1.25 - Jordan Morgan [OT; Arizona]

[VegasDan]

2 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

Yeah, GB's history of success fielding OT's with "short" arms speaks for itself.  No real reason for Gute to view Morgan's arm length as a big red flag the way many draftniks want to.  It's not a positive to be sure, but the negative impact is way overblown IMO.

Bulaga 33 1/4
Bak 34
Tom 33 1/4
---
Morgan 32 7/8

A rumor that I just made up is that Packers will stuff Morgan's gloves with 3/8" of prosthesis material to get him up to the requisite 33 1/4" reach.

[Packerraymond]

Important to show the bad too. I don't see the arms outside being a flaw, in fact as @AlexGreen#20 said Green Bay teaches it that way, its the "Green Bay's OL always hold" thing we hear every year. The key to that is the perfect hand placement, if you get those hands right where the shoulder pad connect to the chest pads, you'll never get called for holding. Not only that, but there's usually a joint in the actual construction of the pad there that pushes into the defenders body and limits his movement and arm range of motion (at least there was in 2012 when my old *** was playing). 

That being said, you cannot drop your arms down to your hips like Morgan does in these two clips, the end result will almost always be you ended up on your *** or your QB ending up on his.

[skibrett15]

again, about the only thing you can complain with this pick is should we have been the team to trade with KC?

Quite possible Dallas takes Morgan right after us at that slot though... and then we get Guyton?  Morgan seems much higher on our board than Guyton reading the tea leaves of this draft.

[ReasonablySober]

4 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

I'd bet good money when Tom becomes a pro-bowl RT they wouldn't consider moving him. If I'm Tom, I'd ask to be traded rather than move inside. 

What makes you think they won't move him this offseason? 

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, skibrett15 said:

again, about the only thing you can complain with this pick is should we have been the team to trade with KC?

Quite possible Dallas takes Morgan right after us at that slot though... and then we get Guyton?  Morgan seems much higher on our board than Guyton reading the tea leaves of this draft.

No we should not have traded with KC. Dallas and TB swooped in and took OL right after us. 

[beekay414]

I'm not worried about his current tendencies. We'll clean it up. Ball of clay with his best football ahead of him. 

IGWT baby. Today is the day we make our money. 

[AlexGreen#20]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Important to show the bad too. I don't see the arms outside being a flaw, in fact as @AlexGreen#20 said Green Bay teaches it that way, its the "Green Bay's OL always hold" thing we hear every year. The key to that is the perfect hand placement, if you get those hands right where the shoulder pad connect to the chest pads, you'll never get called for holding. Not only that, but there's usually a joint in the actual construction of the pad there that pushes into the defenders body and limits his movement and arm range of motion (at least there was in 2012 when my old *** was playing). 

That being said, you cannot drop your arms down to your hips like Morgan does in these two clips, the end result will almost always be you ended up on your *** or your QB ending up on his.

It's also just a structural weakness of the play style. Long rushers who can convert speed to power are the enemy of the late hands style we utilize. They're the hardest to anchor down against. 

You counter it by giving your Tackles more runway to cede ground and control the forward momentum. Why the Senior Bowl is running 1991 line splits I don't know. 

It's also an experience play. As you see it more, you get better at lifting up on the tricep/forearm to kill the forward momentum as the rusher tries to one arm stab you. It'll come with reps. 

[CWood21]

7 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

again, about the only thing you can complain with this pick is should we have been the team to trade with KC?

Quite possible Dallas takes Morgan right after us at that slot though... and then we get Guyton?  Morgan seems much higher on our board than Guyton reading the tea leaves of this draft.

Pretty sure Jerry Jones already admitted that Morgan was one of the guys he was considering at 24.

[packfanfb]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Important to show the bad too. I don't see the arms outside being a flaw, in fact as @AlexGreen#20 said Green Bay teaches it that way, its the "Green Bay's OL always hold" thing we hear every year. The key to that is the perfect hand placement, if you get those hands right where the shoulder pad connect to the chest pads, you'll never get called for holding. Not only that, but there's usually a joint in the actual construction of the pad there that pushes into the defenders body and limits his movement and arm range of motion (at least there was in 2012 when my old *** was playing). 

That being said, you cannot drop your arms down to your hips like Morgan does in these two clips, the end result will almost always be you ended up on your *** or your QB ending up on his.

Yea, we all need to keep in mind he was drafted at 25, not 10. There are flaws. However, we know that typically the best play is to draft the guy whose issues that need to be fixed are actually fixable (like hands/technique) versus what can't be taught. 

[packfanfb]

11 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Important to show the bad too. I don't see the arms outside being a flaw, in fact as @AlexGreen#20 said Green Bay teaches it that way, its the "Green Bay's OL always hold" thing we hear every year. The key to that is the perfect hand placement, if you get those hands right where the shoulder pad connect to the chest pads, you'll never get called for holding. Not only that, but there's usually a joint in the actual construction of the pad there that pushes into the defenders body and limits his movement and arm range of motion (at least there was in 2012 when my old *** was playing). 

That being said, you cannot drop your arms down to your hips like Morgan does in these two clips, the end result will almost always be you ended up on your *** or your QB ending up on his.

Also of note, Booker can ball man. He's just a f*ck up, otherwise he'd probably be getting a lot more buzz. 

[ThatJerkDave]

For what it is worth, in every mock sim that I ran, if I didn't take an OL in the first, I really felt like I was chasing them later.  And Morgan was going between 20 and 40 just about every time.  I think I would have gone with Guyton, but this pick makes all kinds of sense.  He also checks every box that we always look for, so we really shouldn't be surprised either.

I think with Morgan we have a pretty good set of talent at the OT position.  If Morgan wins the LT spot, Walker is experienced at both tackle positions, still young and cheap.  We also have a lottery ticket with Dillard.  And we have the huge trio of Jones, Tenuta, and Telfort with some time in the program.  

Everyone is down on Newman, but he has game experience at guard and RT.  He is a little expensive, but the Packers have 20 million in cap space right now.  Get another guard later to compete, and I think we are good to go.  

[Isherwood]

8 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Pretty sure Jerry Jones already admitted that Morgan was one of the guys he was considering at 24.

Spoon confirmed that Dallas and Baltimore both had interest, fwiw

[ThatJerkDave]

18 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

A rumor that I just made up is that Packers will stuff Morgan's gloves with 3/8" of prosthesis material to get him up to the requisite 33 1/4" reach.

Keep up that rumor mill, Dan...  What I just made up is that the Packers are in contact with renowned doctor, Victor Frankenstein on a technique that could give Morgan a 52 inch reach.  

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 hour ago, Scoremore said:

Still don't understand it.  We saw how good Tom was at RT.  Why on earth would they mess with it?  A lot easier to find a C than OT.  Tom just shut guys down.  When the wheel isn't broke don't fix it.  Pretty sure we'll still grab an IOL today.  One that can compete at C and RG.   Just wondering about letting Meyers compete at RG.  He's an average C which is pretty dissappointing given his draft status.  Maybe he could be a stud G.  

Think of it more as wheel balancing - add a little here, take away a little there, so everything is in synch.

It simply doesn't matter that Tom is a good RT, IF THE NEW GUY AT RT IS ALSO A GOOD GUY THERE, while Tom then upgrades the center position. If the RT level of play gets downgraded with Tom at Center, then that is a whole different ballgame. I get that you like what you have, but the line could get better, just as it could get worse. Wouldn't mind seeing this tried out in camp.

Edited April 26 by OneTwoSixFive

[AlexGreen#20]

5 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Think of it more as wheel balancing - add a little here, take away a little there, so everything is in synch.

It simply doesn't matter that Tom is a good RT, IF THE NEW GUY AT RT IS ALSO A GOOD GUY THERE, while Tom then upgrades the center position. If the RT level of play gets downgraded with Tom at Center, then that is a whole different ballgame. I get that you like what you have, but the line could get better, just as it could get worse. Wouldn't mind seeing this tried out in camp.

Please don't move very good Tackles inside.