elite Talent/ Top Half of the 1st Round Talent By Positional Group: Looking at the available elite prospect talent pool at premium and nonpremium positions this year suggests that the CBs won't last long at all. Top of the 1st Talent By Position: 1. QB/passer (3-4 prospects - Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen/Lamar Jackson) 2. LT/OT (1-2 prospects - Kolton Miller, Mike McGlinchey ***Scout fam believes Orlando Brown w/ his issues against speed in pass pro & Connor Williams likely being a guard are draft media hype and likely not really considered top tier elite prospects...I agree) 3. DE (1 prospect- Bradley Chubb; Harold Landry and Arden Key are no longer considered top of the round talent for various reasons) 4. CBs (3 prospects - Joshua Jackson, Carlton Davis, Denzel Ward) 5. WR (1-2 prospects - Calvin Ridley, Courtland Sutton) 6. RB (1 prospect- Saquon Barkley) 7. OG (1 prospect - Quinton Nelson) 8. C (No top of the round prospects - PPL love Billy Price but Cs don't go that high) 9. TE (No elite top of the round prospects - most are believed to be later in round 1 or round 2) 10. LB (No elite top of the round prospects - people love Roquan Smith but w/ his limitations he's more of a Jarrad Davis type that will go later 1st round and be loved than a Luke Kuechly type at the top) 11.DT (1 prospect- Vita Vae - could go high if a 34 team is up there, Maurice Hurst is a favorite in mock drafts but not according to many scouts) 12. FS (No top of the round prospects _ 13. SS (2 prospects - Minkah Fitzpatrick, Derwin James) ----------------------------- In total that gives us 13-17 prospects and even taking into account how teams boards change and shape up between now and April it's likely that at worst the CBs go somewhere between the 1st and 13th/17th pick but given the talent of the CBs compared to talent at other postions it's likely that the CBs get pushed up to the 7-12 range. They won't be there at the end of round 1 and there's a scenario that the top 3 CBs will be off the board by pick 12. If we want one of the top guys, we can only trade down a few spots from 4 to guarantee that we get our guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Great stuff. Wow that paints the whole picture right there. Hargreaves and Waynes at 11 despite their limitations. Indeed, Joshua Jackson, Carlton Davis, and Denzel Ward will all be pushed up the board and likely selected in the 7-15 range. Guaranteed. That's especially true when one considers the available talent this year and how it lines up with what are thought to be the premium positions; that is, the most important positional groups on a roster. The most important positional groups (premium positions) in order of importance (arguably) according to most personnel people are: 1. QB/passer 2. LT/OT/pass protector 3. DE/pass rusher, 4. CB/pass defender 5. WR/pass receiver -------------------------------- Non-premium positons: Guards, Centers, RBs, TEs, LBs, DTs and Safeties are all positions that most personnel execs and scout believe they can get productive impact starters outside of the 1st round. It's only in rare circumstances for exceptional talents that players from those positions go high up in the draft. However, in every draft the premium 5 positions (i.e.,the one's typically thought to influence the success or failure of a QB the most) always go high and are pushed up the board. ------------------------------ Elite Talent/ Top Half of the 1st Round Talent By Positional Group: Looking at the available elite prospect talent pool at premium and nonpremium positions this year suggests that the CBs won't last long at all. Top of the 1st Talent By Position: 1. QB/passer (3-4 prospects - Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen/Lamar Jackson) 2. LT/OT (2 prospects - Kolton Miller, Mike McGlinchey ***Scout fam believe Orlando Brown w/ his issues against speed in pass pro & Connor Williams likely being a guard are draft media hype and likely not really considered top tier elite prospects...I agree) 3. DE (1 prospect- Bradley Chubb; Harold Landry and Arden Key are no longer considered top of the round talent for various reasons) 4. CBs (3 prospects - Joshua Jackson, Carlton Davis, Denzel Ward) 5. WR (1-2 prospects - Calvin Ridley, Courtland Sutton) 6. RB (1 prospect- Saquon Barkley) 7. OG (1 prospect - Quinton Nelson) 8. C (No top of the round prospects - PPL love Billy Price but Cs don't go that high) 9. TE (No elite top of the round prospects - most are believed to be later in round 1 or round 2OJ Howard type be 10. LB (No elite top of the round prospects - people love Roquan Smith but w/ his limitations he's more of a Jarrad Davis type that will go later 1st round and be loved than a Luke Kuechly type at the top) 11.DT (1 prospect- Vita Vae - could go high if a 34 team is up there, Maurice Hurst is a favorite in mock drafts but not according to many scouts) 12. FS (No top of the round prospects _ 13. SS (2 prospects - Minkah Fitzpatrick, Derwin James) ----------------------------- In total that gives us 13-17 prospects and even taking into account how teams boards change and shape up between now and April it's likely that at worst the CBs go somewhere between the 1st and 13th/17th pick but given the talent of the CBs compared to talent at other postions it's likely that the CBs get pushed up to the 7-12 range. They won't be there at the end of round 1 and there's a scenario that the top 3 CBs will be off the board by pick 12. If we want one of the top guys, we can only trade down a few spots from 4 to guarantee that we get our guy. I believe Safeties have moved into the premium position since the league changed to a passing era, pre dating that, Safeties never went top 10, but they do today, indicating their rise in importance, just as WR's have surpassed RB's as a premium position, otherwise I know you are right on in your assessment and people need to realize few GM's will ever take a secondary position top 10, never mind top 5 unless it is a draft year that is totally weak and they are struggling to find any worthy 1st round talent!!! It is also a fact that in any draft year, there is rarely more than a dozen true first round talents, after that you are looking at 2nd round prospects getting pushed up into round 1 and when you get to the back end of round 1, you can be looking at 3rd round talent getting push up as well. When scouts talk about a deep draft, it means that perhaps there are as many as 14 true 1st round talents, but the rest of the 1st round is all 2nd round talents up to about the 45th pick. That is what constitutes a deep draft and why teams are very reluctant to trade out of the top 12 picks, if there are even 12 true 1st round talents. In many drafts there can be as low as 3, 6, 8 or 10 1st round talents and GM's react accordingly!!! Because CB's are a premium position, they will get pushed up draft boards, but I struggle to see one going more than 7-10 if that high, it will depend in the end, on how the scouts and GM's rate this draft overall. Fitzpatrick will likely go top 7 which again indicates that Safeties have moved up in importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, ohiogenius said: I know Saquon Barkley has all the physical attributes at RB but how would you guys rate his vision. Is it elite or on par with a player we can get at the top of the 2nd I'd prefer to wait till round 2 for a RB, but we will know a lot more about Barkley and even Guice when the Combine takes place. Hard to rate him completely at this stage of the process, but he seems to be on his way to at least a top 10 pick, but maybe Guice goes there as well, just have to wait and see!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Iamcanadian said: I'd prefer to wait till round 2 for a RB, but we will know a lot more about Barkley and even Guice when the Combine takes place. Hard to rate him completely at this stage of the process, but he seems to be on his way to at least a top 10 pick, but maybe Guice goes there as well, just have to wait and see!!! Guice is nice but he is no where near the level of Barkley. He is a solid runner but doesn’t catch or block anywhere near the level of barkley. You don’t hear scouts calling Guice the 2nd best offensive playmaker in the draft but you hear them calling Barkley the best overall offensive playmaker. If Barkley was just the best back, I would have reservations about drafting him so high but he is pretty much being labeled the best offensive playmaker in the draft. Browns can’t pass up on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Interesting discussion but to me hoping qbs go 1 ,2,3, then we could either draft barkley or trade and get whats left of fitz,chubb,and barkley then we would have two number 1s two number2s for next next years draft with dorsey being able to evaluate talent for the whole year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, mtmmike said: Interesting discussion but to me hoping qbs go 1 ,2,3, then we could either draft barkley or trade and get whats left of fitz,chubb,and barkley then we would have two number 1s two number2s for next next years draft with dorsey being able to evaluate talent for the whole year I wouldn't mind that scenario, but I also wouldn't mind: 1. Browns: Darnold 2. Giants: NOT a QB and NOT Barkley 3. Colts: Chubb/OL 4. Browns: With the consensus #2 QB still available, there are MULTIPLE suitors in the Top 6-10 that covet Rosen. The Browns set off a bidding war between Denver at 5 and the Jets at 6 to come up and get their QB. Then, the Browns at either 5 OR 6 still get Barkley or the best position player remaining, plus a HUGE haul of draft picks. I fear that if QB's go 1, 2, and 3 that the #4 overall pick won't have much trade value if you're looking to trade it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'm curious with the talk of CB's, from those who watch and understand film better than I do, how is Tavarus McFadden as a prospect? I know he was VERY highly regarded at the beginning of the year, then with the struggles of FSU he has dropped a lot. Anyone have some insight on why that was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I wouldn't mind that scenario, but I also wouldn't mind: 1. Browns: Darnold 2. Giants: NOT a QB and NOT Barkley 3. Colts: Chubb/OL 4. Browns: With the consensus #2 QB still available, there are MULTIPLE suitors in the Top 6-10 that covet Rosen. The Browns set off a bidding war between Denver at 5 and the Jets at 6 to come up and get their QB. Then, the Browns at either 5 OR 6 still get Barkley or the best position player remaining, plus a HUGE haul of draft picks. I fear that if QB's go 1, 2, and 3 that the #4 overall pick won't have much trade value if you're looking to trade it. interesting thought but if new york does not want rosen the trade market for him would go thru the roof right then. But in my senario the broncos would have to surrender almost all there key picks to stop the jets from jumping them denver NEEDS to win in the next 3 years or it is over with for them von miller at that time will be north of 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 11 hours ago, NudeTayne said: Interesting. What about Josh Johnson? Is he also top 20? And Jaire? Those are my clear top-tier #1 corners. I'd love a trade down from 4 but don't wanna miss out if we go down as far as Buffalo. If you mean Josh Jackson from Iowa I have not watched him outside of the Ohio State game yet and I was only watching the game no prospects. I watched Jaire Alexander a few times and was less than impressed. Arm chair scouting is a hobby of mine but like most people I have other hobbies and even more important other responsibilities, and that simply limits my time for arm chair scouting. If after so much time I am simply not seeing anything I typically don't go back and watch anymore. I have put Jaire Alexander in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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